Baguazhang help!

[chenplayer]

Hi everyone! I have a couple of questions hoping my fellow bums out there can help out. I found a school relatively close to where I live that teaches Bagua and Xinyi once a week. The school seems legit and I like the sifu he is very nice. The only thing that pops up is that when I took the class we started with Bagua and the sifu started showing me how to walk the circle. Now here are my questions since I am not vey experienced with Bagua and my only reference to the internal arts comes from my practice of Chen taiji.

 

The sifu said he was not going to teach me to mud step because it was a waste of time. Now, what is mud stepping and is it important?

The second question is do your knees hurt when you started walking the circle? The sifu said my knees will build muscle and get stronger. I know my Chen sifu always stressed that my knees should never hurt in practice, but I don't know if it's different in Bagua. Any help will be appreciated!

[spiraltao]

Mud stepping is BAGUAZHANG's unique way stepping. The heel of the foot does not leave the ground, when the front foot slides out the rear foot becomes weighted and so on. The front foot slides out carefully to feel the ground, if one were on mud one would have to glide across it such as in mudstepping or the foot would get sucked in to the mud. ...and NO your knees shouldn't hurt. There is a difference between soreness and hurt to me, ya know?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chenplayer]

Thank you so much for the response. Yeah, the sifu was teaching me not to slide my foot but to actually lift it up while I step. He did say to keep my back heel from rising. I suppose he said this because the floors have mats and they are hard to slide on? Yeah he said my knees should hurt but I guess he meant actually being sore then physical pain. I just want to train correctly so I really appreciate the answers.

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

Muscle pain is absolutely fine, and part of the adjustment as your body learns a new way of movement.

 

Joint pain is absolutely wrong and shows big problems with your stance alignment.

 

Muscle pain good......Initially

Joint pain bad.......Always !

[chenplayer]

I would like to thank both of you very much, it is greatly appreciated. One last question and I will let you guys be. Does any one know of any Bagua schools in NYC? I work in the city and it would be a lot easier for me to go train in the city. Once again thank You for everything!!!!!

[humbleone]

Does any one know of any Bagua schools in NYC? I work in the city and it would be a lot easier for me to go train in the city.

 

1)I am interested in Frantzis water based methods. I contaced one of his senior students Craig Barnes who has trained with Bruce Frantzis for 18 years. It appears Craig is also a certified Bagua instructor. However Craig is away in Asia, should be back in about a month...

 

http://www.energyarts.com/instructors/taichi-qigong/new-york/craig-barnes

 

http://www.energyarts.com/bagua-zhang

 

2) master C K Chu came highly recommended. They are in Times Square. I am planning a vist in couple of weeks.

Not sure if bagua is taught.

 

http://www.ckchutaichi.com/chu.shtml

 

hope this helps. all the best in your practice.

[GreytoWhite]

Mud wading step is something unique to Cheng style bagua. Yin style typically does not practice mud wading step. The Xie Peiqi lineage members claim that Cheng was only taught the Dragon system of bagua. It's pretty interesting stuff.

[steve]

Hi everyone! I have a couple of questions hoping my fellow bums out there can help out. I found a school relatively close to where I live that teaches Bagua and Xinyi once a week. The school seems legit and I like the sifu he is very nice. The only thing that pops up is that when I took the class we started with Bagua and the sifu started showing me how to walk the circle. Now here are my questions since I am not vey experienced with Bagua and my only reference to the internal arts comes from my practice of Chen taiji.

 

The sifu said he was not going to teach me to mud step because it was a waste of time. Now, what is mud stepping and is it important?

The second question is do your knees hurt when you started walking the circle? The sifu said my knees will build muscle and get stronger. I know my Chen sifu always stressed that my knees should never hurt in practice, but I don't know if it's different in Bagua. Any help will be appreciated!

Welcome chenpalyer!

 

Is mud stepping important? Yes and no. I think there is value in learning the practice and I think it teaches us certain things regarding how to shift the weight, keep the center of gravity low, maintain balance, and a variety of other things. Normal heel-toe walking can potentially lead to bad habits like rising and lowering as we walk, falling into our step, losing balance, and so on. That said, you can also learn all of the important lessons within a framework of normal stepping as long as your teacher makes you aware of the potential pitfalls and gives you proper correction.

 

Some pain in the thighs and legs is expected in the beginning due to muscle fatigue. If you are feeling knee pain, it could mean that you are stepping improperly. It is critical to make sure that there is no torque occurring between the thigh and lower leg or lower leg and foot - this will cause damage to the knees. The reason you turn while walking the circle is because of the torque that is developed in the spine, waist, and hips (the kua). But the thigh, leg, and foot are in normal alignment as if you were walking in a straight line. If the foot is turning in or out as you step, you will damage your knees. This is hard to put into words but your teacher should be able to show you this.

 

Good luck!

[spiraltao]

 

 

[settler]

great video

[Ish]

When the sole of your foot is flat on the ground, don't let your knee bend past your toes.

Also your structure may be slightly off making some excessive force stay at your knees instead of going into the ground and rooting you.

 

So stretching and zhan zhuang are a great combo to get your structure and increase internal force. I believe you can use the individual palm change postures as zhan zhuang, but ask your Sifu.

 

Best

[Informer]

I used to work out quite a bit and found that Omega3 fatty acids like fishoils, really helped lube up my joints.

[chenplayer]

Thank you guys so much. You have been more than helpful. I will practice even harder now. Thank you again!!!!

[zerostao]

http://www.youtube.com/user/blacktaoist?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase

nyc bop

[joeblast]

Of course when I hear NYC, I think of Lin But he's back in China for a while and will be back later this year. I had intended on getting down there before he left...

[chenplayer]

I have never heard of Lin? I am quite interested in finding out more. Is there anything I can look up online?

And if you ever want to come down and practice I am more than happy to have a training partner!!!!

[Gerard]

This is what the mud walking step (tang ni bu) looks like:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU7ygrkPtyE&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLC34B58F78128161B

 

However the front part of the feel need to slide forward a bit more (shown in the following video).

 

In action:

 

Holding heaven palm (of the eight old palms set of the Lian style)

 

 

Excellent form without bobbing the head up and down (a common mistake) and obvious opening of the crotch (the closer the inner part of the legs, the better - as per He Jinghan's vid. linked above).

 

Anyway, learning the complexity and depth of Bagua without a teacher is madness. Even with a competent teacher is difficult and requires a hell of a lot of discipline and commitment, imagine alone, lol. Nope, forget about it, you won't go far.

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

Yup, that second video is beautiful ! It would take years to reach that standard ! I've saved that video on my computer and refer to it quite often, when I need inspiration. Possibly the best circle walking I've seen on YouTube.

[Gerard]

Another good BGZ video: