Yin Yang

[ffvii]

Is there any situation or thing to which the Yin Yang does not apply to?

[ChiDragon]

Is there any situation or thing to which the Yin Yang does not apply to?

 

The intimacy between two persons with the same sex....???

[Bubbles]

Is there any situation or thing to which the Yin Yang does not apply to?

 

Wuji but Wuji is neither a thing or a situation.

[Marblehead]

Yin and Yang are the polarities of Chi. Chi permeates all things.

[steve]

The intimacy between two persons with the same sex....???

Even if the participants have the same gender there will Yin and Yang aspects to the relationship and the physical activity.

[Marblehead]

Even if the participants have the same gender there will Yin and Yang aspects to the relationship and the physical activity.

 

I was going to mention that but decided to leave it for someone else.

[ChiDragon]

Even if the participants have the same gender there will Yin and Yang aspects to the relationship and the physical activity.

 

Such as....???

[ChiDragon]

I was going to mention that but decided to leave it for someone else.

 

Haven't I given a direct answer to the original question...???

Edited August 25, 2011 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I was going to mention that but decided to leave it for someone else.

Me three...

[ChiDragon]

OK, you three...

Please be more specific and give me some intelligent answers.

[Bubbles]

Please be more specific and give me some intelligent answers.

 

I guess you are just kidding right? you are just playing a sort of game with people here with your questions.. but I will give my answer and see if it confirms my guess.

 

For example, have a look into Huangdi Neijing chap 3 and chap 4. It explains that yin and yang are the foundations of life and that the human body as a microcosm has yin and yang aspects.You can deduce yourself that it is a gross mistake to say that male are yang only and female yin only.Thus, people of same sex can have yin/yang interactions. But I really wonder why you ask: you know that already since you do that in Tui Shou.

[ChiDragon]

I guess you are just kidding right? you are just playing a sort of game with people here with your questions.. but I will give my answer and see if it confirms my guess.

 

1. For example, have a look into Huangdi Neijing chap 3 and chap 4. It explains that yin and yang are the foundations of life and that the human body as a microcosm has yin and yang aspects.

 

2. You can deduce yourself that it is a gross mistake to say that male are yang only and female yin only.Thus, people of same sex can have yin/yang interactions. But I really wonder why you ask: you know that already since you do that in Tui Shou.

 

1. The Yin-Yang applies to all aspects in the universal. "Huangdi Neijing chap 3 and chap 4. It explains that yin and yang are the foundations of life and that the human body as a microcosm has yin and yang aspects" were just one of the applications used in the human life. It was only a subordination of the Yin-Yang concept.

 

2. The point I was trying to make was the natural relationship between the human beings under the Yin-Yang concept should be a male and female. As a normal relationship spelled out in the concept, without the male it cannot reproduce; without the female it cannot bear. This is the first step of the fundamental concept. However, I had three responses skipped the first step but given me a secondary answer beyond the definition in the first step.

[Bubbles]

1. The Yin-Yang applies to all aspects in the universal. "Huangdi Neijing chap 3 and chap 4. It explains that yin and yang are the foundations of life and that the human body as a microcosm has yin and yang aspects" were just one of the applications used in the human life. It was only a subordination of the Yin-Yang concept.

 

2. The point I was trying to make was the natural relationship between the human beings under the Yin-Yang concept should be a male and female. As a normal relationship spelled out in the concept, without the male it cannot reproduce; without the female it cannot bear. This is the first step of the fundamental concept. However, I had three responses skipped the first step but given me a secondary answer beyond the definition in the first step.

 

If you take the time to search you will find that same sex relationships can be found in nature. So I would not fool around about defining what is natural. I am not the supreme ruler of nature to know what natural should mean as a concept either in definition or extension. As for what is normal, it is known that normality is just a statistical based concept that reflects a majority and measures the distance from it. You already know as well that Zhuangzi had stated that before: we, as human, are really insigificant when it comes to rule the world with our biased views.

 

My guess what right, you like to ask questions and have already your specific answers you want people to find. As long as there are bums here liking this kind of game this is fine with me.

No to offend you ChiDragon, just stating the bubbles that come into my mind.

[ChiDragon]

Let's not get too personal. I am just repeating what the books said. There are some unwanted truths most of us would like to be ignored. So what, let it be.

 

 

Edited to add:

I'll not try to call it a game that someone was playing if I don't agree with an opposition. If I don't accept it, I will said so and state my reason or just ignore it. I wouldn't be too personal about it.

Edited August 25, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

let it be.

 

The Beatles did a song of that title.

[Bubbles]

Let's not get too personal.

 

I really agree you know, but if you think you know something valuable why not directly sharing it and offering it to the community?

 

I am just repeating what the books said. There are some unwanted truths most of us would like to be ignored. So what, let it be.

 

If we say that Daoists take nature as a model, it means that they can't superimpose on nature whatever they think nature is. Homosexuality can be found in nature. So what to think? That homosexuality can be found in nature. This is a fact. Now, of course to give birth, some yin and yang interactions are necessary. No argument here. It is just that "natural" should be used with caution, as every word. This is also found in Daodejing and Zhuangzi.

[ChiDragon]

You see, 自然(Zi Ren) means "natural" and was well defined in the Tao Te Ching. Somehow, "natural" in the West was defined differently from the Tao Te Ching. I had encountered with many difficulties when I use the words "natural" or "Nature" on the internet.

 

Let me explain how the Nature was defined in the Tao Te Ching. In the Tao Te Ching, LaoTze had used four separate entities to separate human from Nature. They are Tao, Heaven, Earth, and Human.

