Released: Seeking the Master of Mo Pai: Adventures with John Chang by Jim McMillan

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[Formless Tao]

TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CHINESE INDONESIAN CULTURE, BELIEFS AND VALUES:

 

 

I am of southern european make up, first geneartion born Australian, but I consider myself european as I hold on to some of my european culture, beliefs and values. So im an Australian born European.

 

 

 

Please feel free to correct me if im wrong Tongkosong or thunderindo but this is very similar to the situation of Indonesian born Chinese, the Chinese keep their culture, beliefs and values even though they were born and live in Indonesia. My wife is Chinese Indonesian and my children are half Chinese who speak Indonesian only thus far with a little bit of Chinese and English. My friends are all Chinese mostly from Indonesia and as I have stated before I have lived and worked with 3 generations of Chinese in the same household for more than 1 year. I was married in Indonesia with a traditional Chinese wedding and tea ceremony and was also arrested on 2 ocassions on 2 consecutive days due to no fault of my own by Intelkam (indonesian intelligence) and resk

 

e

[h.uriahr]

Your seeming to forget the high level master are capable of moving and hiding their chi from those below their own levels ? Every mopai students are taught to do this, in fact john chang does it when he will visits china and abroad. He will tell you he is not capable of detecting teachers of a much higher calibre, but is only at his levels close or similar to his.

 

Do you forget the stories about the golden light challenging master chang and defeating with him ? Were you aware this man lived in the same town and was only reminding to remain humble ?

 

Kostas books are not neikung bibles. You must EMPTY YOUR CUP as bruce lee says.

 

Lukman,

 

Can you touch on your practice? How many levels does your practice have? Can you expand on what goes on at each level?

[Formless Tao]

and Reskrim ( Indonesian Criminal department) but that is another story in itself. I can speak Indonesian to about only 25% and can understand some basic Hakka (chinese dialect) and mandarin.

 

This samsung galaxy tab virtual keyboard is killing me.

 

Ok, after some background information on me.

 

Now to get to the point of the heading i made above...

[Formless Tao]

h.uriahr. check out lukmans profile and on it you will find a link to his Indonesian blog. It has alot of information their

[h.uriahr]

h.uriahr. check out lukmans profile and on it you will find a link to his Indonesian blog. It has alot of information their

 

Website is awesome. I was just wondering if he goes beyond the 3 ?

[Formless Tao]

The Chinese people do things very differently to the westeners, which im still learning till today, keeping my glass half empty/full;) they live in a collective society where their may be 3 generations living in the same household but the decisions that the younger generation make are not desicions made on their own. The decisions can be made by their parents, grandparents, family elders, or the local community. If people do not understand this or have not experienced this I would suggest travelling to a collective asian county or reading 'the analects on Confucius'. Just travelling to the country also will not help to understand, you have to live, breath, experience and talk to elders in the local community.

 

If the younger Chinese generation make a decision on their own that they dont consult with and / or the parents, grandparents, elders dont like this or they dont give their blessings this is asking for trouble and that individual may be banished from the family. I have seen this happenbefore in Chinese families in Indo. Plus my in laws told my wife that she MUST marry a Chinese person ant NOT a westener in this very day and age. They did not trust me then yet and I very much understand why. My sister in laws also said that their parents would not allow us to get married and they would not even visit my parents house in Melbourne. After many trips to indo, spendingtime withthe family and showing that I was truly genuinet a

s'

[Formless Tao]

Genuine they ageed to visit my family and allow us to get married. My wife needed the blessing of her parents and grandparents first otherwise if she hae have run away with me they would have cut her from the family. This would have has a devastating effect on her as she is very close collective wise to her family. If her father didnt want us to get married he easily could have stopped it.

 

The funny thing is once on a flight with him he said to me if I didnt want you to marry my daughter you wouldn't have. I felt this was a bit un Chinese. He is quite a powerful (money) rich, connected businessman and we had 1200 guests at our wedding. Mostly Chinese families, but also with politicians (bupati and wakil), police, army, immigration officials and others rich businessmen and their families. Having a good reputation in the society is also very important in Chinese families.

 

TO BE CONTINUED as I have to spend time with my family

[Formless Tao]

I have been directly involved with Chinese culture for over 10 years and travel to indo nearly every year since 2005. Everytime we visit we must pay respects and say hi to the families Chinese ancestors and when we leave the country we must also say goodbye to them. This takes place at the local Chinese cemetery and grave ceremonies are also held. This is also the same for the families living relatives. Im from a strong Christian Catholic background and when I first saw them praying to their ancestors at the cemetery or to the family photos above the home door frame, burning joss sticks, paper money, candles etc I was quite overwhelmed as I was not used to this in the west. Indo is a very spiritual place and I find it quite different to what im used to in Australia, but in my opinion its not just a nice natural place that can be spiritual but also a peoples. I Find the Chinese people in Indo deeply spiritual especially from their traditions, be it Taoism, Buddhism or Confucianism.

