Seth Ananda needing to be banned

[scotty2000]

Thanks to dawei and Stig for having some semblance of intelligence. It's much appreciated in this atmosphere.

[Mal]

Now mods are quick to jump on a member suspended for provocation alone; and who came back asking for reasons why?

 

Yes, just like the last time Scotty was suspended, he seems to prefer to come back straight away.

 

Mal

Your statment was confusing.

 

Goodbye forever or 7 day suspension?

 

Sorry for the confusion, it's 7 Days.

[scotty2000]

You want a moderator to blame? Blame me. I agree with this decision. You want me to step down because I've done something you don't agree with?

 

I do blame you, Mal. Moreso than any other mod. Your decisions in your position of power have continually been of this caliber.

 

This forum would be better if you stepped down...there are more than enough mods here already to pick up any slack.

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Then you are a wise individual.

 

Wisdom means nothing to the deceased.

 

From your post I get the distinct impression you have an understanding of how people consider what is said. Or how people can misunderstand or take offense to words.

 

What is your purpose in so doing?

To draw out finer qualities in people. So to explain, when you hold people to a higher standard they do the following:

1. Take offense, pick a fight or allude/insinuate/engineer a misunderstanding.

2. Sulk.

3. Rise above it by showing their better side.

 

Ignorance causes 1 and 2 to happen. Given, not all people will rise to the occasion. It is a way to find out peoples motives.

Once they find out some do mimic number 3 but weeks later they go back to the same thing they did before.

 

Not everyone on this Forum hails from the West. There is a healthy input from Buddhists who come from Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Indonesia and other Asian countries. But i understand you are fairly new here, so i am saying this for your own reference.

 

I am glad that there are. Harmonious Emptiness and Sunya have shown some good qualities. With what Harmonious said I see there is still hope here.

We cant control how people act I understand this.

If we can agree on that we can put this behind us.

[thelerner]

Mal

Your statment was confusing.

 

Goodbye forever or 7 day suspension? Or something in between?

 

thanks

 

Craig

Hey Craig,

 

The Goodbye forever was followed with - that is what I could have done if I was an abusive moderator.

 

Mal is/was keeping it to 7 days, though Scotty's protest may well be the equivalent of 'Thank you sir, can I have another'.

[C T]

Since in my case there was a huge team of Buddhists or sympathizers banding together to get rid of me...

What H U G E team are you referring to, Scotty?

 

You're seeing what is not there.

[C T]

Wisdom means nothing to the deceased.

 

 

To draw out finer qualities in people. So to explain, when you hold people to a higher standard ...

 

If we can agree on that we can put this behind us.

Sorry, but i'm not clear what to make of that remark regarding wisdom/dead person.

 

I understand you have good intentions, but it did appear as if you were attempting to incite some reaction by using terms like neo-buddhists and western buddhists. If this was not your intent, then its my fault for being over-sensitive. Even so, its not very nice to try and flash the labels around. Some might take it wrongly.

 

Again, another apology for dragging you back into this thread after you have expressed the wish to adjourn.

[Mal]

Seth knowingly acted in a way to expect and even want to be suspended/banned and decided it was worth the risk; out of some form of "need to say it", which means he did not need to say it but did. He suspension is so 'duh' it is only a lose of confident to see moderators wait at all.

 

Just to quickly address this because on it's own it is such a simple quick decision.

Yet we were still trying to work out what action, if any was needed over this post that Seth reported.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20343-any-recomended-concentration-meditation/page__view__findpost__p__288868

 

Simple Jack,

 

I'll just be plainly honest, since I've had quite the weekend:

 

WHO GIVES A SHIT?

 

 

I'm not interested in Buddhist nonsense, and I'm even less interested in people who feel the need to spout it out and never achieve anything substantial. Get to practice! Then I'll be interested in what you have to say!

 

Sometimes when we don't know what to do so we leave people alone.

 

Sometimes they self moderate and

 

Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks.

 

Sometimes they don't.

 

 

Thanks for taking time for the feedback dawei

[Ambrose_Bierce]

Sorry, but i'm not clear what to make of that remark regarding wisdom/dead person.

