The Gospel of Thomas

[Immortal4life]

The Gospel of Thomas

Video about the Lost Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, which many historians feel contains the oldest content and is historically closer to Jesus than the 4 biblical Gospels are. It is written in the form of simple sayings and parables said by Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas is a closed-door, or secret teaching.To understand it you have to be a part of the lineage of Thomas, you had to be a gnostic. So the academics or researchers of today cannot fully fathom it's meaning-

 

Some people are not aware that there are more Gospels than just the 4 main ones in the modern bible. Most of Jesus' Disciples have a Gospel. One of the most famous that has been found is the Gospel of Thomas, it is especially famous because it was found in it's complete form, and none of the other ones were, just fragments of them.

So the question then becomes which Gospel is the most authentic and the closest to the teachings of the Grandmaster, Jesus Christ. Hardcore Christians don't want to admit that it could be older than their gospels, so they will always point out that the actual physical text we have of the Gospel of Thomas is in fact from hundreds of years after Jesus. However, according to high level scholars like Koester of Harvard, or Elaine Paegels, the content of the Gospel of Thomas is older than the papyrus of it that we have today. Why is that?

Another factor we have to explain and look at now then, is the so called Lost Q document. Since textual criticism had become big in the last century or 2, something new was discovered. Throughout history it was always assumed that Luke and Matthew were derived from Mark, and that Mark was the original and oldest gospel. However, it was discovered that Luke and Matthew share common material that is not found in Mark. How can that be then? It means Luke and Matthew both derived some of the same information from another source, it has never been discovered but scholars have called it the "Q document".

So how does this relate to the Gospel of Thomas you ask? Because it has long been believed by experts in textual criticism that the Q document would have been in the form of sayings, and parables, by Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas is in that format, and contains original information.

The Original source for the teachings of the NT is not found or known by modern scholars, but it is known that it would have been in the form of a collection of saying by Jesus. This Lost original gospel source is known as the Q manuscript

 

The Q document or Q (from the German Quelle, "source") is a postulated lost textual source for the Gospel of Matthew and Gospel of Luke.

The recognition of 19th-century New Testament scholars that Matthew and Luke share much material not found in their generally recognized common source, the Gospel of Mark, has suggested a second common source, termed the Q document. This hypothetical lost text—also called the Q Gospel, the Sayings Gospel Q, the Synoptic Sayings Source, and in the 19th century The Logia—seems most likely to have comprised a collection of Jesus' sayings. Recognizing such a Q document is the essence of the "two-source hypothesis."

The two-source hypothesis is the most widely accepted solution to the synoptic problem posed by textual correspondences between the two gospels, with the Gospel of Mark forming one source, and Q the other.

Since the Gospel of Thomas consists of mostly original material and does not seem to be based on the canonical gospels, it must have been transcribed from an oral tradition. Since the practice of considering oral tradition as authoritative ended during the 1st century, the Gospel of Thomas therefore must have been written before then, perhaps as early as around 40. Since this date precedes the dates of the traditional four gospels, there is some claim that the Gospel of Thomas is or has some connection to the hypothetical Q document—a text (or oral verse) that, with Mark, is postulated to have been a source for the gospels of Matthew and Luke.

The early camp argues that about half of the material in Thomas has no known parallels to the New Testament, and at least some of this material could plausibly be attributed to the historical Jesus, such as saying 42 "Be passers-by".

It is should be noted that Q is almost universally regarded by secular biblical scholars as the most parsimonious explanation for the synoptic problem and is widely regarded to be the earliest written text of Jesus' teachings. It has been hypothesized that Q exists in 3 strata, termed Q1, Q2, and Q3, with the apocalyptic material belonging in Q2 and Q3. Secular biblical scholars have identified 37 sayings that overlap between Thomas and Q, all of which are conjectured to be in either Q1 or Q2 and none of which included the latter, apocalyptic material of Q3. As Thomas does not incorporate material from Q3, it was not aware of Q3 and precedes it. The Q layers of Q1 and Q2 are thought to predate the four gospels. Hence the Gospel of Thomas is thought to be early.

What is historically accurate?

 

 

Modern critical scholars use three criteria to determine what the historical Jesus may have taught: multiple attestations, dissimilarity, and contextual credibility. Many modern scholars believe that the Gospel of Thomas was written independently of the New Testament, and therefore, is a useful guide to historical Jesus research.

By finding those sayings in the Gospel of Thomas that overlap with Q, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, and Paul, scholars feel such sayings represent "multiple attestations" and therefore are more likely to come from a historical Jesus than sayings that are only singly attested, such as the vast majority of the material in John.

It should be noted that information about the historical Jesus itself was not a singular criterion for inclusion into the New Testament Canon. The canonizers chose to include many books that contain neither much information about the historical Jesus nor teachings from the historical Jesus, such as the Epistles and the book of Revelation.

The Gospel of Thomas may have been excluded from the canon of the New Testament because:

* It was deemed heretical.
* It was deemed inauthentic.
* It was unknown to the canonizers.
* It was thought to be superseded by the narrative gospels.
* It belonged to a branch of Christianity outside the circle of Athanasius of Alexandria.

The truth is there are no gospels that perfectly agree without error

 

 

This relationship between Thomas and Jesus is what distinguishes this gospel from the four other books in the Catholic canon. In the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke), Jesus is a wise teacher, prophet or an anointed (christos) leader. The Gospel of John, apart from the Thomas gospel and the synoptic gospels, sees Jesus as a divine heir of the godhead and an object of worship. The events in the John gospel are rearranged and told differently than the other gospels perhaps to support and emphasize this view. In the Thomas gospel, Jesus is a spiritual role model, and he is offering everyone the opportunity to become anointed (a Christ) as he is.

Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Thomas Collection -- Translations and Resources

 

 

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

4. Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live.

For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. [And there is nothing buried that will not be raised.]"

6. His disciples asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"

Jesus said, "Don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed."

7. Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

8. And he said, "The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and easily chose the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes."

11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

13. Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."

Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."

Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth is utterly unable to say what you are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

And he took him, and withdrew, and spoke three sayings to him. When Thomas came back to his friends they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me, and fire will come from the rocks and devour you."

14. Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

When you go into any region and walk about in the countryside, when people take you in, eat what they serve you and heal the sick among them.

After all, what goes into your mouth will not defile you; rather, it's what comes out of your mouth that will defile you."

15. Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father."

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

17. Jesus said, "I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."

18. The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.

Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

19. Jesus said, "Congratulations to the one who came into being before coming into being.

If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you.

For there are five trees in Paradise for you; they do not change, summer or winter, and their leaves do not fall. Whoever knows them will not taste death."

20. The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's kingdom is like."

He said to them, "It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

He said, "They are like little children living in a field that is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Give us back our field.' They take off their clothes in front of them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field to them.

For this reason I say, if the owners of a house know that a thief is coming, they will be on guard before the thief arrives and will not let the thief break into their house (their domain) and steal their possessions.

As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Prepare yourselves with great strength, so the robbers can't find a way to get to you, for the trouble you expect will come.

Let there be among you a person who understands.

When the crop ripened, he came quickly carrying a sickle and harvested it. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

23. Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."

He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

25. Jesus said, "Love your friends like your own soul, protect them like the pupil of your eye."

26. Jesus said, "You see the sliver in your friend's eye, but you don't see the timber in your own eye. When you take the timber out of your own eye, then you will see well enough to remove the sliver from your friend's eye."

27. "If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the (Father's) kingdom. If you do not observe the sabbath as a sabbath you will not see the Father."

28. Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty.

But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

29. Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.

Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."

30. Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one."

31. Jesus said, "No prophet is welcome on his home turf; doctors don't cure those who know them."

32. Jesus said, "A city built on a high hill and fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."

33. Jesus said, "What you will hear in your ear, in the other ear proclaim from your rooftops.

After all, no one lights a lamp and puts it under a basket, nor does one put it in a hidden place. Rather, one puts it on a lampstand so that all who come and go will see its light."

34. Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole."

35. Jesus said, "One can't enter a strong person's house and take it by force without tying his hands. Then one can loot his house."

36. Jesus said, "Do not fret, from morning to evening and from evening to morning, [about your food--what you're going to eat, or about your clothing--] what you are going to wear. [You're much better than the lilies, which neither card nor spin.

As for you, when you have no garment, what will you put on? Who might add to your stature? That very one will give you your garment.]"

37. His disciples said, "When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?"

Jesus said, "When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample then, then [you] will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid."

38. Jesus said, "Often you have desired to hear these sayings that I am speaking to you, and you have no one else from whom to hear them. There will be days when you will seek me and you will not find me."

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

40. Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted apart from the Father. Since it is not strong, it will be pulled up by its root and will perish."

41. Jesus said, "Whoever has something in hand will be given more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little they have."

42. Jesus said, "Be passersby."

43. His disciples said to him, "Who are you to say these things to us?"

"You don't understand who I am from what I say to you.

Rather, you have become like the Judeans, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree."

44. Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."

45. Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorn trees, nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they yield no fruit.

Good persons produce good from what they've stored up; bad persons produce evil from the wickedness they've stored up in their hearts, and say evil things. For from the overflow of the heart they produce evil."

46. Jesus said, "From Adam to John the Baptist, among those born of women, no one is so much greater than John the Baptist that his eyes should not be averted.

But I have said that whoever among you becomes a child will recognize the (Father's) kingdom and will become greater than John."

47. Jesus said, "A person cannot mount two horses or bend two bows.

And a slave cannot serve two masters, otherwise that slave will honor the one and offend the other.

Nobody drinks aged wine and immediately wants to drink young wine. Young wine is not poured into old wineskins, or they might break, and aged wine is not poured into a new wineskin, or it might spoil.

An old patch is not sewn onto a new garment, since it would create a tear."

48. Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in a single house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move from here!' and it will move."

49. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who are alone and chosen, for you will find the kingdom. For you have come from it, and you will return there again."

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.'

If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.'

If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

 

Edited January 18, 2013 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

51. His disciples said to him, "When will the rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?"

 

He said to them, "What you are looking forward to has come, but you don't know it."

 

52. His disciples said to him, "Twenty-four prophets have spoken in Israel, and they all spoke of you."

 

He said to them, "You have disregarded the living one who is in your presence, and have spoken of the dead."

 

53. His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?"

 

He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect."

 

54. Jesus said, "Congratulations to the poor, for to you belongs Heaven's kingdom."

 

55. Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."

 

56. Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy."

 

57 Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a person who has [good] seed. His enemy came during the night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The person did not let the workers pull up the weeds, but said to them, 'No, otherwise you might go to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be conspicuous, and will be pulled up and burned."

 

58. Jesus said, "Congratulations to the person who has toiled and has found life."

 

59. Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."

 

60. He saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb and going to Judea. He said to his disciples, "that person ... around the lamb." They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it." He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has killed it and it has become a carcass."

 

They said, "Otherwise he can't do it."

 

He said to them, "So also with you, seek for yourselves a place for rest, or you might become a carcass and be eaten."

 

61. Jesus said, "Two will recline on a couch; one will die, one will live."

 

Salome said, "Who are you mister? You have climbed onto my couch and eaten from my table as if you are from someone."

 

Jesus said to her, "I am the one who comes from what is whole. I was granted from the things of my Father."

 

"I am your disciple."

 

"For this reason I say, if one is whole, one will be filled with light, but if one is divided, one will be filled with darkness."

 

62. Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those [who are worthy] of [my] mysteries.

 

63 Jesus said, "There was a rich person who had a great deal of money. He said, 'I shall invest my money so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouses with produce, that I may lack nothing.' These were the things he was thinking in his heart, but that very night he died. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

 

64. Jesus said, "A person was receiving guests. When he had prepared the dinner, he sent his slave to invite the guests.

 

The slave went to the first and said to that one, 'My master invites you.' That one said, 'Some merchants owe me money; they are coming to me tonight. I have to go and give them instructions. Please excuse me from dinner.'

 

The slave went to another and said to that one, 'My master has invited you.' That one said to the slave, 'I have bought a house, and I have been called away for a day. I shall have no time.'

 

The slave went to another and said to that one, 'My master invites you.' That one said to the slave, 'My friend is to be married, and I am to arrange the banquet. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me from dinner.'

 

The slave went to another and said to that one, 'My master invites you.' That one said to the slave, 'I have bought an estate, and I am going to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me.'

 

The slave returned and said to his master, 'Those whom you invited to dinner have asked to be excused.' The master said to his slave, 'Go out on the streets and bring back whomever you find to have dinner.'

 

Buyers and merchants [will] not enter the places of my Father."

 

65. He said, "A [...] person owned a vineyard and rented it to some farmers, so they could work it and he could collect its crop from them. He sent his slave so the farmers would give him the vineyard's crop. They grabbed him, beat him, and almost killed him, and the slave returned and told his master. His master said, 'Perhaps he didn't know them.' He sent another slave, and the farmers beat that one as well. Then the master sent his son and said, 'Perhaps they'll show my son some respect.' Because the farmers knew that he was the heir to the vineyard, they grabbed him and killed him. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

 

66. Jesus said, "Show me the stone that the builders rejected: that is the keystone."

 

67. Jesus said, "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking."

 

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

 

69. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who have been persecuted in their hearts: they are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.

 

Congratulations to those who go hungry, so the stomach of the one in want may be filled."

 

70. Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you."

 

71. Jesus said, "I will destroy [this] house, and no one will be able to build it [...]."

 

72. A [person said] to him, "Tell my brothers to divide my father's possessions with me."

 

He said to the person, "Mister, who made me a divider?"

 

He turned to his disciples and said to them, "I'm not a divider, am I?"

 

73. Jesus said, "The crop is huge but the workers are few, so beg the harvest boss to dispatch workers to the fields."

 

74. He said, "Lord, there are many around the drinking trough, but there is nothing in the well."

 

75. Jesus said, "There are many standing at the door, but those who are alone will enter the bridal suite."

 

76. Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself.

 

So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."

 

77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

 

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

 

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

 

78. Jesus said, "Why have you come out to the countryside? To see a reed shaken by the wind? And to see a person dressed in soft clothes, [like your] rulers and your powerful ones? They are dressed in soft clothes, and they cannot understand truth."

 

79. A woman in the crowd said to him, "Lucky are the womb that bore you and the breasts that fed you."

 

He said to [her], "Lucky are those who have heard the word of the Father and have truly kept it. For there will be days when you will say, 'Lucky are the womb that has not conceived and the breasts that have not given milk.'"

 

80. Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered the body, and whoever has discovered the body, of that one the world is not worthy."

 

81. Jesus said, "Let one who has become wealthy reign, and let one who has power renounce <it>."

 

82. Jesus said, "Whoever is near me is near the fire, and whoever is far from me is far from the (Father's) kingdom."

 

83. Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the Father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light."

 

84. Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"

 

85. Jesus said, "Adam came from great power and great wealth, but he was not worthy of you. For had he been worthy, [he would] not [have tasted] death."

 

86. Jesus said, "[Foxes have] their dens and birds have their nests, but human beings have no place to lay down and rest."

 

87. Jesus said, "How miserable is the body that depends on a body, and how miserable is the soul that depends on these two."

 

88. Jesus said, "The messengers and the prophets will come to you and give you what belongs to you. You, in turn, give them what you have, and say to yourselves, 'When will they come and take what belongs to them?'"

 

89. Jesus said, "Why do you wash the outside of the cup? Don't you understand that the one who made the inside is also the one who made the outside?"

 

90. Jesus said, "Come to me, for my yoke is comfortable and my lordship is gentle, and you will find rest for yourselves."

 

91. They said to him, "Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you."

 

He said to them, "You examine the face of heaven and earth, but you have not come to know the one who is in your presence, and you do not know how to examine the present moment."

 

92. Jesus said, "Seek and you will find.

 

In the past, however, I did not tell you the things about which you asked me then. Now I am willing to tell them, but you are not seeking them."

 

93. "Don't give what is holy to dogs, for they might throw them upon the manure pile. Don't throw pearls [to] pigs, or they might ... it [...]."

 

94. Jesus [said], "One who seeks will find, and for [one who knocks] it will be opened."

 

95. [Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

 

96. Jesus [said], "The Father's kingdom is like [a] woman. She took a little leaven, [hid] it in dough, and made it into large loaves of bread. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

 

97. Jesus said, "The [Father's] kingdom is like a woman who was carrying a [jar] full of meal. While she was walking along [a] distant road, the handle of the jar broke and the meal spilled behind her [along] the road. She didn't know it; she hadn't noticed a problem. When she reached her house, she put the jar down and discovered that it was empty."

 

98. Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a person who wanted to kill someone powerful. While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in. Then he killed the powerful one."

 

99. The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside."

 

He said to them, "Those here who do what my Father wants are my brothers and my mother. They are the ones who will enter my Father's kingdom."

 

100. They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "The Roman emperor's people demand taxes from us."

 

He said to them, "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine."

 

101. "Whoever does not hate [father] and mother as I do cannot be my [disciple], and whoever does [not] love [father and] mother as I do cannot be my [disciple]. For my mother [...], but my true [mother] gave me life."

 

102. Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."

 

103. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who know where the rebels are going to attack. [They] can get going, collect their imperial resources, and be prepared before the rebels arrive."

 

104. They said to Jesus, "Come, let us pray today, and let us fast."

 

Jesus said, "What sin have I committed, or how have I been undone? Rather, when the groom leaves the bridal suite, then let people fast and pray."

 

105. Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a whore."

 

106. Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move."

 

107. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine.'"

 

108. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him."

 

109. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a person who had a treasure hidden in his field but did not know it. And [when] he died he left it to his [son]. The son [did] not know about it either. He took over the field and sold it. The buyer went plowing, [discovered] the treasure, and began to lend money at interest to whomever he wished."

 

110. Jesus said, "Let one who has found the world, and has become wealthy, renounce the world."

 

111. Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will roll up in your presence, and whoever is living from the living one will not see death."

 

Does not Jesus say, "Those who have found themselves, of them the world is not worthy"?

 

112. Jesus said, "Damn the flesh that depends on the soul. Damn the soul that depends on the flesh."

 

113. His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

 

"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

 

[saying probably added to the original collection at a later date:]

114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

 

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

 

Going into the world with no possessions or money is very Buddhist

from jesus to christ: the story of the storytellers: the gnostic gospels

Does not such teaching--the identity of the divine and human. the concern with illusion and enlightenment, the founder who is presented not as Lord, but as spiritual guide sound more Eastern than Western? Some scholars have suggested that if the names were changed, the "living Buddha" appropriately could say what the Gospel of Thomas attributes to the living Jesus. Could Hindu or Buddhist tradition have influenced gnosticism?

 

The British scholar of Buddhism, Edward Conze, suggests that it had. He points out that "Buddhists were in contact with the Thomas Christians (that is, Christians who knew and used such writings as the Gospel of Thomas) in South India." Trade routes between the Greco-Roman world and the Far East were opening up at the time when gnosticism flourished (A.D. 80-200); for generations, Buddhist missionaries had been proselytizing in Alexandria.

[Aetherous]

12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?"

 

Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

 

James can clear some things up regarding the Christian path.

[Chang]

It is good to see another You-Tube clip featuring our old friend the Rev.Peter Owen-Jones.

 

He usually has something interesting to say and has an open and enquiring mind.

[Immortal4life]

Your old friend? I discovered him through youtube, he had made a few really cool programs about religion and spirituality.

