Etymology of Wu Wei

[dawei]

The "lead/nurture like a dancing shaman" brings to mind Chapter 29 of DDJ. The shaman works with the forces of nature to bring healing, health, and harmony. This is the same for applying Wu Wei -- one treats the situation/object as though sacred and does not impose anything out of it's nature. Thus, viewing Wu Wei as "nurture like a Shaman" seems to illuminate the meaning, in my present opinion.

 

Ch. 29 (Dawei, I remember you didn't feel "sacred" was appropriately used for this chapter. Not sure if that negates the understanding/meaning hwv.):

I don't like 'sacred' because of the way the word tends to elevate whatever it is referring to. I probably have less a problem using the idea of sacred in regards to the Shamans than Wu Wei. I might just say it is as treating something as if returning to its source. In a way, that's what I think the Shaman was trying to do.

[Stigweard]

Very much enjoying the line of discussion. Just saying

[Riyue]

Excuse the apparent double-up on other current threads. I am just setting this up for my own indexing

 

 

 

 

Maybe this is interesting for you:

 

 

Guodian A19 (chapter 2) uses for

 

Maybe this points to the aspect of entering an hidden corner - which is maybe the central idea of wu2

Dancing mediating a trance - mediating the access for the hidden world which we cannot see, hear, grasp

[Marblehead]

 

Maybe this points to the aspect of entering an hidden corner - which is maybe the central idea of wu2

Dancing mediating a trance - mediating the access for the hidden world which we cannot see, hear, grasp

 

Well, it is interesting for me even though I cannot speak much to it. I'm sure Stig and others can though.

[ChiDragon]

is 亡(wang) which is interchangeable with 無(wu2).

 

PS...

This was mentioned once before.

[Stigweard]

Maybe this is interesting for you:

 

 

Guodian A19 (chapter 2) uses for

 

Maybe this points to the aspect of entering an hidden corner - which is maybe the central idea of wu2

Dancing mediating a trance - mediating the access for the hidden world which we cannot see, hear, grasp

Yes, thank you for adding this

[ChiDragon]

One thing that I think is interesting is that it is not just "wu wei".

 

It is "wei wu wei". Doing, not doing. Yang/yin. A cycle.

 

"You Wei" vs "Wu Wei" would be valid for the Yang/Yin concept, but it is not a cycle. Normally, LaoTze would only preferred one way. You're only "You Wei" once for the intent to be "Wu Wei", then the rest of the time that you are Wu Wei.

 

@Marblehead: "Hehehe. Did I state the obvious once again?"

Perhaps, you were not...!!!

[Marblehead]

 

@Marblehead: "Hehehe. Did I state the obvious once again?"

Perhaps, you were not...!!!

 

Yeah, I never know for sure unless someone tells me.

[Apech]

Hill empty of trees and dancing female shaman ... I like the fact that there are both images.

 

Just a word for the hill (since everyone else seems to like the dancing shaman ... for obvious reasons I guess).

 

Hill with trees ... the hill has trees and could be said to be 'a treed hill' or a 'wooded hill' ... remove the trees and you have just 'hill'. What has changed? Compare ...the subject has predicate .. remove the predicate and you have only subject.

 

Something is happening ... a dance ... the dancer and the dance ... the person and the pattern of movement ... remove the predicates and you just have 'dancing' ...

 

Hmmm ok carry on ...

Edited July 28, 2011 by Apech
grammar

[Marblehead]

Hill empty of trees and dancing female shaman ... I like the fact that there are both images.

 

Just a word for the hill (since everyone else seems to like the dancing shaman ... for obvious reasons I guess).

 

Hill with trees ... the hill has trees and could be said to be 'a treed hill' or a 'wooded hill' ... remove the trees and you have just 'hill'. What has changed? Compare ...the subject has predicate .. remove the predicate and you have only subject.

 

Something is happening ... a dance ... the dancer and the dance ... the person and the pattern of movement ... remove the predicates and you just have 'dancing' ...

 

Hmmm ok carry on ...

 

My imagination went astray with that post. I imagined a naked female shaman dancing in the hills covered with trees.

 

Geeezzzee!!!!!

[Apech]

My imagination went astray with that post. I imagined a naked female shaman dancing in the hills covered with trees.

 

Geeezzzee!!!!!

 

Was she well endowed ... with the spirit?

[Riyue]

Hill empty of trees and dancing female shaman ... I like the fact that there are both images.

 

Just a word for the hill (since everyone else seems to like the dancing shaman ... for obvious reasons I guess).

 

Hill with trees ... the hill has trees and could be said to be 'a treed hill' or a 'wooded hill' ... remove the trees and you have just 'hill'. What has changed? Compare ...the subject has predicate .. remove the predicate and you have only subject.

 

Something is happening ... a dance ... the dancer and the dance ... the person and the pattern of movement ... remove the predicates and you just have 'dancing' ...

 

Hmmm ok carry on ...

The idea of a forest - removed trees ... we can find at Wieger Lesson I,J

In shuowen we find rendered as 豐 fullness...(the character of wang - entering the corner is not added here!)

I think it is not necessary to interprete the adding of wang as removing the trees...

What is your idea about the meaning of adding the wang here?

[Apech]

The idea of a forest - removed trees ... we can find at Wieger Lesson I,J

In shuowen we find rendered as 豐 fullness...(the character of wang - entering the corner is not added here!)

I think it is not necessary to interprete the adding of wang as removing the trees...

What is your idea about the meaning of adding the wang here?

 

I understood the character to mean a hill with trees removed based on Stigs posts above.

[Marblehead]

Was she well endowed ... with the spirit?

 

Yes, she was very spiritual, in fact, heavenly!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Just gonna put in that I found myself using "Dance With Tao" in my head. I think it would have been there even without this Etymology, but nonetheless, with this I'm seeing that Wu Wei is the same principle. Interesting..

[on the path]

Just add my little thoughts here about the character 'wu'; shaman. There is also another name for a dancing shaman 'feng Shi' and from what I know both are associated with dancing and 'feathers'. Although primarily female dancing shamans are more to do with male fantasies!! Both male and female shamans would dance in set patterns holding various objects that were associated with the rite or spirit they wished to invite. Today modern shamans use swords, flags, fly whisks, palm leaves etc and dance a routine according to the rite. Some hold the Dao De Jhing in their hands, the tong su, and amulets drawn from another occasion. Some dance and spread holy water, some dance with many people entranced who then receive the healing that they require. Both characters to my knowledge have their roots in 'a feathery person dancing'.

[lienshan]

[Riyue]

[Stigweard]

"Anything a person "does" makes trouble or disturbs that person's spiritual purity. Any single action taken does not maintain the wholeness of the soul any more. In depth, this means that anyone who can act and still maintain original wholeness is doing a high spiritual practice. If you project any thoughts, desire or action other than what is necessary, they are all considered a downfall. So spiritually, not doing anything extra, or not overdoing anything, is considered the highest principle."

 

Hua-Ching Ni, Chapter 7 of "Mystical Universal Mother".

[Marblehead]

"Anything a person "does" makes trouble or disturbs that person's spiritual purity. Any single action taken does not maintain the wholeness of the soul any more. In depth, this means that anyone who can act and still maintain original wholeness is doing a high spiritual practice. If you project any thoughts, desire or action other than what is necessary, they are all considered a downfall. So spiritually, not doing anything extra, or not overdoing anything, is considered the highest principle."

 

Well, you know that I agree with that.

[Stigweard]

Well, you know that I agree with that.

Yup, I knew you would

[aridus]

They all have being and not being.

 

They all have empty parts. They all have lines or strokes around the empty parts.

 

The accordance of the way the empty is empty and the way a stroke is not empty, both working in harmony, is how we distinguish them.

 

"Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub;

It is the center hole that makes it useful.

Shape clay into a vessel;

It is the space within that makes it useful.

Cut doors and windows for a room;

It is the holes which make it useful.

Therefore profit comes from what is there;

Usefulness from what is not there."

[Stigweard]

Rainy_Day has added this elsewhere:

 

...the definition given in Shuowenjiezi, one of the earliest and most authoritative dictionaries in Classical Chinese, is:

 

祝也。女能事無形，以舞降神者也。象人兩褎舞形。與工同意。古者巫咸初作巫。凡巫之屬皆从巫。𠮎，古文巫。武扶切

 

A person who prays. A woman who can serve the formless, using dance to cause spirits to descend. The character shows the form of a person dancing with her two sleeves. This is synonymous with "gong" (worker).* In ancient times, Wu Xian (a person's name) is written as "Wu". Everything relating to "wu" has the radical for "wu"...

 

*The dictionary uses this explanation, because the character "wu" contains the character "gong".

 

But other dictionaries contradict this definition, especially by distinguishing the incantator (zhu, the person who prays) from the shaman (wu).

[chuangzu]

This is a very interesting topic and one I have researched myself from the Wikipedia article. I have written a new post about the links with Tai Chi and Shamanism.

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42780-tai-chi-and-shamanism/?p=725467

 

One thing I found interesting about the above is the sleeves, I heard that Tai Chi masters with longer sleeves denoted a higher status. I will try to find the original Hopkins article on Wu Shamans and further elucidate the etymological connection with Wu meaning either dancing, or 'not'.