 

One Chinese family member has their dead relatives spirits come into her and talk to the rest of the living family through her quite often.

 

I would at the start eat rice 3 times a day which I then changed to 2 times per day as I needed a western breakfast. This lasted for again more than 1 year. I also found that at the dinner table my wifes family spoke alot less at the dinner table than I was used to in a big European family. My father in law was extremely quiet and some days we may jsut eat in silence.

[Formless Tao]

My father in law has been used and ripped off by his own family members many times and yet he never confronts them or ever mentions anything to them. He still lets them stay at one of his many houses or has even built a house for a particular family member to stay at, plus he still financially supports them even though one of the members ripped him off.

 

I would get so angry as I could not understand his way of doing things. I would prefer to confront the person in the western way and get the problem out in the open so that both parties know where they stand, but I have learned that this causes conflict both verbal, emotional and physical. My father in laws Chinese way of doing things was to just keep quiet, push the problem under the rug and this passive way of doing things didn't cause fights. This in turn would keep the peace, save face and keep a persons reputation untarnished. Im not saying the Chinese way is better than the western as both have good and bad and pros and cons but at the end of the day the cultures are different and have different ways of doing things and handling issues.

 

TO BE CONTINUED...

[Formless Tao]

Another thing I noticed was Chinese Indonesians when they talked to me would not constantly hold an eye to eye gase while ws were talking and this annoyed me especially with my wife. I am used to talking with a person looking at their eyes directly the western way. You get used to it after a while but thankfully my wife has become more western and does not look away or down while talking to me but will hold her gase

 

Respect for an elder person in the Chinese community is of great importance I noticed also in indo. Whether they were an older cousin or great grandparent. Very different to what im used to hear in th west.

 

If we go to the east, we should remember that we are on their turf and we must play by their rules and not our western rules in their country. We wouldn't like it if Chinese came to our country and tried to tell us how to do things on our home turf. So it comes back to the Golden Rule. 'Treat others, as you would like to be treated yourself'. This is a universal theme that is shown in most if not all religions and ways of thought bothe eastern and western.

 

2 weeks ago I went camping on a mountain with a Chinese national friend of mine and I was picking his brain about his thoughts on what the Chinese think about the current political situation in the Koreas. His thoughts were very different to what I see on tv from the USA and Oz but I really enjoyed listening to his point of view and a lot of it if not all made quite alot of cents. Again it was based around strategy and being passive, unlike the aggressive west.

 

TO BE CONTINUED. ..

[Formless Tao]

Comparing the west to what I have written above we live in an extremely individualistic society and this causes alot of differences with eastern based collective peoples. It comes down to is a person doing something for the benefit of him self or for the benefit of the wider community, society or mankind. One view can be looked at as selfish and greedy whereas the other can be looked at as giving and compassionate.

 

The Chinese are definitely not lazy at study or business ventures, they are very much like Jews in that sense and like to keep to their own values, traditions and beliefs and they put us westerners to shame in study and business as this is very important in the 2 cultures I mentioned above

 

I remember reading a quote from somewhere but I dont remember from whom. It said 'People fear what they do not know' ie understand.

 

So before we attack, call names and judge John Chang, the Chinese ancestor spirits, the Chinese Indonesian Mo Pai students or any of our fellow human beings we must first try to REALLY understand them.

 

Peace to all

[Formless Tao]

BTW, Tongkosong and Thunderindo, your english is extremely good. So I assume at the least you studied English in Indonesia at EF English First, but something tells me you both studied uni in the west in either Australia or the USA.

 

Great job, if only we could learn Mandarin or Indonesia this well

[TaoIsTruth]

Hi @thunderindo & @tongkosong.

IMHO, you have tried to clarify the matter and explained things with your best effort in a well respected way.

Would you clarify the two rumors that have been around.

The first has been around since 2006. Did this event really ever take place according to your knowledge of Master John Chang ? If this is true, did this "being of golden light sphere" live somwhere in the same town of Indonesia too ?

'seandenty', on 13 October 2006 - 11:53 PM, said:
The following story was told to me by Kostas senior student in Greece. Several of Sherfu's students witnessed the whole thing go down. I posted this on Shaolin Wahnam three years ago.

"One day at Sifu John Changs clinic in Java, three acupuncture needles mysteriously appeared in the wall. Sifu and his students were at a loss as to how this could have occurred. The following day the same thing happened. This continued for several days; each day Sifu would return from lunch to find three more needles in the wall.

At some point he sensed a presence in the room as three needles rose out of their cabinet, turned toward the wall, and shot across the room, imbedding deeply into the wall. John called out to this mysterious presence, show yourself coward. Presently a ball of condensed golden light floated into the room. Recognizing a challenge for what it was, he shot an energy blast from his palm directly at the sphere. The sphere in response deftly evaded the strike and remained floating nonchalantly in the air. What followed was an intense but largely one sided dual. The students who where present said that at one point Sifu Changs body literally became a blur as he moved faster and faster in his attempts to strike the sphere. After a while he gave up and the ball left as mysteriously as it had arrived.

A couple days later, while Sifu was away on business, a man came calling at his home. His wife answered the door and man asked her to deliver the following message to Sifu: dont be too proud. Neither Sifu, nor his students knew this man and he never returned."

Actually the story was to be continued several years later, as Sherfu's senior student received an offer from the mysterious challenger to come and study with him when Sherfu retired.

I don't expect anyone to believe me and quite frankly, who would. This is the will of the masters to remain beyond the veil. Actually, there may be a documentary in the works in the next few years that will involve David's masters. If it happens, I think it's going to change the world as we know it.

I'm currently receiving emails and telephone calls from around the world; in some part due to the posting here. Many people who have met Kostas or read the book or seen the documentary, are willing to look past the veil. Personally, I feel it's the beginning of something; just like Kostas book was 6 years ago.

I know that some of you out there are just watching and have met John Chang and others perhaps. I would invite you to share... who knows, maybe something good can come of it.

Best, Sean

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12933-john-chang-versus-mike-tyson/

The second is the statement from Kosta's book :

 

 

“I have wanted to do so; you are preaching to the choir, Kosta,” he said softly. “I have gone to China twice looking for people like myself, hoping to find a brother. I was unsuccessful both times.” “But you know of their existence now?” I asked. “Yes,” he said. “I know that there are for sure two and I can sense eight more. I think that there are at least ten.”

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 93)

 

Did this statement really come from Master John Chang himself, or just a madeup by Kosta ?

 

I truly appreciate and acknowledge that it's your right to answer or not to answer. However I think it's good if we could just verify several rumors that has been around by receiving the clarifications from reliable sources like both of you

 

[tongkosong]

Thank you everyone for trying to understand the underlying problem to this solution. I do truly think that what Truth Seeker, Formless Tao, and others say is very close to the truth. I do appreciate the attempts you guys had laid out to explain the differences between the Eastern and Western concepts and lifestyles because I agree that we all have things to learn from each other and not judge too harshly and quickly.

 

In regards to the being of light, I believe it to be true. In terms of where he resides, that would be anyone's guess because nobody have met him, besides the brief encounter John and his wife had.

 

As to John Chang's ability to sense the masters who are of higher levels, I believe that he did sensed them while he was meditating in the mountain. However, sensing is not the same as knowing specifically where they are.

 

I hope my answers give you hope. As to whether these masters will be known to you, I think that will be up to their karma and yours. Please do respect John Chang and Mopai's wish, which is to leave us peacefully. Peace to you all.

[puretruth01]

Tongkosong,

 

Hold on its not over yet.

 

What about micah and sifu lin?

 

They are using your school's name and scamming people.

 

They should be dealt with..

Edited May 4, 2013 by puretruth01

[TaoIsTruth]

@tongkosong, thank you for your kind reply...

 

If you don't mind, I have this question of mine that purely flows out from my own curiosity...

 

If the being of light was a real event, what about the message delivered by the so called "mysterious" person and a mysterious challenger that offered Master Chang's senior student to come and study with him ?

 

Did both events really take place ?

 

How did the mysterious challenger offer Chang's senior student ? did he appear in a dream, used a written message, or came in physical person ?

 

I'm really sorry, I hope I'm not going too far...

A couple days later, while Sifu was away on business, a man came calling at his home. His wife answered the door and man asked her to deliver the following message to Sifu: dont be too proud. Neither Sifu, nor his students knew this man and he never returned."

Actually the story was to be continued several years later, as Sherfu's senior student received an offer from the mysterious challenger to come and study with him when Sherfu retired.

 

 

[jjm]

My father in law has been used and ripped off by his own family members many times and yet he never confronts them or ever mentions anything to them.

