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"What a cool word! Still laugh/chuckle about an article in Omni magazine from the 70's which showed scientific evidence that owls not only have the smallest brains per size than all birds, but it is also the dumbest of all birds.

 

For most, if they are told that they're as wise as an owl, they'd think it was compliment.

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The way is simple. The wise and sagacious often appear stupid and crazy to others.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

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Even René Descartes said, "All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once."

 

Too bad he was only speaking about 5 of the senses.

 

Whatever the Six Consciousness' project is delusion,...and irrelevant. Neither Lao Tzu or Sakyamuni pointed to the Tao or Dharma as irrelevent and powerless projections, but as a means, within the Six Consciousness' to show that the Six Consciousness' are irrelevant and powerless.

 

The original comment on owls was brought up specifically for those attached to the notion that owls are special, magical birds embued with powers of wisdom and able to guide Seekers through the underworld as if one were in a Harry Potter film.

 

The Tao does not Come and Go,...A Tathagata does not Come and Go,...any thing that Comes and Goes, like owls, the Six Senses, etc., are barriers veiling the truth.

 

There is no primordial. These "mysterious patterns creating vortices in the substances of the invisible world" are ego delusions invented to make the unknown more palatable for ego, and those who believe in the magical powers of owls.

 

The Buddha said to Ananda, "It is your perception of false appearances based on external objects which deludes your true nature and has caused you from beginningless time to your present life to recognize a thief as your son, to lose your eternal source, and to undergo the wheel's turning."

 

Or as Ramana Maharshi said, "There is no creation in the state of realization. When one sees the Self, the world is not seen. So see the Self and realize that there has been no creation."

 

There is no primordial. Time is one thing,...like a radio tuner. Just because you are focused on one particular frequency or channel, does not mean there was a beginning, flowing forward towards some end,...all is occurring simultaneously,...and all that is occurring simultaneously is a perceived illusion that those who cling to owls will never realize until they let go of their clinging.

 

V

 

"chaos, supreme unknown, primordial, blend into wuji state"

 

i have noticed descartes is one you frequently quote

http://plato.stanfor...escartes-modal/

 

"the great thing about time is it goes on"

arrows of time

thermodynamic, cosmological, radiative, causal , quantum, psychological

6 arrows of time.

 

another guy that you often quote is david hume, yes?

here is one of his that i like

Referring to the Law of Causality, Hume wrote, "I never asserted so absurd a proposition as that something could arise without a cause."

 

edited to show this enchanting creature

220px-SpottedEagleOwl2539MGEyeLid.jpg

Edited by zerostao

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Absolutely no way!

 

Lao Tzu said, "The Tao gives rise to all form, yet is has no form of its own."

 

The Tao is as the Still, Causeless fulcrum upon which perceived choas and beginnings effect their motion,..but NEVER "blend into Wuji."

 

 

Lao Tzu correctly said, "The Tao gives birth to One. One gives birth to yin and yang. Yin and yang give birth to all things." However, "all thing" are not part of the Tao,...just as no condition can return to the Uncondition from which it was birthed.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Time and space are changing and dissolving, not fixed and real. "

 

Thus, time and space, and all that is perceived in time and space, are not the Tao.

 

Lao Tzu said, "Dualistic thinking is a sickness. Religion is a distortion. Materialism is cruel. Blind spirituality is unreal...."Recognize that eveything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth." Hua Hu Ching, Forty Eight.

 

Lao Tzu said, "the only way to understand [the Tao] is to directly experience it."

 

It is impossible to has a direct experience through the 6 senses,...all experience born of the 6 senses can only be experienced through the conditions of the 6 senses.

 

Your (zerostao) ignorance is typical. For example, you requote Descartes or Hume as if I admire Descartes or Hume,...I could care less about the people I quote,...the quotes I use are about the quotes, not the messenger.

 

Osho mentioned that, "The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. On the contrary, he tries to clean himself of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. He comes to you; you just have to be prepared. You have to be in a right attitude."

 

I enjoy using quotes such as Osho. Most remember him as the guru who received dozens of Rolls Royces from his students, and thus reject any quote by him because they were indoctrinated to respond negatively to people like him, and thus is as a litmus test to see if they are really on the Short Path. A Short Pather looks impersonally at the message, and without predisposed negativity towards the messenger.

 

Very often what others have to say sometimes arouses and opens new ways of seeing or observing. Just because I agree with U.S. President Ulysses Grant for saying that church property should be supported entirely by private contributions to keep church and state forever separate, does not mean going into a debate about the life of Mr. Grant. Quotations, as I use them, are about the message within the quotation, not the profile of the messenger.