[Immortal4life]

Library- Early Christian Writings, Apocrypha, Lost Gnostic Gospels, etc.

Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

 

The Lost Gospels

YouTube - The Lost Gospels [2/9]

Youtube - The Lost Gospels [3/9]

YouTube - The Lost Gospels [4/9]

YouTube - The Lost Gospels [6/9]

YouTube - The Lost Gospels [7/9]

YouTube - The Lost Gospels [8/9]

YouTube - The Lost Gospels [9/9]

[Vmarco]

[John Zen]

If only there was some reasonable interpretation to all of these puzzles...

[KoffeeKommando]

The misinformation spewed to Christians today is appalling.

Why are Christians lied to?

This has been going on a *very* long time. The answer? Let Jesus tell ya It's by design.

 

35. Jesus said, "One can't enter a strong person's house and take it by force without tying his hands. Then one can loot his house."

 

Very nice posts on this topic. Made me sign up actually.

This is a very heavy document.

 

 

The Gospel of Thomas undermines most of the main tenents of Christianity.

 

Mainstream "Christians" freak out when you quote anything from this. It actually causes visible mental distress in them. Like a massive "does not compute" moment. Truthful things are powerful.

 

Look at the Gospel Of Thomas...114 sayings.

The Tao...82

 

Simple and to the point. Between those two sources, what else do you need as a human? The collection of "books" chosen for the "bible" seems to me like a hack job and/or misdirection. Obfuscation.

 

As an aside, the real truth of things is probably weirder than we can imagine.

Edited March 19, 2012 by KoffeeKommando

[Thunder_Gooch]

Thank you for this.

 

I believe Jesus was what we would call a taoist immortal as heretical as that may be.

 

The bit about:

 

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

 

114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

 

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

 

Fusing the yin and yang spirits as one, to enter heaven seems right in line along with what Chang, Wang Liping, and others have spoken about having to fuse your yin and yang spirits together to survive death, and how most spirits lose their yang at death and are purely yin beings who wind up being reincarnated.

 

I know that females are blessed with the ability to work with and cultivate yin energy better than any male is.

Edited March 19, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[KoffeeKommando]

Thank you for this.

I believe Jesus was what we would call a taoist immortal as heretical as that may be.

 

This was my gut feeling also from reading both sources.

Heretical does not matter....truth matters.

So called "Christians" need to think about this one:

 

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

Beliefs should be discussed openly.

You can't gloss over bad stuff or put things on pedestals.

Your false assumptions will be put to the test. And *will* fail.

You have to be ok with that. Humility.

The truth will disturb you. But it needs to be accepted.

 

Then there is the topic of active, ongoing deception out there. It's blatant if you know what you are looking at:

 

(5) Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."

Recognize what is in your sight. You need to *understand* what your eyes see. Not just identify.

Cool and most important concept.

That leads us to....

 

(39) Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

That's the kind of people you are dealing with. If they took the keys of knowledge and entered (used them as intended)...they would have not been able to hide the keys. They would have done the right thing and shared the knowledge instead. These people are selfish to the extreme. You need to be a better human than the "leaders".

 

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

 

Lots of incredible concepts dropped in the Gospel Of Thomas.

#3 is the double whammy. Jesus warns you about deceptive humans...then tells you what you need to know point blank.

 

The Kingdom inside of you and outside of you?

Internal/external?

Where have we heard that before? Hmmm.

Internal and external exercises that will bring you to "know yourself"?

And also know your part in the greater scheme of things.....

The man was *on it*.

Edited March 19, 2012 by KoffeeKommando

[Owledge]

@KoffeeKommando

Also very interesting:

 

"44. Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."

 

He says that Father, son, those are just personifications, like idols. The holy spirit is the essence behind all of it. It's not a persona that you can aim your devotion at. It doesn't judge. It's more like a natural law. Like the Tao.

 

 

By the way, there is a very interesting video about gnostic teachings and its similarities with other religions. There might be somewhat narrow-minded judgments, commandments, interpretations in it, but it is very interesting especially regarding Jesus the person vs. Jesus the symbol, because it analyzes the meaning of names in hebrew. Also draws a lot of connections to internal alchemy:

 

Sex: The Secret Gate To Eden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ru4s0TgXvc

[Thunder_Gooch]

deleted because I am afraid it might offend someone lol

Edited March 20, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Immortal4life]

Come on man, dish it. I have never been afraid to offend people, and I'm still here.

[KoffeeKommando]

@ Owledge

 

Precisely! You know...I was going to talk about that topic next. Though it might be "off topic" to this but maybe not.

 

Get this (big post ahead):

 

I was reading various gnostic writings and whatnot and at the same time some things about geometry.

Was doing some "alternative" building using hexagons. Found these connections:

 

Sacred Geometry 101E: Metatron's Cube - YouTube - http://bit.ly/GAIICo

 

Special bonus was towards the end of his video. He discusses where ideas come from. Ideas always precede reality. They are just floating around in minds...then get turned into 3D reality at some later time.

More on that in just a sec.