Wisdom can cause attachment.

 

I understand you have good intentions, but it did appear as if you were attempting to incite some reaction by using terms like neo-buddhists and western buddhists. If this was not your intent, then its my fault for being over-sensitive. Even so, its not very nice to try and flash the labels around. Some might take it wrongly.

 

Hypothetically, it doesnt make any difference to me if I live or die tomorrow. People may miss me.

 

As for intentions, it is so easy for us to say: "Look at what Joe did! That means he is trying to overthrow the government!"

 

No, this forum is becoming like a gossip forum and it is time to stop.

 

Again, another apology for dragging you back into this thread after you have expressed the wish to adjourn.

 

I enjoy speaking with someone as emotionally understood as you.

Flys to vaseline. Flys to vaseline.

 

Metta

[dawei]

I think we agree about the time lag but it is almost inevitable given that the mod team are spaced around the globe.

Generally understandable... but the sudden banning response to Scotty's diatribe questions some of that explanation. So consistency is not there.

 

I think I need to point out that Mal went to some effort to say to the parties involved to sort it out and move on. But this didn't happen. Scotty even started this new thread with the sole objective of getting another poster suspended. Maybe our delay in suspending Seth was part of this but I don't see its in the spirit of TTBs to sort out your differences in this way. People talk about self-moderation as being the ideal but that's not going to be possible unless people calm down and respect each other.

Anyone who has moderated knows when it is not possible... that is why there are supposed to be moderators.

 

Most of the feedback I've got is that Scotty should be suspended for longer or even permanently banned. This hasn't happened. He has been suspended for 7 days only - which is not a long period of time.

Hopefully moderator decisions are not a democratic vote.. .again; that is why there are moderators; objective decision making.

 

His response to this is to log on with different accounts and hurl abuse at me initially. I don't care if he swears at me - I just think its pathetic. Even if the decision to suspend him was wrong (which I don't think) then his reaction speaks volumes especially for someone who has claimed on here to be enlightened in the Buddhist sense.

I am not going to go into interpreting his posts and understanding. I don't have that longevity here. But his response, outrage, and alternate-name posting is completely understandable IF you understand members feelings. I get it. It does not mean I feel he is justified but it does mean he feels he is not being understood. Since he was the one in question, it is important to understand both his thought and Seth's!

 

I really appreciate your response and generally really like your handling and contributions. Thanks.

[dawei]

Just to quickly address this because on it's own it is such a simple quick decision.

Yet we were still trying to work out what action, if any was needed over this post that Seth reported.

Thanks Mal... your a really nice guy caught up like the others trying to moderate this stuff.

 

But I beg to differ; Seth's outburst required no delay... That should of been like "Seth... you dog... small smile... sorry dude but take a week to chill a well deserved outburst"...

 

And then think about provocation... and not just Scotty but TTB provocation/trolling issues going on.

 

I personal feeling as to moderation is that you cannot go from completely silence to suspension; it does not do any justice to the board... You need intermediate 'warnings' as necessary. I feel if this was done at the right times then you help to guide the board mission. This is very delicate and maybe not a direction of the TTB... but food for thought... Thank Mal

[Stigweard]

A Black Day for the TaoBums

 

As Dawei has said, you chaps have now set a precedent.

 

If you are to be consistent (??) than I want tulku suspended IMMEDIATELY for being deliberately and continuously provocative with his continuous evangelism.

 

And you might as well suspend me now because I am going to be deliberately and continuously provocative about the way the moderation is being managed here on TaoBums.

 

I straight-up asked you chaps to give us a chance to sort it out ourselves; to actually apply the principles of us being self-moderated.

 

Did you listen?

 

Did you even acknowledge my request?

 

NO!

 

You just got in your little huddle and spat out an arbitrary ruling.

 

THAT is insulting, and demeaning, not just Scotty, not just to me, but to the whole board.

 

And on those grounds I am officially reporting the moderators for breach of the Insult Policy because you have just cast an insult far worse than any other made on this forum.

