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Karma, Destiny and Mastering your Life

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I read this book awhile ago and found this excerpt which i thought was very interesting and i figured i'd share it. The following is a conversation between Cheryl Simone and Sadghuru Jaggi Vasudev from Midnights with the Mystic. Enjoy.

 

 

"Are we at the mercy of our destiny or can even that be changed?

 

"He paused before answering. Now what you are really asking is if life is already pre-fixed. That's the question. This question comes up because certain things are happening in you life, and even though you are trying to push it one way, it is often going another way. That is the reason for the question.

 

So, is this destiny? As you know, external situations are controlled by many, many forces. Right now, we are driving in this car, and this situation is controlled by gravity, the movement of the planet-its rotations and revolution-and atomic forces, and any number of things. There are also forces at work well beyond present levels of perception and understanding. We only understand to some extent, and to that extent we can control them.

 

"For example, one can steer a car, make sure there is enough gas, and obey the rules of the road. Those things are under one's control, but gravity is not under our control. But our understanding of situations has hugely improved in the last fifty years. We now think less about destiny and more about things happening by intent. Do you see this?

 

He paused expectantly. Clearly he was not asking a rhetorical question. "Yes, i said. I definitely don't think along the lines that it is meant to be it will be, the wasy my grandmother used to think. "

 

So, he continued, in the next one hundred years, if our perception and understanding is greatly enhanced, you will see us less and less at the mercy of destiny. Most situations will be in our hands. It is beginning to happen, slowly, step by step, isn't it? Still, we do not understand all the forces working upon this particular situation right now, so everything we don't understand, we say is God's will. That is God's will. That is a childish explanation for all that you are unable to perceive and understand. It's an easy way of washing it off. We label it this way because we have not understood the realities of life properly.

 

Right now, we are doing a major project in the rural area in South India. You know i have been involved with rural people since i was young, but when i really got there and saw everything that was happening. I was amazed that in the 21st century, when a government dispensary is not more than 5 kilometers away in any village, every year more seventy thousand children lose their vision simply because of something as treatable as conjunctivitis.

 

Conjunctivitus does not take away vision; the children are just scratching out their eyeballs. If they just leave thir eyes alone for another four days without medicine they will be okay, but the children are unable to bear the itch. Just two drops of an antibiotic and their vision need not vanish. Do you think that is destiny or something that we can change?

 

"Definitely it's something that can and should be changed, I answered."

 

Whatever your destiny is right now, he continued it is self-created, but unfortunately, you are creating it unconsciously. It is written by you and nobody else. The creator has given you perfect freedom. He has put his own self into you. Your destiny is written by you. It is only because of feelings of helplessness that people are talking so much about destiny. You can also create your destiny consciously. I want you to know the power, the liberation, of another kind of science-the inner science-the yogic science through which you can become the master of your own destiny.

 

You have not yet understood the enormity of being human. If you take a human being to his full height, the divine will be a part of his life. If you have mastery over your physical body, 10 to 15 percent of your life and destiny is under your control. If you have sufficient mastery over your mind, 40 to 60 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control. If you have complete mastery over your life energies, 100 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control.

 

The whole science of yoga is just to work on these three levels: body, mind, and energy. Any human being can explore his capabilities to the fullest only when he exists in a state where there are no issues of his own. There are no internal issues, either body, thought, or emotion. It is only in this state that he can find expression to all that he is. All that we are doing in the form of spiritual process is just that. You decide where you want to go, the next course and destination. It is in your hands.

 

As there is a physical science for external well-being, there is an inner science,a yogic science. With this, you can take your destiny 100 percent into your own hands. You can take 100 percent of the very process of life into your hands. The very way that you are born you can decide. The very womb that are born in can be chosen by you consciously. That is the extent which you can have mastery over your own life.

 

Your birth, the very process of life and your death can be your choice. You can create your life the way you want it. Even now it is your choice, but you are choosing it unconsciously. One can choose consciously also. If you do not take your destiny into your own hands, you live accidentally. When you live accidentally, anxiety is very natural. Almost 90 percent if the world is anxious all the time. This is simply because people make no effort to take their lives into their own hands; the way it happens it happens.

