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DanC

Natural Viagra

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Yesterday I was at my acupuncturist when he told me he had a new herbal formula

from China which is comprised of 10 herbs, he told me if I take 1 capsule 1hour

before sex it would work alot stronger then Viagra, he said it was a tonic which would

strengthen my sexual organs and glands. I bought 2 and gave one to a friend who said

he would trial it with his girlfiend, Im just curious does anybody know of such a product

and any ideas on what it would contain, the packet is in Chinese except for the words

"Happy Capsule". I guess I will trial and see for more self, stay tuned to see if it does

work like Viagra.

 

Dnniel

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Yesterday I was at my acupuncturist when he told me he had a new herbal formula

from China which is comprised of 10 herbs, he told me if I take 1 capsule 1hour

before sex it would work alot stronger then Viagra, he said it was a tonic which would

strengthen my sexual organs and glands. I bought 2 and gave one to a friend who said

he would trial it with his girlfiend, Im just curious does anybody know of such a product

and any ideas on what it would contain, the packet is in Chinese except for the words

"Happy Capsule". I guess I will trial and see for more self, stay tuned to see if it does

work like Viagra.

 

Dnniel

 

 

Be careful with things like that. I have once seen a report about pills like this, showing that often those actually contained the substance itself said to be "replaced"...

 

Harry

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If it's really herbal it probably contains things like Horny Goat Weed, Tribulus, Yohimbe, Long Jack Root, Macuna Puriens, Tongkat Ali ... maybe some Guarana also. I wouldn't take anything without knowing what's in it though.

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Yesterday I was at my acupuncturist when he told me he had a new herbal formula

from China which is comprised of 10 herbs, he told me if I take 1 capsule 1hour

before sex it would work alot stronger then Viagra, he said it was a tonic which would

strengthen my sexual organs and glands. I bought 2 and gave one to a friend who said

he would trial it with his girlfiend, Im just curious does anybody know of such a product

and any ideas on what it would contain, the packet is in Chinese except for the words

"Happy Capsule". I guess I will trial and see for more self, stay tuned to see if it does

work like Viagra.

 

Dnniel

lol..this is so typical of chinese herbalists. if you ask questions in most chinese herbal shops they get extremely annoyed (i know..there are some exceptions). you're just supposed to take it without question. the herbalists in turn hate to talk details (it's good, just take it, very strong). have you ever taken V so you can compare it? basically, V works by inhibiting the breakdown of nitric oxide (NO), which is expanding your arteries and increasing blood flow. this is very simplistic, but V allows the NO to increase faster and stay around longer. no effect on libido, it's just plumbing. so for young(ish) people like us (and for women too), the physical part of excitement takes off like a rocket. a single thought and bam, off u go, like when you were in 7th grade. these herbs work in two ways , 1 to increase desire and 2 to modulate this NO. herbs and vitamins/amino acids like mucuna, tongkat ali, tribulus, zinc, work to modulate testosterone and/or dopamine to increase libido. herbs and vitamins/amino acids like arginine, citrulline, cnidium, goat weed, cocoa (yes chocolate), pycnogenol, gingko, ginseng, modulate NO in various ways by either increasing it or slowing it's breakdown. some work in both ways, like yohimbine, does something to dopamine and at the same time acts like an irritant that results in increased blood flow.

The herbal approaches do work and you can put your own stuff together by playing around with extracts.

I feel that probably 8 out of 10 times the 'happy pills' you buy contain prescription drugs in them.

These 10 ingredients most likely are the NO breakdown inhibitors with a couple libido boosters to boot. My guess would be cistanches, goat weed, he shou wu, lycii, cnidium, korean ginseng, gingko, siberian ginseng rhodiola, and arginine. But if it's expensive..like over 7-8 bucks a pop, then it prob has V or C in it.

Let me know what you discover..

I think these performance enhancers are alot of fun to play with, but be really careful with the 'happy pill' stuff.

Btw, these same substances work wonders for general sports enhancement too..not just the bedroom..

also, this is all just off the top of my head, so take it with a grain of salt..

Later edit...another effect is incredible engorgement..which is satisfying for both you and your partner..but in any case, the increased NO has other effects as well. Believe it or not, the bedroom knowledge I got from this is incidental. NO has implications for immune system which is how I stumbled upon this knowledge, it is also involved with creativity..so you just may find yourself coming up (no pun intended) with some great ideas, poetry, etc. while trying this stuff out. Some are very specific to the reproductive organs (esp. the PDE-5 inhibitors--which affect the eyes too..remember the V/eyesight issue that came to light) but some others act more generally. Anyway, very cool topic..