 

I also think it's time that as a community we rethink the way the moderation is run, because as it is now we can only expect more of this type of conflagration on a regular basis.

 

This should NEVER have gotten here .... NEVER.

 

But it is because of the way moderation is run that it has gotten here. Currently the process is too reliant on just a handful of people, and thus is dependent firstly upon enough of them logging in regularly to make a timely decision, and is dependent secondly on their ability to make the "right" decision.

 

As we can see in this case, it has FAILED dismally on both accounts.

 

Thus we can only assume that this WILL happen again, and quite frankly that is completely unacceptable!

 

Previously I had only tabled this as an idea to explore, now I am formally tabling it for open consideration:

 

Self Moderation on the TaoBums

 

First create a new moderation forum, or open the Concierge Dungeon to all members.

 

New moderation considerations get added to the Mod Forum in two ways:

 

1. Formal reports are made via the report buttons wherein the Moderators post it into the Mod Forum

 

2. Any member can post their own complaint in the Mod Forum about another member or situation at any time

 

Following this, any member, whether moderator or not, can pitch in to discuss the situation to determine if it is an actionable offense or not and what action, if any, should be taken. Moderators act as facilitators to the discussion only, they are there to help those members who have expressed interest or concern in the matter come to some sort of consensus over what to do.

 

Once a majority or consensus decision has been reached by involved parties then, and only then, do the moderators carry out the formal action that the members decided upon.

 

I am formally asking for a 3-6mth trial of this idea before anyone makes any judgment of whether or not it may work.

 

[aridus]

Since I have not been here in months, have not seen the topic in question, don't know what is going on, and do not care, I am obviously the most qualified judge on this matter.

 

And my judgment is:

I judge that I will continue to drink my tea, pretend I was never here, and let you figure it out.

[scotty2000]

A Black Day for the TaoBums

 

You could say that again. Seriously.

 

If you are to be consistent (??) than I want tulku suspended IMMEDIATELY for being deliberately and continuously provocative with his continuous evangelism.

 

Wow, good example. That dude has been waaaaaay more provocative than me.

 

Yet I don't want to see him suspended. Has provides an alternative point of view, which might be legitimate. This new precedent is ridiculous. Anyone can be seen as provocative here! And provocative isn't even a bad thing. Reacting to it in a way that breaks the rules IS.

 

"And you might as well suspend me now because I am going to be deliberately and continuously provocative about the way the moderation is being managed here on TaoBums.

 

Stig, guess what…that's probably going to happen! This moderation team is not above it. They do not accept people disrespecting them and their decisions.

 

You might as well quit, because it's obviously completely useless to attempt to engage these guys. You might want to speak to Sean directly and avoid my folly.

 

"But it is because of the way moderation is run that it has gotten here.

 

Exactly. If there was no moderation, Seth and I would have worked things out easily. This forum functioned awesomely in the past without mods. It is in a much worse state these days BECAUSE of them. Funny.

 

Or if the moderators did their jobs appropriately, it would have ended quickly with Seth getting suspended, and everyone moving forward.

 

Instead, Mal, Apech and others wished to cause a shit storm here…and make it personal against me for no legitimate reason.

 

The team needs a switch up.

 

"Currently the process is too reliant on just a handful of people

 

Yes, there are other moderators who don't seem to do much…who might be more useful. Mal needs to lose the position, and those others need to step up and have their attempt at moderating justly. Get the ones who are incapable out of there.

 

Once a majority or consensus decision has been reached by involved parties then, and only then, do the moderators carry out the formal action that the members decided upon.

 

It would work…maybe not so well in all cases. Take this one for example. Only 3 people as far as I know have supported me here…whereas tons of others felt the need to side with the Buddhist brigade and their supporters.

 

So maybe it's a good idea…but the way I see things, it's very simple and requires little change:

 

Have clear rules. If someone breaks the rules, suspend them. If it's a minor slip up, warn them once before suspending. No one should be suspended without a clear reason, showing a violation of the rules here.