 

Here is the way I understood it. Heaven and Earth were considered to be Nature. Human is not part of nature but human has to deal with Nature. That was why LaoTze says Human follows Earth; Earth follows Heaven; Heaven follows Tao; and Tao follow Zi Ren.

Edited August 25, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Bubbles]

There are some unwanted truths most of us would like to be ignored. So what, let it be.

 

I understand but I can't see- if I try to assume a Daoist way of understanding- any truth that does not ultimately to fact- be it an observation or an experience (including the most mystical). In this regard an "unwanted truth" is just some idea that comes out of intellectual blindness (denying facts or lack of experience). I am not gay. But I can see there are both in human and animal realms. This is it. Who am I to say that yin/yang does not apply to them?

[Bubbles]

You see, 自然(Zi Ren) means "natural" and was well defined in the Tao Te Ching. Somehow, "natural" in the West was defined differently from the Tao Te Ching. I had encountered with many difficulties when I use the words "natural" or "Nature" on the internet.

 

Let me explain how the Nature was defined in the Tao Te Ching. In the Tao Te Ching, LaoTze had used four separate entities to separate human from Nature. They are Tao, Heaven, Earth, and Human.

 

Here is the way I understood it. Heaven and Earth were considered to be Nature. Human is not part of nature but human has to deal with Nature. That was why LaoTze says Human follows Earth; Earth follows Heaven; Heaven follows Tao; and Tao follow Zi Ren.

 

Thanks for sharing.

I agree.

[ChiDragon]

I understand but I can't see- if I try to assume a Daoist way of understanding- any truth that does not ultimately to fact- be it an observation or an experience (including the most mystical). In this regard an "unwanted truth" is just some idea that comes out of intellectual blindness (denying facts or lack of experience). I am not gay. But I can see there are both in human and animal realms. This is it. Who am I to say that yin/yang does not apply to them?

 

We are in two different worlds and under the Yin/Yang concept differently. Please read the above post. We should be really have to deal with LaoTze's Yin/Yang concept which was the definition given from the Yi Jing.

[Marblehead]

You see, 自然 means "natural" and was well defined in the Tao Te Ching. Somehow, "natural" in the West was defined differently from the Tao Te Ching. I had encountered with many difficulties when I use the words "natural" or "Nature" on the internet.

 

Let me explain how the Nature was defined in the Tao Te Ching. In the Tao Te Ching, LaoTze had used four separate entities to separate human from Nature. They are Tao, Heaven, Earth, and Human.

 

Here is the way I understood it. Heaven and Earth were considered to be Nature. Human is not part of nature but human has to deal with Nature. That was why LaoTze says Human follows Earth; Earth follows Heaven; Heaven follows Tao; and Tao follow Zi Ren.

 

Ouch! I have to disagree with you here.

 

There is nothing in the universe, or not of the universe, that is not natural. There is Tzu Jan - the naturalness of all things and all non-things. If it can happen it is natural.

 

Two men or two women are attracted to each other. It is natural for people to be attracted to each other.

 

When Lao Tzu spoke of the way of man he was suggesting that man is constantly trying to act in ways that are not natural to man's 'true' nature.

 

Yes, man should follow the ways of earth. That way we would take better care of it.

 

And it is true, some men have more Yin than Yang and some women have more Yang than Yin. These variants will be attracted to the same sex in order to have harmony in their life. Very natural.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Marblehead

[Bubbles]

We are in two different worlds and under the Yin/Yang concept differently. Please read the above post. We should be really have to deal with LaoTze's Yin/Yang concept which was the definition given from the Yi Jing.

Can you elaborate more on this? What specific definition are you working from?

Edited August 25, 2011 by bubbles

[ChiDragon]

Ouch! I have to disagree with you here.

 

There is nothing in the universe, or not of the universe, that is not natural. There is Tzu Jan - the naturalness of all things and all non-things. If it can happen it is natural.

 

Two men or two women are attracted to each other. It is natural for people to be attracted to each other.

 

When Lao Tzu spoke of the way of man he was suggesting that man is constantly trying to act in ways that are not natural to man's 'true' nature.

 

Yes, man should follow the ways of earth. That way we would take better care of it.

 

And it is true, some men have more Yin than Yang and some women have more Yang than Yin. These variants will be attracted to the same sex in order to have harmony in their life. Very natural.

 

Ouch...!!! Here again, you cannot unlearn your Western thinking. I grant you "if it can happen it is natural." However, nature does and can make errors. If, and only if, you want to consider those errors caused by Nature are natural, then it is natural.

 

Edited to add...

LaoTze did not specify what was being abnormal. However, he did vigorously pointed out what was being normal. Thus he gives an indication that anything was not normal as defined will be abnormal.

Edited August 25, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

Ouch...!!! Here again, you cannot unlearn your Western thinking. I grant you "if it can happen it is natural." However, nature does and can make errors. If, and only if, you want to consider those errors caused by Nature are natural, then it is natural.

 

Hehehe. Tao makes no errors. Sorry about that. Just the way it is. Errors are seen in man's eyes, not Tao's.

 

Everything is just the way it is supposed to be. Perfect. Can't be otherwise.

[Bubbles]

Ouch...!!! Here again, you cannot unlearn your Western thinking. I grant you "if it can happen it is natural." However, nature does and can make errors. If, and only if, you want to consider those errors caused by Nature are natural, then it is natural.

 

I would be very interested to see where one can find in Daodejing or Zhuangzi any reference to nature making "errors".To say the least this word here sounds very weird

 

If you can have access to a good library, please find and read _ sexual life in ancient china_ by R. Van Gulik you will see that Chinese culture from people to emperors had some very tolerant views about homosexuality.

 

I am leaving this discussion here. Thanks