T

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I havent tried it but Dragonherbs has a product called Tom Kat that is supposed to be very good.

 

Tom Kat

Tongkat ali never did anything for me. I never tried 'ant'..from the description of the effects, it reads like the effects of increased dopamine rather than testosterone..I wonder if 'ant' does that..will do some research on that one..

Cameron, you seem to like these Teeguarden supplements..which ones have you been satisfied with?

T

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My favorites so far(I havent tried all of them) are Supreme Protector, Tonic Alchemy, Tao in a Bottle, Dragon Jing and Super Adaptogen.

 

But Ime working with an herbalist now and mostly taking what she gives me. Though she thinks highly of the dragonherbs I think(as adaptogens and for energy).

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There is an awesome, awesome page at biologyofkundalini. com (or something like that,) that describes the effects of NO... especially in regards to its association with kundalini.

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My favorites so far(I havent tried all of them) are Supreme Protector, Tonic Alchemy, Tao in a Bottle, Dragon Jing and Super Adaptogen.

 

But Ime working with an herbalist now and mostly taking what she gives me. Though she thinks highly of the dragonherbs I think(as adaptogens and for energy).

What's it like working with her..is she chinese or western?

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new herbal formula

from China which is comprised of 10 herbs, he told me if I take 1 capsule 1hour

before sex it would work alot stronger then Viagra, he said it was a tonic which would

strengthen my sexual organs and glands.

Let's face it: most men's problem is not that they can't get excited (yang deficiency), its that they have trouble stabalizing calm (storing yin). Because they can't stay calm, they do too much and deplete themselves. The long term result is that yin becomes exhausted (they burn out) and yang collapses. The solution is not to add more fire (yang), but to restore yin.

 

Adding yang tonics to this, regularly & over the long term, is seriously detrimental: just burns you out more thoroughly, more quickly.

 

The trick is not to spark all your charge just before sex, its about learning to steady, cool, and restore in the times between sexual romps.

 

Your acupuncturist is giving you a yang tonic; if you decide to use, use sparingly.

 

(And, obviously, I'm just talking about an average situation; I have no idea about you specifically.)

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He assured me it was all natural, reports from other customers are that

it works better then Viagra and some people can have sex upto 5 times per

night.

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He assured me it was all natural, ..

I was commenting within the context of all natural Chinese herbs. "Natural" does not equal "safe".

 

reports from other customers are that it works better then Viagra and some people can have sex up to 5 times per night.
It's a strong yang tonic. And I'm not discounting that there's some fun there.

 

I don't think you understood my previous post, and I suggest you re-read it. No disrespect meant.

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He assured me it was all natural, reports from other customers are that

it works better then Viagra and some people can have sex upto 5 times per

night.

hi dan, there are no 'new' herbals. i would have to question your guy's integrity or naivete (sp?).

the problem with these pills in the herb shops is they don't list the prescription drugs in them, so not only is it illegal, but there are potential serious health ramifications..first there is possible contamination with poisons like metals and other things becuase it's not regulated, then there are dosage problems again cause it's not regulated, and there are issues with interactions with other things you might be taking that you are not aware of because you don't know what's in there. it might not be as simple as V or C, it could have chemicals that affect your dopamine levels--which can mess up anti-depressants, interactions with alcohol, etc. etc. So, that's why this stuff should not be willy nilly passed off by reputable 'doctors'. If he compounded the extracts himself, then maybe you can trust his assertion that it's 'all natural'..otherwise just be careful, that's all.

and if you can get a chinese friend or your acupuncturist to list the herbs, that would be cool to see in any case..

T

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Some folks use the ol' "ancient chinese formula" mystique to sell dodgy or inaffective formulas.

Seems to me that "spending your Jing" 5 times a night is a quick path to sickness and exhaustion with or without some kind of formula.

Having said that Maca root seems to be good for getting the sexual energy flowing. And of course you don't necessarily need to "spend" that energy.

There are lots of good organic sources for Maca searchable on the web.

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Some folks use the ol' "ancient chinese formula" mystique to sell dodgy or inaffective formulas.

Seems to me that "spending your Jing" 5 times a night is a quick path to sickness and exhaustion with or without some kind of formula.

Having said that Maca root seems to be good for getting the sexual energy flowing. And of course you don't necessarily need to "spend" that energy.

There are lots of good organic sources for Maca searchable on the web.

Couple thoughts..first on the jing..i know this is what we've been 'taught' regarding TCM and our taoist practices..but I'll be darned..I know more than a few guys that are spending jing daily and you know what, they are not weak at all, so part of me thinks this is just an old wives tale. Now, some of us, including myself, do feel a 'loss' after spending jing, but it's not that bad, and maybe it's all in my head and maybe i'm thinking i could just get used to like I did weight training and eventually become stronger. At least one of my friends has a firm belief that it makes him stronger to keep doing it and it seems to work for him. He'll often do it three times a day and feels weak if he doesn't do it. So I don't know..

I'm always on the lookout for jing restoratives, so far haven't found anything that works consistently. I have maca root at home, but never really got into it. It's just a potato and the Peruvians don't seem to be super specimens of health, longevity and sexuality..so not sure..tell me more about your experiences with it.

T

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thaddeus, I notice the effects of jing depletion most significantly in deep meditation. When I am "full with jing" my meditations are much richer, and after one month of retention it's like a whole different ballpark. Outside of the subtleties of a meditation practice I think it really varies from guy to guy how much jing loss will be noticed. Obviously some guys claim to see no effect at all. But then there athletes that will never ejaculate before a big performance. Napoleon Hill also found it important to the manifestion of wealth to redirect sexual energies toward our higher purpose.

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My acupunturist/TCM doctor is a man of few words, I asked him what was in it and he

replied "just some hebs from my province in China", I like the guy he has helped

me alot over the last few years and is a very smart man, but Chinese doctors want you

to just follow there advice and dont ask questions, I asked him about his beliefs and

he is a Daoist who is a Chi Kung practitioner, his favourite words are very good, makes you

strong, much energy, more chi.

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I have no knowledge of herbs but wanted to add something about jing. I usually feel when ejaculating that I lost energy. However with practice of qigong and retention for a while that changes. Sean said that when he`s "full with jing" his meditations are much richer etc., for me that`s not quite so, at least not now.

 

From recent experience I have found that when qigong builds up my energy and if I use retention (doesn`t have to be very long right now, a week or so, reduces with practice I guess), I become full as well.

The difference however is, that I can`t get myself to practice qigong anymore because of this fullness. So when I`ve "blown the load" next, I felt very little energy leaving me, felt like I could do it again almost at once, and was able to get myself to practice qigong easily again. More than loss, it feels like a relief. A safety valve maybe?

 

So I`m not sure how good retention is all by itself...

I do think though, that microcosmic orbit and sexual practice, which I plan on starting shortly, should rectify this.

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Thaddeus, The Maca is subtle for me but it definitely does stimulate the latent sexual energy, before it heads for the genitals. I notice it more when I am doing meditation or tai chi than anything else.

As for Jing depletion I notice a lot of problems when I am overly sexual. My vision is less sharp, I get exhausted easily, my immune system is weakened, I lose focus, access to the dantien seems to be denied, my tai chi practice feels like it has lost its power. Then again I suppose that all could be psycho-somatic, because I didn't notice it until I became aware of the "old wives tale."

I have heard one explanation that says ejaculation empties and closes the gates of the dantien. Makes sense and seems accurate from what I experience.

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thaddeus, I notice the effects of jing depletion most significantly in deep meditation. When I am "full with jing" my meditations are much richer, and after one month of retention it's like a whole different ballpark. Outside of the subtleties of a meditation practice I think it really varies from guy to guy how much jing loss will be noticed. Obviously some guys claim to see no effect at all. But then there athletes that will never ejaculate before a big performance. Napoleon Hill also found it important to the manifestion of wealth to redirect sexual energies toward our higher purpose.

Even as kid before I ever heard about any of this stuff, I noticed a general tiredness the next day, like I needed a little more sleep. Then when I got my first girlfriend, I noticed there wasn't that tired feeling the next day, so intuitively I sensed there was something going on. Scientfically, one can probably say the exchange of fluids must somehow restore that substance, or Jing, hormone whatever. Someone involved in energy work would say the partner balanced my energy somewhat. Ever since that i've been very curious about the loss of energy. I really think there is something to choosing the right partner. If you read the bedroom chamber book, the description of the ideal partner for a man seems to describe a woman with an abundance of estrogen. There really are some partners that make you feel like a million bucks the next day and some where you feel like a mack truck hit you.

T

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My acupunturist/TCM doctor is a man of few words, I asked him what was in it and he

replied "just some hebs from my province in China", I like the guy he has helped

me alot over the last few years and is a very smart man, but Chinese doctors want you

to just follow there advice and dont ask questions, I asked him about his beliefs and

he is a Daoist who is a Chi Kung practitioner, his favourite words are very good, makes you

strong, much energy, more chi.

This hits a nerve for me because I feel there is a dark side to this attitude. First is the obvious--it's hard to find a decent herbal shop in nyc that isn't a.)selling inferior cheap BS herbs b.) outright ripping 'tourists' off. I once pointed out to an herbal shop owner the difference between 'alrodeer pills' and 'alrodear pills'. She kept insisting one had deerhorn in it and was getting annoyed with the 'guilo' acting like I knew something. I finally made her read the ingredients and she brushed me off angrily when she realized she was just plain wrong. I can't tell you how many times stuff is mislabeled and the owners are saying 'very good' 'very strong' not caring the least about the adage 'do no harm'. Yes, there must be reputable acupuncturists and herbal shop owners, I'm not saying they are all bad. But for the most part, they are really banking on the placebo effect, because most of the stuff is garbage.

I hope you're not taking this the wrong way, 'cause I don't really know how you found this guy and what your background, knowledge, etc. Maybe I'm insulting your intelligence. I'm really just sounding off because this attitude really annoys me. People in the healing professions have a responsibility to their 'partners' in healing. My feeling is if he can't respect you enough to answer your questions or communicate with you, how do you know he's really paying any attention at all. The placebo effect is extremely strong. But the placebo effect doesn't work well with inquiring minds. And if you have an inquiring mind, it's pretty difficult to slip into 'dumb' mode and swallow a pill and accept 'very strong, very good' with the thumb in air...

If you read this far, thanks for indulging my rant..

T

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lol..this is so typical of chinese herbalists. if you ask questions in most chinese herbal shops they get extremely annoyed (i know..there are some exceptions). you're just supposed to take it without question. the herbalists in turn hate to talk details (it's good, just take it, very strong). have you ever taken V so you can compare it? basically, V works by inhibiting the breakdown of nitric oxide (NO), which is expanding your arteries and increasing blood flow. this is very simplistic, but V allows the NO to increase faster and stay around longer. no effect on libido, it's just plumbing. so for young(ish) people like us (and for women too), the physical part of excitement takes off like a rocket. a single thought and bam, off u go, like when you were in 7th grade. these herbs work in two ways , 1 to increase desire and 2 to modulate this NO. herbs and vitamins/amino acids like mucuna, tongkat ali, tribulus, zinc, work to modulate testosterone and/or dopamine to increase libido. herbs and vitamins/amino acids like arginine, citrulline, cnidium, goat weed, cocoa (yes chocolate), pycnogenol, gingko, ginseng, modulate NO in various ways by either increasing it or slowing it's breakdown. some work in both ways, like yohimbine, does something to dopamine and at the same time acts like an irritant that results in increased blood flow.

The herbal approaches do work and you can put your own stuff together by playing around with extracts.

I feel that probably 8 out of 10 times the 'happy pills' you buy contain prescription drugs in them.

These 10 ingredients most likely are the NO breakdown inhibitors with a couple libido boosters to boot. My guess would be cistanches, goat weed, he shou wu, lycii, cnidium, korean ginseng, gingko, siberian ginseng rhodiola, and arginine. But if it's expensive..like over 7-8 bucks a pop, then it prob has V or C in it.

Let me know what you discover..

I think these performance enhancers are alot of fun to play with, but be really careful with the 'happy pill' stuff.

Btw, these same substances work wonders for general sports enhancement too..not just the bedroom..

also, this is all just off the top of my head, so take it with a grain of salt..

Later edit...another effect is incredible engorgement..which is satisfying for both you and your partner..but in any case, the increased NO has other effects as well. Believe it or not, the bedroom knowledge I got from this is incidental. NO has implications for immune system which is how I stumbled upon this knowledge, it is also involved with creativity..so you just may find yourself coming up (no pun intended) with some great ideas, poetry, etc. while trying this stuff out. Some are very specific to the reproductive organs (esp. the PDE-5 inhibitors--which affect the eyes too..remember the V/eyesight issue that came to light) but some others act more generally. Anyway, very cool topic..