"If we are uncosnciously creating our destiny right now, how is it happening? Is it our thoughts, or our actions, or our past actions." I asked

 

Who are you right now? he replied, you whole personality, everything that you are, is a complex accumulation of your impressions of life itself. This is like your software. This is what is referred to as Karma. It is the volume of your impressions. Everything you have perceived has imprinted itself on your mind and even on your energy. The very way your body behaves, the very way your energies behave, is a result of the past impressions of your karma. The very way you move your body is programmed. So what you call karma is the sum of the vast store of impressions you have taken as your software. Because of these impressions, you develop certain tendencies. These are unconscious tendencies.

 

Your body, your mind, you emotions, your energies, everything works according to these tendencies that evolve because of the vast store of impressions. This the influence of karma on your life. Unless one rises to a certain pitch of awareness and has a certain mastery over oneself, one is always being pushed and pulled by these tendencies that have been created unconsciously. Even though you are being pushed in a certain direction, all this was created by you, no one else but.

 

"So if we created it, can we undo-or avoid-that which we created?" I asked excited at the prospect. " Or can we change it with awareness? Or are these some experiences that are definitely destined to happen?"

 

Sadghuru answered, Right now, yes. There are many things that are bound to happen because these tendencies are far deeper than your mental determination. If you determine to go in a certain way, there are many things you can change. Certain fundamental things will find their own way. However, once a person has a certain mastery over his life energies, he can completely change the course of his life.

 

Now we are talking about creating the same thing consciously. The very fact that a person turns spiritual when he says, 'I am seeking liberation' means he wants to take the course of his life into his hands. You want to take your destiny into your hands. With the very first step of yoga your are try to take charge of some part of you, starting with the body, the breath, and then the mind and the energy. You are going step by step. It is more than just being free from suffering. You can definitely change the course of your destiny." Midnights with the Mystic

Edited by OldGreen
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Sweeet, thanks for that dewwd. I actually got into a lot of Sadghurus stuff because of a video you posted. I'm surprised he didn't say "Isn't it so?" XD

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Very nice post. I thank you for it as well. I think we tend to forget the influence we have on our own lives, believing blaming something else for our misfortune will make it easier, but in reality it is only when we accept responsibility that we can ever truly be free from "destiny". In Quantum Sprituality, one is said to create his reality by his own perceptions and that only through viewing reality as it is that we can break free from these shackles. It is by knowing that just because everyone sees something as it is, doesn't mean that it is as it is, that we can ask, "isn't that so?"

 

In my own life I am experiencing great hardship now. I will undoubtedly be on the street in a short time, most likely by the 15th. During the day I am fine with it, I feel very little stress or anxiety, but at night my true feelings arise in my dream consciousness and I find I sleep very little. So for me it is only by coming to terms with my issue, both on the surface and deeper within that I will be able to find peace. Part of this is understanding that my fear arises from my perception of what a perfect life is and not what life really is, imperfect. I will survive, I have no doubts about that, but the fear arises from something that is not according to my wishes. Each day I am finding that I can gather more strength simply by accepting my situation for what it is and giving up my perception of what it should be. I am simply a leaf in the wind, the wind takes me where it wants to go, but perhaps I am more than the leaf, perhaps I am the wind also. In being the wind I can direct the leaf that is me to where it needs to go, but I also have to have faith in that part of me that is the wind. In understanding that I am the wind I must also understand that the wind will often take me where I need to go, and not necessarily where I want to go. It is only by not wanting to go anywhere that the wind and the leaf have their truest freedom.

 

Aaron

Edited by Twinner

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I read this book awhile ago and found this excerpt which i thought was very interesting and i figured i'd share it. The following is a conversation between Cheryl Simone and Sadghuru Jaggi Vasudev from Midnights with the Mystic. Enjoy.

 

 

"Are we at the mercy of our destiny or can even that be changed?

 

"He paused before answering. Now what you are really asking is if life is already pre-fixed. That's the question. This question comes up because certain things are happening in you life, and even though you are trying to push it one way, it is often going another way. That is the reason for the question.