 

Quotations and aphorisms can serve as a mentoring device for those who venture into the liminal zone between duality's sciential sentience and the sapiential consciousness of nonduality, in which direct relationships with authentic teachers are often unavailable. Those already within the liminality between fragmented and unfragmented consciousness quickly recognize the difference between an authentic teaching and a false teaching. A false teacher places conditions upon one's experiences, whereas an authentic teacher does not confer about liberation or enlightenment without advancing specific practices that open the way for direct experience.

 

What you (zerostao) do, is hear a quote or anything, and attempt to harmonize it with all your predispositions. I could care less that Lao Tzu purportedly said, "Intellectual knowledge exists in and of the brain. Because the brain is part of the body, which must one day expire, this collection of facts, however large and impressive, will expire as well" But the message is intriguing.

 

Most people see a message, and instantly want to judge the messenger,...and if the messenger is ajudged to be fit under societal standards, than the message is OK. I call that neurosis.

 

V

 

will brb smile.gif "What you (zerostao) do, is hear a quote or anything, and attempt to harmonize it with all your predispositions. " really? and what all am i predisposed to?

Edited by zerostao

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apech , your messages always shine a light. you are on quite the different level. biggrin.gif

and an examination of yorick's skull does give one to wonder. the impossibility of certainty, even.

 

again emerson 'people see only what they are prepared to see" and all perceptions are partial and subjective. and the use of words only gets one so far. the meaning is in the person not from the words.

words are too arbitrary and ambiguous ,abstract. language shapes perception. when we label someone

,like if zerostao is labeled by another forum member as ignorant, this attempts to focus on this one aspect, in this case my typical ignorance and overlooks my other aspects. like my fondness of birds.

and how birds are powerful symbols allowing for thought in the abstract and the hypothetical.

 

i had an idea that this thread would bring up a dane. but my guess was that it would've been neils bohr sleep.gif

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when we label someone ,like if zerostao is labeled by another forum member as ignorant, this attempts to focus on this one aspect, in this case my typical ignorance and overlooks my other aspects. like my fondness of birds. and how birds are powerful symbols allowing for thought in the abstract and the hypothetical.

 

 

Oh woe is zerostao.

 

"The creator of the universe is not a god, but Avidya or ignorance." Buddha.

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Oh woe is zerostao.

 

"The creator of the universe is not a god, but Avidya or ignorance." Buddha.

 

 

why the woe is zerostao? laugh.gif zeros is doing ok. another aspect of zerostao and a few bums already know this , is not to take zerostao too seriously. unless of course i make some grand announcement , like, "i am being serious now" i am a bit mischeivous at times. usually playful. i know your comment about owls was light hearted and comical.

i enjoy the exchange with you Vmarco. the latest quote you have posted is not bad. i understand that if you have had a direct experience or direct experiences, you could not put them into words that would do the experience any justice.

a day like today with all the fragrances of spring in the air , the sunshine and yet a bit chill to the air, crisp, clean. the song birds singing along joyfully. the trees all green. it could be a day like this when one could have such a direct experience.

it is a good day to lighten up and relax be in harmony with tao.

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why the woe is zerostao? it is a good day to lighten up and relax be in harmony with tao.

 

Yes,...always a good to be light and relaxed,...dis-ease manifests disease.

 

If you read the quote being responded to, it should point to the reason behind the response. Although some may assume the term ignorant to be a sort of slight (look Apech, did you see V labeling me), it is only a slight to the Six Senses.

 

"Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace." Dalai Lama

 

Yes,...the comment about owls was light hearted and comical,...yet at the same time meant to be stirring, as in does a belief in owls or anything distract from realizing the Tao?.

 

Any direct experiences I may have are irrelevant. The message is simply an inquiry as to what a direct experience cannot look like. A direct experience cannot be birthed from belief. If some can counter that statement,..and show that a direct experience can occur through the conditions of beliefs, than please share.

 

V

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i take no offense at the ignorant thing. i do not consider it a slight or an insult. just a value judgement of yours about me.

but i think ignorance is widespread and maybe some of us could check their blind spot, and if they did,

they might find some ignorance of their own. for their is a great mystery that has not been unravelled.

and i was just saying that ignorance is not the only aspect of me.

apech is a rather intelligent looking cat and wouldnt have needed me to point out anything to him.

i am not so much of a pointer, really, i never even point at the moon.

i do gaze at it when i do my full moon qigong.

 

i have previously posted:

from the absolute view which is free of spatial and temporal limitations

our understanding of this MUST come intuitively and not logically.

lao tzu has already mentioned before;

"all things are together in action, but i look into their non-action,

for all things are continuously moving, restless, yet each is proceeding

back to it's origin. proceeding back to it's origin means quiescence.

quiescence means being-for -itself. being for itself means the ever- changing

changeless. To understand the ever-changing changeless is to be enlightened"

from chapter 39 and now chapter 14:

It is the same One , past and present, being and non-being,

form and formless.

The One is a unification of duality and multiplicity.

It is the One without opposite. It is infinite and unceasing.

 

The Tao is not merely a concept of a unity of duality. There is also a unity

in multiplicity. A wholeness of the parts.

chapter 11 TTC Lao Tzu says,

"30 spokes joined at the hub.

from their nonbeing

comes the function of the wheel.

 

However the notion of unity or a synthesis of parts into wholeness is still

far short of conveying the deeper meaning of Tao. It is indivisible and it is also

the source from where all duality and multiplicity come.

 

the unity of all harmonies which emanates the all-expanding energy that constantly creates a new universe.

without it nothing that is real can be achieved.

remember lao tzu says "the student of knowledge learns day by day but the student of Tao loses day by day"

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the owl does not always keep its mouth closed. however when it is in flight it is totally silent.

a very unique feature of the owl.

i will empty my jar and wait for you to fill it with suchness.

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Owls are indeed silent stoic creatures, never asking why or when

..only whoo.

 

I think we could all gain some wisdom by being a little more owl like.

 

A wise old owl lived in an oak

The more he saw the less he spoke

The less he spoke the more he heard.

Why can't we all be like that wise old bird?

 

 

and the end of James Fields 'The Owl Critic' one of my favorites :)

 

Just then, with a wink and a sly normal lurch,

The owl, very gravely, got down from his perch,

Walked around, and regarded his fault-finding critic

(Who thought he was stuffed) with a glance analytic,

And then fairly hooted, as if he should say:

"Your learning's at fault this time, anyway:

Don't waste it again on a live bird, I pray.

Edited by thelerner
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Let me do some fun playing-around...

 

owls are wll known by mystics to be able to sense those with magical powers and to see the good and the evil in people.

they have the ability to guide to and thru the underworld.

they can and will unmask those who will seek to take advantage of one's kindness and reveal those hidden motives of those who would disguise their real intentions.

 

My love of owls developed during childhood in a non-rational way. ( I don't know that much about owls, I just love them. ^_^ )

 

Here's one half of my Mayan birth horoscope:

Flint - Mirror of reality. As a struck flint, these persons are the divine sparks of intelligence. Flint's innate abilities are utilized to discriminate emotions from fact. Flint persons stand tireless to protect, defend or cure others by personal sacrifice. By courageously wielding the sword of truth, falsehoods are cut away. Flints, it was said, can receive information on inter-personal troubles or the evil plots of others by reflecting in an obsidian mirror. Their valiant service as warriors of the truth must be impeccable ( and impeckable! :lol: ) or they will experience sufferings of accidents, misunderstandings and gossip.

Edited by Owledge

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Yes,...always a good to be light and relaxed,...dis-ease manifests disease.

 

V

 

OH! Haw... I see what you did there. :lol:

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There is the most awesome vid on youtube of a small owl being petted. Oh my god!(OMG!) It was getting it's head scratched and loving it. (<3)

Post link!!! :D

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Let me do some fun playing-around...

 

 

 

My love of owls developed during childhood in a non-rational way. ( I don't know that much about owls, I just love them. happy.gif )

 

Here's one half of my Mayan birth horoscope:

Flint - Mirror of reality. As a struck flint, these persons are the divine sparks of intelligence. Flint's innate abilities are utilized to discriminate emotions from fact. Flint persons stand tireless to protect, defend or cure others by personal sacrifice. By courageously wielding the sword of truth, falsehoods are cut away. Flints, it was said, can receive information on inter-personal troubles or the evil plots of others by reflecting in an obsidian mirror. Their valiant service as warriors of the truth must be impeccable ( and impeckable! laugh.gif ) or they will experience sufferings of accidents, misunderstandings and gossip.

 

owledge, when i first read your post i was thinking you had alot of NA blood or spirit , then i saw the mayan horoscope thingsmile.gif

none-the-less your connection and resonace with owls is interesting and i wonder about your dreams. (the ones you have while sleeping)

of course dont answer about your dreams here. you looked the the pow wow link i provided?

Owl-Totem-Perch.jpg

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...and i wonder about your dreams. (the ones you have while sleeping)

of course dont answer about your dreams here. you looked the the pow wow link i provided?

Nothing special about my dreams.

 

Which link do you mean?

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There are two owls outside my bedroom window. They are either fighting or having really great sex every night. :ninja:

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