T

 

Thaddeus

What a great summary of the formulae within the industry, although what you summarized in a paragraph could easily be fleshed out to a pamphlett if not a small book!

Also, it has not only been alleged, but proven that some unscrupulous manufacturers have illegally added actual pharmaceuticals into their product.

More specific to the original question is the fact that the herbs/ingredients are not shown. while this is not unique to Chinese origin products it is ALWAYS a red flag to me. I want to know what's in that stuff when I take it and would also prefer to know the proportions, though this is often proprietary.

If the purveyor in question does not know what is in the product or does not respect the client enough to try to answer such a question it is not a good sign about his attitude towards his clients.

I personally have adopted a quite regular regimen of Dragonherbs formula for general tonic purposes.

I am regularly taking Reishi, He Shou Wu formula, adaptogen energizer and Schizandra Lyciium tincture (yum). I selected these formulae in consultation with an acupunturist on Staff at Dragonherbs in order to support Jing, Chi and Shen layers. Reishi is my primary jing tonic, Adaptogen energizer my primary Chi tonic and He shoul wu my primary Jing tonic. Though it was not my intention to stimulate libido the result of taking Heshouwu regularly has been very noticeable, especially first thing in the morning. Not that I was unhealthy, but the strength and duration of "morning wood" has been quite surprising. Although this program has not been cheap I feel it has been quite valuable. The herbs used to balance the primary tonics are selected carefully. It is not a case of just using jing stimulants to deplete oneself faster, but rather a base of support upon which to build up the many layers of the body. This is the only way a Taoist should seek to strengthen the libido. Short cuts have a way of coming back around to bite you.

On the subject of Maca. It is somewhat true that it is just a potatoe to the Andean people. However there is some indication that it supports hormonal function in men and women. If you can get quality Maca in bulk and take quite a bit at once it can be a good support food and mild jing tonic in my opinion and experience.

dont bother with pills unless you plan to take like 5000mg per day or more. I would use it in a protein shake or smoothy, closer to the actual use of the Andean people who make a porridge of it.

Tongkat Ali - I was originally skeptical of this ingredient. I think it likely that 90% of what is on the market does not contain sufficient ingredient or high enough quality to have an effect. However, even though I was skeptical I did purchase Dragonherbs version of this to try it out. Since I trust this company I thought it more likely they would have a product which worked. Lo and behold their product does seem to work. With me there is a delay effect. It doesn't work within a couple of hours to increase sexual strength, but seems to work after 4-6 hours. Also it seems to depend upon general energy levels. When generally low in energy it has almost no effect, while when in normal to high general energy state it seems very effective.

All in all I would say pass on this one.

 

I suppose that's enough for now. Thanks for your scholarly input. Care to post any links to further our study of NO? You have picqued my curiosity.

 

Craig

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Thaddeus

What a great summary of the formulae within the industry, although what you summarized in a paragraph could easily be fleshed out to a pamphlett if not a small book!

 

Craig

Thanks Craig, maybe I will write this stuff up in a small e-book. I'll post some good links to NO. So Dragon herbs seems to be a hit..i'm curious with the he shou wu, ( i noticed an increase of horniness when i drank shou wu ji regularly) but how about hair..did you notice any effect on your hair growth/grayness/ or anything? He Shou Wu was shown to increase SOD levels which has a positive effect on NO, which accounts for the stronger morning wood and hair growth..

I tried catuaba extract and although the effects aren't quick, the morning wood problem becomes a problem, i woke up several times in the night from almost painful ones. So it disrupts sleep, but like a good foot massage the pain feels awesome.

But I have this theory about that..I wonder if we took something like that regularly..would it make your 'johnson' grow because of the stretching from the inside? If you think about it, it happens 4-6 times a night in our sleep...so I wonder if we can all get careers as john holmes stand-ins..

(anyway, gotta be careful about the words I choose due to our firewalls, etc.--that's why it sounds so damn corny)

T

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As regards how one feels after ejaculation, one thing that seems to make a huge difference to me, all other variables being more or less unchanged, is whether ejaculation "just happens" or whether it is in any way encouraged, for example if one is trying to bring things to a close because that would suit one's partner.

 

I find if I've encouraged ejaculation at all, by focussing in one place, or concentrating excitement, or deliberately moving faster, then I can feel very depleted, especially if it takes a while.

 

It's as if I've thereby given more of myself than mere fluids.

 

I can find no correlation between retention or otherwise and how meditation is. But then I'm no great shakes at meditation.

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