 

So, is this destiny? As you know, external situations are controlled by many, many forces. Right now, we are driving in this car, and this situation is controlled by gravity, the movement of the planet-its rotations and revolution-and atomic forces, and any number of things. There are also forces at work well beyond present levels of perception and understanding. We only understand to some extent, and to that extent we can control them.

 

"For example, one can steer a car, make sure there is enough gas, and obey the rules of the road. Those things are under one's control, but gravity is not under our control. But our understanding of situations has hugely improved in the last fifty years. We now think less about destiny and more about things happening by intent. Do you see this?

 

He paused expectantly. Clearly he was not asking a rhetorical question. "Yes, i said. I definitely don't think along the lines that it is meant to be it will be, the wasy my grandmother used to think. "

 

So, he continued, in the next one hundred years, if our perception and understanding is greatly enhanced, you will see us less and less at the mercy of destiny. Most situations will be in our hands. It is beginning to happen, slowly, step by step, isn't it? Still, we do not understand all the forces working upon this particular situation right now, so everything we don't understand, we say is God's will. That is God's will. That is a childish explanation for all that you are unable to perceive and understand. It's an easy way of washing it off. We label it this way because we have not understood the realities of life properly.

 

Right now, we are doing a major project in the rural area in South India. You know i have been involved with rural people since i was young, but when i really got there and saw everything that was happening. I was amazed that in the 21st century, when a government dispensary is not more than 5 kilometers away in any village, every year more seventy thousand children lose their vision simply because of something as treatable as conjunctivitis.

 

Conjunctivitus does not take away vision; the children are just scratching out their eyeballs. If they just leave thir eyes alone for another four days without medicine they will be okay, but the children are unable to bear the itch. Just two drops of an antibiotic and their vision need not vanish. Do you think that is destiny or something that we can change?

 

"Definitely it's something that can and should be changed, I answered."

 

Whatever your destiny is right now, he continued it is self-created, but unfortunately, you are creating it unconsciously. It is written by you and nobody else. The creator has given you perfect freedom. He has put his own self into you. Your destiny is written by you. It is only because of feelings of helplessness that people are talking so much about destiny. You can also create your destiny consciously. I want you to know the power, the liberation, of another kind of science-the inner science-the yogic science through which you can become the master of your own destiny.

 

You have not yet understood the enormity of being human. If you take a human being to his full height, the divine will be a part of his life. If you have mastery over your physical body, 10 to 15 percent of your life and destiny is under your control. If you have sufficient mastery over your mind, 40 to 60 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control. If you have complete mastery over your life energies, 100 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control.

 

The whole science of yoga is just to work on these three levels: body, mind, and energy. Any human being can explore his capabilities to the fullest only when he exists in a state where there are no issues of his own. There are no internal issues, either body, thought, or emotion. It is only in this state that he can find expression to all that he is. All that we are doing in the form of spiritual process is just that. You decide where you want to go, the next course and destination. It is in your hands.

 

As there is a physical science for external well-being, there is an inner science,a yogic science. With this, you can take your destiny 100 percent into your own hands. You can take 100 percent of the very process of life into your hands. The very way that you are born you can decide. The very womb that are born in can be chosen by you consciously. That is the extent which you can have mastery over your own life.

 

Your birth, the very process of life and your death can be your choice. You can create your life the way you want it. Even now it is your choice, but you are choosing it unconsciously. One can choose consciously also. If you do not take your destiny into your own hands, you live accidentally. When you live accidentally, anxiety is very natural. Almost 90 percent if the world is anxious all the time. This is simply because people make no effort to take their lives into their own hands; the way it happens it happens.

"If we are uncosnciously creating our destiny right now, how is it happening? Is it our thoughts, or our actions, or our past actions." I asked

 

Who are you right now? he replied, you whole personality, everything that you are, is a complex accumulation of your impressions of life itself. This is like your software. This is what is referred to as Karma. It is the volume of your impressions. Everything you have perceived has imprinted itself on your mind and even on your energy. The very way your body behaves, the very way your energies behave, is a result of the past impressions of your karma. The very way you move your body is programmed. So what you call karma is the sum of the vast store of impressions you have taken as your software. Because of these impressions, you develop certain tendencies. These are unconscious tendencies.

 

Your body, your mind, you emotions, your energies, everything works according to these tendencies that evolve because of the vast store of impressions. This the influence of karma on your life. Unless one rises to a certain pitch of awareness and has a certain mastery over oneself, one is always being pushed and pulled by these tendencies that have been created unconsciously. Even though you are being pushed in a certain direction, all this was created by you, no one else but.

 

"So if we created it, can we undo-or avoid-that which we created?" I asked excited at the prospect. " Or can we change it with awareness? Or are these some experiences that are definitely destined to happen?"

 

Sadghuru answered, Right now, yes. There are many things that are bound to happen because these tendencies are far deeper than your mental determination. If you determine to go in a certain way, there are many things you can change. Certain fundamental things will find their own way. However, once a person has a certain mastery over his life energies, he can completely change the course of his life.

 

Now we are talking about creating the same thing consciously. The very fact that a person turns spiritual when he says, 'I am seeking liberation' means he wants to take the course of his life into his hands. You want to take your destiny into your hands. With the very first step of yoga your are try to take charge of some part of you, starting with the body, the breath, and then the mind and the energy. You are going step by step. It is more than just being free from suffering. You can definitely change the course of your destiny." Midnights with the Mystic

 

Nice. My friend has been practicing Sadhguru's techniques and teachings for over 3 years. He has seem remarkable difference in his existential condition since then...and it was an extremely positive change.

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I wish you the best of luck Twinner.

 

I know from personal experience that the more garbage (fears) we clear out of our attic the more free space we have to move around in life. Once you start the path the ball and chain can only get lighter.

 

-Peace and Love

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Sadhguru is a righteous dude and a pretty fair motorcycle mechanic too. We have free will and make our own breaks one way or t'other. Good stuff pays debts of bad karma bad stuff just makes more bad karma.

Simple solution... Try to do good stuff and avoid doing bad stuff.

You told you old mum 'Thank you' yet Sinan?

;-)

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>>Sadhguru is a righteous dude and a pretty fair motorcycle mechanic too.

 

Is this true? How coincidental! I happen to be at a biker festival at this very moment and there are motorcycles roaring past me as I write.

 

>Are we at the mercy of our destiny or can even that be changed?

 

This seems to be the main question, and I would ask: why should it matter? In classical Taoism, destiny is fixed BUT it may not be attained due to the vagaries of fate. For the sake of argument, let's say that one can determine one's destiny and fate will not stand in the way of reaching destiny, should it be altered? If destiny is predetermined, is there a reason why it's predetermined? Since Sahdguru speaks of God, can God EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE assign a destiny to an individual? Let's say that God gives you a destiny at birth for some reason that may not be fathomable. Let's say God wants a person to be an accountant, but that person wants to be a sculptor and it's a one-or-the-other life. Does the person say, God, I don't want your destiny, I want to be a sculptor? As someone (a Jew For Jesus) I spoke to recently said to me, who has the right to question what God decrees?

 

Sahdguru says that destiny is self-created:

 

Whatever your destiny is right now, he continued it is self-created, but unfortunately, you are creating it unconsciously. It is written by you and nobody else. The creator has given you perfect freedom.

 

I contest that is not true. In classical Taoism, people possess an encumbered will and are not free to go left or go right as they please, because although in theory they could, they are always being influenced to go one way or another. There are also limits to one's destiny based on one's inborn nature, station, social circumstances and other external factors. In a study of twins separated at birth, their lives ended up being similar in many details.

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yep Sadhguru is an old biker too he has quite a collection.

Nice guy and talks and writes a lot of sense. He's a Shivaite in a way but pretty eclectic. Very popular with the Indian community round these parts.

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As there is a physical science for external well-being, there is an inner science,a yogic science. With this, you can take your destiny 100 percent into your own hands. You can take 100 percent of the very process of life into your hands.

 

 

I found this sentence disturbing. It sounds like a total control freak to me. It goes against Tao (Wu wei), buddha (no ego) and Christianity (surrender to God).

 

Whom should I believe in? A self-claimed guru who fix old bikes or Laozi/Buddha/Jesus?

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I found this sentence disturbing. It sounds like a total control freak to me. It goes against Tao (Wu wei), buddha (no ego) and Christianity (surrender to God).

 

Whom should I believe in? A self-claimed guru who fix old bikes or Laozi/Buddha/Jesus?

 

Now there's nothing wrong with fixing old bikes :P.

 

Tao, God etc are a part of us so when one lets go of the limited ego then you can't be a control freak. What you do will be in line with Tao and choosing how to control ones life processes would be for the benefit of other beings.

 

"The very way that you are born you can decide. The very womb that are born in can be chosen by you consciously."

 

A being at that level will choose to be reborn so they can continue to spread the teachings in the physical on this plane.

 

Just my opinion.

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I found this sentence disturbing. It sounds like a total control freak to me. It goes against Tao (Wu wei), buddha (no ego) and Christianity (surrender to God).

 

Whom should I believe in? A self-claimed guru who fix old bikes or Laozi/Buddha/Jesus?

 

They're saying the same thing. Only in your philosophies there seems to be a contradiction.

 

Wu Wei is choice. Non-action is the same as total action. When one is encumbered by ego, self, and personal habits, how can any choice one makes be considered free? To make unconditioned choices, pure creative choices in one moment then another, is true free will. The less you are, and your garbage of compulsions you carry, the freer you are to be and act.

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They're saying the same thing. Only in your philosophies there seems to be a contradiction.

 

Wu Wei is choice. Non-action is the same as total action. When one is encumbered by ego, self, and personal habits, how can any choice one makes be considered free? To make unconditioned choices, pure creative choices in one moment then another, is true free will. The less you are, and your garbage of compulsions you carry, the freer you are to be and act.

 

Well said. :)

 

With totally clarity... My will and Thy will are the same.

 

:)

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A lot of Sadghuru's words here sounds like Fourth Way teaching of Gurdjieff, where did he get his teaching from? is he from an Indian Lineage of masters?

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Well said. :)

 

With totally clarity... My will and Thy will are the same.

 

:)

 

Not yet. When you do, you don't have to announce to us, we'd have known already.

Edited by hydrogen

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A lot of Sadghuru's words here sounds like Fourth Way teaching of Gurdjieff, where did he get his teaching from? is he from an Indian Lineage of masters?

 

He did all his sadhana and met his guru in a past lifetime. It's quite fascinating. He was a businessman who on occasion practiced physical yoga and didn't have much interest in spirituality (more in motorcycles and cars). Apparently he was very skeptical of all the spirituality stuff and was quite successful in his business endeavors. Then when he was 25 when sitting on a particular hill he began experiencing transcendental levels of awareness. Subsequently, he remembered all his past lives, but not being able to believe it, travelled around India tracing the steps of his past identities. He met past disciples and acquaintances and that was the beginning of Isha.

 

The whole purpose of his return here, since he was already enlightened in the past life, had been to consecrate the dhanyalinga temple at the request of his guru. He was going to just go after that, but by that point Isha had become so big and there were so many people dependent on him....

 

You can read about all this in the book Midnight with the Mystic. There's some crazy stuff in there. I recommend the audio book because you can hear him tell it.

 

Here's a good TED talk he speaks about some of this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAf39xo-Is

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Not yet. When you do, you don't have to announce to us, we'd have known already.

 

If you(or anyone here) find someone in the world with total clarity... Please point him/her out, I would definitely like to meet them.

 

:)

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They're saying the same thing. Only in your philosophies there seems to be a contradiction.

 

 

The Tao/Buddha/Jesus said in order to gain 100% control you have to loose 100% control first.

 

Sadghuru said " If you have mastery over your physical body, 10 to 15 percent of your life and destiny is under your control. If you have sufficient mastery over your mind, 40 to 60 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control. If you have complete mastery over your life energies, 100 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control."

 

It's a different path.

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The Tao/Buddha/Jesus said in order to gain 100% control you have to loose 100% control first.

 

Sadghuru said " If you have mastery over your physical body, 10 to 15 percent of your life and destiny is under your control. If you have sufficient mastery over your mind, 40 to 60 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control. If you have complete mastery over your life energies, 100 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control."

 

It's a different path.

 

What exactly is your complaint?

 

At first you were talking about how Sadhguru sounds like a control freak. Then here you are talking about gaining 100% control according to the Tao (btw, who is this Tao anyway, I haven't heard of this guy which is surprising since you put him/her on par with the Buddha and Jesus), the Buddha, or Jesus.

 

On what basis do you call the paths different? Are you aware of what Sadhguru teaches in order to attain this "mastery"? What if it is indeed to, as you put it, "lose control." Then wouldn't he be just saying the same thing as what you think the Buddha, Jesus, or this Tao guy said?

 

You seem to very much like someone who only likes teachings if they are two thousand years old! What if there are true masters in this day and age! Whoa! Shocking! Does he/she have to be dead for 2000 years for you to see they are genuine? You're quite silly consistently going on about the Buddha/Lao Zi/Jesus as if you fully understand they're teachings or as if they were this exclusive "the only enlightened beings" club. That's like only liking pop songs. There are other good artists out there putting out great music!

Edited by Lucky7Strikes

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What exactly is your complaint?

 

At first you were talking about how Sadhguru sounds like a control freak. Then here you are talking about gaining 100% control according to the Tao (btw, who is this Tao anyway, I haven't heard of this guy which is surprising since you put him/her on par with the Buddha and Jesus), the Buddha, or Jesus.

 

On what basis do you call the paths different? Are you aware of what Sadhguru teaches in order to attain this "mastery"? What if it is indeed to, as you put it, "lose control." Then wouldn't he be just saying the same thing as what you think the Buddha, Jesus, or this Tao guy said?

 

 

I guess I misunderstood him. He just stated the result of controlling your body/astral/engergy. I wrongly believe he meant the steps of enlightment.

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Does anyone have a decent book reference on karma. Not a new age re/mis interpretation.

Thanks!

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Someone told me recently that it was my karma to not believe in karma. I guess we should add the felief in destiny to that as well.

 

Anyone want to talk about free will or freedom of choice?

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Someone told me recently that it was my karma to not believe in karma. I guess we should add the felief in destiny to that as well.

 

Anyone want to talk about free will or freedom of choice?

 

Yeah, I've started to get into that one, but it's a helluva tricky topic. I'd be up for it though Mr MH.

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Our individual human nature is the narrative thread of our story only if we are personally empowered and self determining.( Without it we are slaves of a sort).

 

How we go about life ,is that we can play ,and only play, just three

of four cards ,that we are initially dealt from a deck of possibilities.

 

Card 1 , We have some control of our thoughts

Card 2 , We have somecontrol of our emotions

Card 3 , We have some control of our bodies.

That’s it , that’s all the direct control you get over anything.

 

Card 4 , is the situation we find ourselves in at any given moment ,It’s a card that keeps changing ..we have no direct control over .

 

(By playing the first three cards we can have an effect on the fourth but it is an indirect effect with many external factors playing into its totality. )

 

Some controls we don’t! have are as follows,,

We cant actually foresee what will happen , (we guess)_.

We cant ever be perfectly sure of anything outside our minds,

(and some things inside it, not the size of a thing not the color of it not even the number of it, we are always limited by our senses and conclusions and associations. But don’t worry , just go ahead and proceed , its just a philosophical truth we can live with.)

We cannot defy the laws of nature, but they can be worked with.

We cannot will matter into existence, or , make things happen, unmediated by physical effort.

We cannot embed experiences directly into each others minds, (so we are always a bit of a stranger, a bit misunderstood, and a bit misunderstanding.

And we can’t ,both ,eat a cake ,and keep it intact at the same time We must choose.)

 

Those are all cards which aren’t in the deck at all …but there are many others in there, so .. Play your cards well so you get indirect control of a lot more of them.

There is a heck of a lot of power in those cards we do have.

But it helps to remember that the only true control is self- control , the only mastery to be had is self mastery.

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