The Metatron's Cube drawing (according to legend) was given to someone by a "scribe of god". The drawing is obviously a product of advanced "intelligence" or shall we say "a consciousness". It shows the 5 Platonic solids in 3D "hologram" form....and others are implied from it (fractal concept embedded). Purely brilliant.

He posits that this is just a sample of "god's blueprints".

 

Amy Edmonson was a assistant to Buckminster Fuller in the 80's. She wrote a book explaining some of his math and ideas. He was a very odd "turned-on" individual. Some of his motivation came from "religious" experiences.

 

Here is a copy of her book:

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html

Zipped copy: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/afullerex.zip

 

Fuller decided that through sufficient observation of both naturally occurring and experimentally derived phenomena without reference to a specific framework, nature's own coordinate system might emerge. He sought a body of generalizations describing the way patterns are organized and able to cohere over time."

Bucky's grade-school skepticism was thus the beginning of a lifelong search for "nature's coordinate system.

 

The entire Chapter 1 is a goldmine. You begin to see where this is all heading.

 

The ultimate manifestation of nature's coordinate system is "Universe." Fuller deliberately omits the article, for "the universe" implies the possible existence of more than one—just as we do not say "the God" but rather simply "God." Fuller capitalizes "Universe" for the same reason: Universe is everything; it's all there is.

 

Universe is thus the total web spun by all generalized principles and their interaction. As rules without exception, they are necessarily "interaccommodative." Fuller's terminology takes some getting used to: "eternally regenerative Universe" is an ongoing event governed by "the omni-interaccommodative complex of unique and eternal generalized principles." The principle of synergy, described in Chapter 3, accounts for the incalculable complexity of the whole web despite thorough comprehension of many of the separate parts. And finally, "God is the unknowable totality of generalized principles.

 

There is much more. You have to watch the Metatron's Cube video...then with that information in mind read 'A Fuller Explanation"

 

Basically, the gnostics said that the god of the bible was a "lesser" being operating in our "3D" universe.

There was a seperation of sorts. Outside of our 3D "physical" universe is the "consciousness" or as Fuller said "the unknowable totality of generalized principles". This consciousness created everything (outside itself, if there is an "outside") from pure thought. The Metatron's Cube drawing shows some of the building blocks that our reality is made from. Fuller went further and explained this mathematically and otherwise.

 

Chapter 2 "Nature Isn't Using Pi" - "Fake bubbles" led to further contemplation about p. Nature is always associating in simple whole rational numbers, thought Bucky: H20, never HpO. Irrational numbers do not show up in chemical combinations of atoms and molecules. Clearly, nature employs "one coordinate, omnirational, mensuration system."

 

If nature's lack of employment of p isn't news, why does Bucky persist? Why use his own considerable—but still finite—energy to lecture tirelessly on the subject for half a century? The answer lies in the fact that our education and popular awareness fall short of the mark; Fuller felt that society did not sufficiently emphasize this discrepancy between theoretical games and real structures. We introduce "solids" to school children long before they learn the real story about energy-event reality. If humanity is to feel comfortable with science, argues Fuller, education must present accurate models in the first place. The message behind the bubble's story is: why not tell the truth from the beginning? He calls for widespread recognition of discrete energy events, a reality that cannot be perceived by human senses.

 

Here's where he starts tying into Metatron's Cube:

This minimum system was given the name tetrahedron (four sides) by the Greeks, after the four triangular faces created by the set of four vertices and their six edges (Fig. 3-1). Fuller deplored the Greek nomenclature, which refers exclusively to the number of faces—the very elements that don't exist. ("There are no solids, no continuous surfaces... only energy event complexes [and] relationships." (2) ) However, he did not fully develop a satisfactory alternative, so we shall have to work with the time-honored convention. What we lose in accurate description of physical reality, we gain in clarity and consistency.

 

The tetrahedron shows up frequently in this exploration. This and other recurring patterns seem coincidental or magical at first, but soon come to be anticipated—endless demonstrations of the order inherent in space. The process is typical of synergetics: we stumble into the tetrahedron by asking the most elementary question—what is the simplest way to enclose space?—and later, everywhere we look, there it is again, an inescapable consequence of a spectrum of geometric procedures.

 

The straightforward logic of our first encounter with the tetrahedron drives us to wonder if it displays any other unique properties. It turns out to be a reliable sort of minimum module or "quantum," as Fuller points out in myriad ways. Not the least impressive involves counting the edges of all regular, semiregular, and triangulated geodesic polyhedra (from the simple cube to the more complex rhombic dodecahedron to the vast array of geodesics.) The resulting numbers are all multiples of the tetrahedron's six. We can therefore take apart any polyhedral system in these categories and reassemble its edges into some number of complete tetrahedra. Even though we are not yet familiar with these other polyhedra, the observation stands as a representative example of the surprising whole-number relationships which make our investigation increasingly alluring.

 

So...basically...Fuller validates the Metatron's Cube drawing/symbolism. The tetrahedron is the minimum system or "building" block that everything (in our 3D universe) is made from. Fuller said that everything is actually a bunch of energy events...not actual "physical" dumb stuff as they teach in school. Puzzle pieces and clues.

 

---------------------- Little detour---------

( 2, 4, and 6 are very important. 3 is also. 2+1=3..2x3=6 a cube is 6 sided. A tetrahedron (made from 3 "edged" events)has 4 sides, 2 of them put together makes the points of a cube (there's the 4 and 2 relating to 6 again). "A tetrahedron is a triangular pyramid, and the regular tetrahedron is self-dual."...it's a copy of itself therefore it's the simplest building block. Why the mention of a trinity in some religion? 2+1=3...2 "real" personifications...one spirit...scary eh?)

 

Also:

 

Thirty spokes connect to the wheel's hub;yet, it is the centre hole that makes it useful.

Clay is shaped into a vessel;yet, it is the emptiness within that makes it useful.

Doors and windows are cut for a room;yet it is the space where there is nothing that makes it useful.

Therefore, though advantage comes from what is;usefulness comes from what is not.

 

Maybe 2,4,6 are the "what is" or "advantage". 1,3,5 etc. are the "what is not" or "usefulness"? This also talks about space where there is nothing..a useful concept in geometry/conceptual thinking.

 

In my opinion...none of these things are manmade concepts. They came from "somewhere else" a long long time ago.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

How does this relate to consciousness? Why did Charles Gilchrist mention this in his video?

Everything we see in this universe is literally the manifestation of pure thought energy. We can somewhat describe it using math. But we cannot describe the *original* source. "It" is beyond our human comprehension.

 

The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

 

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.The name is the mother of the ten thousand things.

 

Send your desires away and you will see the mystery.Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation.

 

As these two come forth they differ in name.Yet at their source they are the same.

This source is called a mystery.

Darkness within darkness, the gateway to all mystery.

 

 

Fuller wanted to know what was behind the manifestation. He was able to glimpse a bit of the mystery and describe it to us. The "scribe of god" that dropped off the Metatron's Cube drawing was showing us a little bit of the mystery too. The "conciousness", "nameless", "eternal Tao" cannot talk directly with us. So there are created lesser beings (messengers...above us, yet below the "nameless") that sometimes drop in to communicate in ways we can understand. The gnostics tried to explain some of this. It's complicated as hell.

 

But what do you expect? Think creating a Universe from pure intention and thought would go easy?

According to the gnostics lots of stuff went wrong. But the Tao tells us that's ok too. It's all part of what happens.

 

So..our reality is made up of a bunch of energy events (building blocks) arranged in specific ways like incredible multifaced Legos. And it all came from pure thought (that we cannot interact fully with till we revert to energy ourselves). When we at least align ourselves with these original thoughts, it's good. We "go with the flow", not against it. Tuning into the *reality* of our reality.

 

Religion has halfassedly tried to explain these things. But some "pharisees and scribes" have hidden what they found. In direct contradiction with "the rules". They want to set up their own little kingdoms for fame and fortune here on Earth. Jesus and the Tao warn about this many times.

 

Like I said, reality is weirder and more fantastic that we can imagine.

Movies like The Matrix, Dark City, and the like are pale imitations of what is really going on.

True reality is so mindblowing that you can't handle it in any shape or form. It's "outside" of what we can imagine.

 

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

 

This means the eternal name *cannot* be named by us. We can only grope around and see the manifestations. Those can be named by science etc. etc.

 

But...this is not a problem. Relax desires and striving.

Don't worry about what's going on so much.

This is the way to join the winning team.

Edited March 20, 2012 by KoffeeKommando

[John Zen]

 

By the way, there is a very interesting video about gnostic teachings and its similarities with other religions. There might be somewhat narrow-minded judgments, commandments, interpretations in it, but it is very interesting especially regarding Jesus the person vs. Jesus the symbol, because it analyzes the meaning of names in hebrew. Also draws a lot of connections to internal alchemy:

 

Sex: The Secret Gate To Eden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ru4s0TgXvc

 

Be careful. The man who formulated this version of "gnosticism" uses a great deal of subjective experience (in his dreams, for example) as the basis of his beliefs. There is a difference between rationally coming to a position, and rationalizing from a position. He does a lot of the latter.

[KoffeeKommando]

Be careful. The man who formulated this version of "gnosticism" uses a great deal of subjective experience (in his dreams, for example) as the basis of his beliefs. There is a difference between rationally coming to a position, and rationalizing from a position. He does a lot of the latter.

 

Perfect advice.

 

The second I saw Thelema Press...wasn't that Aleister Crowley's word he cooked up?

There is a whole "modern gnostic" movement made up of people looking for something to hitch their fame and fortune to. Take the name and run with it seems to be the MO. Lately humans have run out of ideas. You can see it in pop culture etc. These people are bandwagon jumpers. Or actively malicious/misleading.

 

The original gnostics (general group) had their say and told what they told. Personally, I see no need to improve on anything. I just like to be aware...and take to heart things that make solid(rational/universal/eternal?)sense.

 

Examples in the vein of fake religion teachers:

This is why ninjutsu is such a dirty word in MA - http://bit.ly/GBqSj7

 

I looked over the videos so far and I am pretty sure that all the folks who posted these are people that set themselves up as teachers and not folks who had studied under a fraud.

 

There are folks like that who have a huge desire to be seen as teachers. They can't stand being a student for anymore than a little time and soon find an excuse to go off on their own. All the videos I see in this thread seem to be by folks to show off their new art and not someone showing what they learned in class. Folks that have a big desire to be seen as teachers and admired are probably more likely to try to get that attention by posing videos of themselves on the internet while most honest students don't want their past movements to haunt them later.

 

It's a weird enough world out there without misdirection. Oh well. You can't stop it. You can only take care of yourself and your part.

[Aetherous]

The man who formulated this version of "gnosticism" uses a great deal of subjective experience (in his dreams, for example) as the basis of his beliefs.

 

I agree with feeling that it's risky to trust someone who derives their belief system from their dreams...I mean, we have our own dreams which are only relevant to us, and they may not even be immediately understandable.

 

But something interesting is that interpreting dreams is exactly what most of the characters in the bible (new and old testament) did. Their subjective experiences, both inner and outer, formed what Christianity became.

[KoffeeKommando]

But something interesting is that interpreting dreams is exactly what most of the characters in the bible (new and old testament) did. Their subjective experiences, both inner and outer, formed what Christianity became.

 

Sure. Native Americans are all about the dream stuff. It's intriguing.

 

My own personal problem with the "bible" is that I think it was tampered with in a major way. Some people with an agenda literally added quite a few things. The scribes and priests in those days were pretty skilled (and devious?). As a result I don't trust much of it to give me "the real deal". Bits and pieces.

 

A lot of good articles here by Melissa Cutler w/plausible proof:

http://www.original-bible.com/

 

We have a tough job as decent humans. Lots of junk to sift through.

The thing that attracted me to the Tao is the distillation of things down to the most important part.

The writings directly link to the reality of the human situation.

None of it goes overboard. There is no hype or outlandish situations.

 

Just saying. Not arguing or anything.

[Aetherous]

[KoffeeKommando]

Oh yes, I'm not saying all of the bible is crap. I would study what others have found from really digging into it. Just see what Melissa Cutler has found in her limited research. There are quite a few others with similar findings. I do like how she lays out comparisons. Simple. You begin to see a pattern emerge.

 

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

 

Yep. I'm in between disturbed and marveling right now. Closer to marvel.

 

Being disturbed at what you find does open up potential paths.

And yeah, there are choices to make at that point.

 

Red pill, blue pill and all that...

 

I'm just sharing things I've found. Sure, they might be disturbing to some.

They were to me. Although I've had nagging suspicions since I was a child.

 

 

Yep, anybody going around claiming the title of "gnostic" at this point is silly. Silly like satanists etc. I mean, they have their points too. But, any of the cult-ish stuff is past. We are officially beyond that at this metaphysical junction.

 

I think there is enough info out there. Everybody has to align at this point.

What will you choose is the only question left.

 

 

Death tastes pretty shitty I bet. I'll pick the other option thanks:

 

Empty everything out; hold fast to your stillness.

Even though all things are stirring together,

watch for the movement of return.

The ten thousand things flourish and then

each returns to the root from which it came.

Returning to the root is stillness.

Through stillness each fulfills its destiny.

That which has fulfilled its destiny becomes part of the Always-so.

To be aware of the Always-so is to awaken.

Those who innovate while in ignorance of the Always-so move toward disaster.

Those who act with awareness of the Always-so

embrace all, are not possessed by particular desire,

and move toward the Tao.

Those who are at one with the Tao abide forever.

Even after their bodies waste away, they are safe and whole.

 

I'm rambling at this point. Need to tag somebody so they can get in the ring with some of their "disturbing" insights. Let's hear it!

Edited March 20, 2012 by KoffeeKommando

[John Zen]

I agree with feeling that it's risky to trust someone who derives their belief system from their dreams...I mean, we have our own dreams which are only relevant to us, and they may not even be immediately understandable.

 

But something interesting is that interpreting dreams is exactly what most of the characters in the bible (new and old testament) did. Their subjective experiences, both inner and outer, formed what Christianity became.

 

What you said is true -- dreams have had a huge impact on modern Christianity. I don't trust people's dreams as global truths. In fact, I can't think of anything more animalistic, irrational, or dangerous when forming a global belief system than to trust the uncensored subconscious of one individual.

[Aetherous]

Just to be clear, I was speaking of ancient Christianity and even ancient Judaism...not modern Christianity, which demonizes dream interpretation and divination. Lots of interesting stuff hidden in the OT...

[Horus]

Interesting thread...

 

Made way way to this thread because I've started seeing Metatron's Cube in my meditations...