 

That is it…not hard at all. Unless we have moderators who are incapable of functioning objectively. The ones who are incapable shouldn't have the position. Soooo simple.

 

Just my take on your ideas. (it's quite amazing that they haven't been addressed by any moderators yet…what is up with these people?)

[Sunya]

Exactly. If there was no moderation, Seth and I would have worked things out easily. This forum functioned awesomely in the past without mods. It is in a much worse state these days BECAUSE of them. Funny.

 

Uhhh, you were the one who was throwing a hissy fit because you got insulted, started this thread, and whined like crazy to get Seth banned.

[scotty2000]

Uhhh, you were the one who was throwing a hissy fit because you got insulted, started this thread, and whined like crazy to get Seth banned.

 

Yeah, because insults are against the rules here.

 

It's crazy that I had to resort to being so loud in order to get the moderators to act.

[scotty2000]

It's also crazy how Sunya is still not suspended. TOTALLY blows my mind.

[scotty2000]

His posts in this thread...clearly breaking the forum rules.

 

1. I chose to tell you how much of an arrogant snob you are in private.

 

2. at least sheds some light on who we're dealing with, a very angry and mentally unstable individual who doesn't like being called out on his shit.

 

3. my god Scott you're acting like such a drama queen.

 

4. can you stop acting like such a rape victim

Edited September 8, 2011 by scotty7000

[scotty2000]

On the subject of being provocative:

 

Uhhh, you were the one who was throwing a hissy fit because you got insulted, started this thread, and whined like crazy to get Seth banned.

 

This is provocative as well as disrespectful, personally insulting, harassing, etc. Why is he still here? Moderators: someone please plainly answer this question.

Edited September 8, 2011 by scotty7000

[Procurator]

[dawei]

His posts in this thread...clearly breaking the forum rules.

 

 

1. I chose to tell you how much of an arrogant snob you are in private.

 

2. at least sheds some light on who we're dealing with, a very angry and mentally unstable individual who doesn't like being called out on his shit.

 

3. my god Scott you're acting like such a drama queen.

 

4. can you stop acting like such a rape victim

I will quickly agree here... since if this is acceptable language then it becomes everyday language. You cannot later suspend based on such attacks.

 

If you truly have to 'think' it, then your wrong... sorry to see Tianshi mention another prejudice. It seems to add up to some degree to me.

 

I think it just calls for some introspection as to what the moderations are here for.

[Sunya]

Yeah, because insults are against the rules here.

 

It's crazy that I had to resort to being so loud in order to get the moderators to act.

 

You just said "If there was no moderation, Seth and I would have worked things out easily." Why didn't you work things out with Seth anyway? Why whine to the mods instead?

 

On the subject of being provocative:

 

This is provocative as well as disrespectful, personally insulting, harassing, etc. Why is he still here? Moderators: someone please plainly answer this question.

 

lol I'm not being provocative. I'm stating the facts. This whole thread is one big hissy fit. You were whining like crazy to the mods to get Seth banned, and now you're attacking the mods and saying "we could've worked things out without the mods." WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU THEN?

Edited September 8, 2011 by Sunya

[scotty2000]

You just said "If there was no moderation, Seth and I would have worked things out easily." Why didn't you work things out with Seth anyway? Why whine to the mods instead?

 

Why did he and others whine that I was "bullying" the Buddhists?

 

The answer to both questions is because this forum has rules and we all want to see them enforced, so that relatively peaceful and productive discussion can ensue.

 

Simple. Now piss off.

[Stigweard]

 

About sums up where we are with this

[Sunya]

Why did he and others whine that I was "bullying" the Buddhists?

 

You're the one that started this thread

 

The answer to both questions is because this forum has rules and we all want to see them enforced, so that relatively peaceful and productive discussion can ensue.

 

Simple. Now piss off.

 

You just said:

 

"If there was no moderation, Seth and I would have worked things out easily. This forum functioned awesomely in the past without mods. It is in a much worse state these days BECAUSE of them. Funny."

 

If the forum functions so awesomely without mods and you could've worked things out, I ask you again for the third time why you started whining to the mods instead of working things out?