Formless Tao, thank you for sharing your thoughts and your personal story. I think it was very valuable for us to hear. I'm married to an Asian woman myself, and some of the things you wrote are totally the same in her family. Her parents are extremely generous, and sadly have been ripped off by relatives over and over. Yet my in-laws never complain, they see it as their duty to help however they can.

 

And I laughed when you wrote about the silence at the table. The first few times I ate with them, I felt so awkward because it was silent! My family is loud at the table, so it took a long adjustment period. I still can't resist starting a conversation once we've gone 5 minutes without talking.

[Thunder_Gooch]

They've already told you no one on their end knows who Sifu Lin is, and they know all 2b+ students personally and he isn't among them.

 

What do you want them to do about it, go all pulp fiction on Micah and the imaginary Sifu Lin?

 

Can you picture ancestor spirit May going... Say what one mo time motha******

 

 

Tongkosong,

 

Hold on its not over yet.

 

What about micah and sifu lin?

 

They are using your school's name and scamming people.

 

They should be dealt with..

[puretruth01]

More Pie Guy,

Dude dont respond to me. Dont send me prviate messages either.

If i ask a question to another member let them answer it.

Were all adults here... No one needs help from you.

Plus your response doesnt even make sense.

Im asking them how are they going tro stop them? Not what they think of them.

Again i wasnt talking to you thats why i addressed it to Tongsokong....

[Thunder_Gooch]

What do you expect them to do about it, seriously?

 

 

More Pie Guy,

Dude dont respond to me. Dont send me prviate messages either.

If i ask a question to another member let them answer it.

Were all adults here... No one needs help from you.

Plus your response doesnt even make sense.

Im asking them how are they going tro stop them? Not what they think of them.

Again i wasnt talking to you thats why i addressed it to Tongsokong....

[puretruth01]

Wtf didnt i say dont respond to me? i could swear i just said it in my last post? I was there when i wrote it. So i know i said it.

My expectations dont matter.

Again More Pie Guy stop interfering with my messages.

This is trolling.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Asking inane questions over and over, that have no real answer or have been answered explicitly a few paragraphs prior is trolling.

[puretruth01]

Asking inane questions over and over, that have no real answer or have been answered explicitly a few paragraphs prior is trolling.

 

Well the question isnt posed to you its not for you to comment on.

 

So....

 

Plus why is it when i ask the mo pai memebers about micah you get invovled and prevent them from answering?

 

Let me think on this?

 

Could it be that your a student of micah...

 

I mean im asking the mo pai how they are going to stop them but to you its a dumb question... So dumb that you try to derail it...

 

Your not a man of tact or poise

 

The truth is if the Mo Pai lets Micah keep doing what he is doing. An the Mo Pai is aware of this then they are responsible for it.

 

It is the responsbility of the school to maintian its reputation and practices.

 

It is their duty to handle this once they have been made aware of it.

 

So all of the people scammed by micah after the mo pai found out about this is actually on the head of the mo pai.

 

because they were aware of it they could have stopped it but didnt.

 

Plus someone claiming that they are the offical mo pai whatever is just wrong and the mo pai should stop it anyways.

 

 

Now i wasnt going to just come out and say that i like most grown men try to approach other grown men with a little tact poise and respect.

Edited May 4, 2013 by puretruth01

[Thunder_Gooch]

No I am not a student of Micha, no I don't like the *******.

 

Just burnt out on the middle school, ADHD nonsense here on this forum.

 

There is nothing they can do about it short of coming out to the USA and breaking a few legs or starting a lawsuit against Micah, or asking the ancestor spirits to get involved. I doubt they will do any of those, and will probably just keep to themselves to pursue their own training rather than get mixed up in the endless sea of internet drama.

 

 

 

 

Well the question isnt posed to you its not for you to comment on.

So....

Plus why is it when i ask the mo pai memebers about micah you get invovled and prevent them from answering?

Let me think on this?

Could it be that your a student of micah...

I mean im asking the mo pai how they are going to stop them but to you its a dumb question... So dumb dumb that you try to derail it...

Your not a man of tact or poise

The truth is if the Mo Pai lets Micah keep doing what he is doing. An the Mo Pai is aware of this then they are responsible for it.

It is the responsbility of the school to maintian its reputation and practices.

It is their duty to handle this once they have been made aware of it.

So all of the people scammed by micah after the mo pai found out about this is actually on the head of the mo pai.

because they were aware of it they could have stopped it but didnt.

Plus someone claiming that they are the offical mo pai whatever is just wrong and the mo pai should stop it anyways.


Now i wasnt going to just come out and say that i like most grown men try to approach other grown men with a little tact poise and respect.

Edited May 4, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy