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recent ponderings over Tao Te Ching chapters 11, 16, 25, 39

along with many posts and topics here on TTB for me it seems,

to be bouncing all around this idea of Unity.

 

i scratched around a little, and found a parallel drawn;

from Hegel

"When the Greeks say that the absolute is one, or when men in modern times

say that it is the highest existence, all determinations are abolished,

and by the merely abstract Being nothing has been expressed except this same

negation, only in an affirmitive form"

 

then if we go to the Wilhelm translation of The Secret of the Golden Flower

in Jung's introduction;

"If we take Tao as the method or conscious way by which to unite what is seperated,

we have probably come quite close to the psychological content of the concept...

Without doubt also, the question of making opposites conscious("conversion") means

reunion with the laws of life represented in the unconscious, and the purpose of this reunion is the attainment of conscious life, or, expressed in Chinese terms,

the bringing about of Tao"

 

the value of Tao lies in its power to reconcile opposites on a higher level of consciousness?

 

Chuang Tzu in his chapter "The Identity of All Things" ;

"This is also that and that is also this"

"Destruction is construction; construction is destruction. There is no destruction or construction. They all fuse into one"

 

when i am out in nature and i view the birds, the trees, the flowers, the sun in the sky, the clouds, and so on, there is an initial differentiation between seer and the objects. but when i penetrate into the reality of all this, there comes a oneness , a unity. suddenly and without reason or purpose i become united with my surroundings.

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Does this ever occur to you from reading the Tao Te Ching. In Chapter 25 and 39, Tao is the ONE or Unity.

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Does this ever occur to you from reading the Tao Te Ching. In Chapter 25 and 39, Tao is the ONE or Unity.

to see unity in multiplicity is one way to the understanding of creativity.

unity can never remain static. it is both static and dynamic at the same once.

the static aspect shows us the changeless. in movement we see it as changes.

with understanding the unity of the multiplicity, we must also see the changeless

within the ever-changing. until we do this we cannot comprehend the power of the great creativity.

when unity remains within itself it is changeless. when it reflects itself it creates.

to understand the complete process of creation, we have to understand the concept of the changeless within the ever-changing.( "there is a point in time when the arrow neither moves or stops")

"the sages contemplate 10,000 years and conceive them as a pure complete oneness"

chuang tzu.

 

obtaining the one, all things lived and grew.

the one is the source of creativity.

"all things" "are created by themselves"

but in each instance of creativity there is the infinite potential of unity.

 

lifting a finger is the slightest of gestures, but when it is viewed from the vantage point of the absolute moment it generates the power of the divine and blossoms

into creative vitality.

obtaining the one, heaven was made clear.

obtaining the one, earth was made stable.

obtaining the one, the gods were made spiritual.

 

relativity which is conditioned by time and space, here the arrow moves from point to point and from second to second. we detect its movement. but

from the absolute view which is free of spatial and temporal limitations

there appears no movement. the arrow moves all the time but at the same time it does not move at all.

lao tzu says the Tao created the One.

 

our understanding of this MUST come intuitively and not logically.

lao tzu has already mentioned before;

"all things are together in action, but i look into their non-action,

for all things are continuously moving, restless, yet each is proceeding

back to it's origin. proceeding back to it's origin means quiescence.

quiescence means being-for -itself. being for itself means the ever- changing

changeless. To understand the ever-changing changeless is to be enlightened"

 

the changeless is the invisible complete oneness.

this was my post in regards to chapter 39

Edited by zerostao

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lao tzu says the Tao created the One....???

 

道法自然

Tao follows its natural self which it is the ONE itself. Thus Tao is the ONE rather than created by itself. No...??? :)

 

obtaining the one, heaven was made clear.

obtaining the one, earth was made stable.

 

Tao = One

obtaining Tao, heaven was made clear.

obtaining Tao, earth was made stable.

Edited by ChiDragon

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TTC chapter 14 Lao Tzu is identifying the Tao as the One which is invisible,

inaudible, unfathomable. It is the same One , past and present, being and non-being,

form and formless.

The One is a unification of duality and multiplicity.

It is the One without opposite. It is infinite and unceasing.

 

The Tao is not merely a concept of a unity of duality. There is also a unity

in multiplicity. A wholeness of the parts.

chapter 11 TTC Lao Tzu says,

"30 spokes joined at the hub.

from their nonbeing

comes the function of the wheel.

 

shape clay into a vessel.

from its nonbeing

comes the function of the vessel."

 

The wheel being the wholeness of the spokes and the vessel the wholeness of the clay.

If I reason that the wheel becomes the wheel becoz it conforms with the priciple

of Tao. That is it posseses Oneness or the unity of multiplicity.

 

However the notion of unity or a synthesis of parts into wholeness is still

far short of conveying the deeper meaning of Tao. It is indivisible and it is also

the source from where all duality and multiplicity come.

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So then the problem becomes, "How do we put our money where our mouth is?"

 

Are we capable of remaining in the One throughout the day and having our every action reflect the Love of the One? Sometimes that One would have us let another car ahead of us in traffic (one of the 3 treasures: never be the first in the world).

 

Sometimes the One would have us share what we have with another, with the intent of expecting nothing in return.

 

Sometimes (in my particular strange case) it means picking up a dead raccoon on the highway and setting it off to the side where it can be reintroduced back into the stream of life.

 

Sometimes it is being kind to someone who is just insufferable.

 

I love the ways of the Sage because it gives us 100% maneuverability in all action or non-action. If we have done the inner cultivation, we have no more buttons to push. We have no more convolutions within our inner psyche to impede the flow of light from the inside (our real self) to the outside (our manifestation). things are in balance of their own accord, and if they're not, then acting with non-action is more often than not the way to see it set 'straight', even if the outcome isn't what you've pictured.

 

Wonderful topic, Zero. Thanks!

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TTC chapter 14 Lao Tzu is identifying the Tao as the One which is invisible,

inaudible, unfathomable. It is the same One , past and present, being and non-being,

form and formless.

The One is a unification of duality and multiplicity.

 

zerostao...

I'm glad that you interpreted it the same way as I did.... ;)

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a deep underlying harmony inherrent in the universe and with us folks too.

the unity of all harmonies which emanates the all-expanding energy that constantly creates a new universe.

without it nothing that is real can be achieved.

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Have you studied Chapter 42...???

1. Tao engenders One;

2. One engenders Two;

3. Two engender Three;

4. Three engender all things.

5. All things with yin on the back and yang in the front.

6. Blend the primordial essences and become harmonized.

 

Line 1 says everything begins with Tao as Unity. Then Unity divided itself into Two.

Line 2 gave the idea that Tao is the duality of Yin and Yang. Yin/Yang is Tao according to the YiJing.

 

1. Yin-Yang : shadow/object.

2. Yin-Yang : rise/fall.

3. Yin-Yang : cold/hot.

4. Yin-Yang : female/male to produce, Three, the third element as a child.

Edited by ChiDragon

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Have you studied Chapter 42...???

1. Tao engenders One;

2. One engenders Two;

3. Two engender Three;

4. Three engender all things.

5. All things with yin on the back and yang in the front.

6. Blend the primordial essences and become harmonized.

 

Line 1 says everything begins with Tao as Unity. Then Unity divided itself into Two.

Line 2 gave the idea that Tao is the duality of Yin and Yang. Yin/Yang is Tao according to the YiJing.

 

1. Yin-Yang : shadow/object.

2. Yin-Yang : rise/fall.

3. Yin-Yang : cold/hot.

4. Yin-Yang : female/male to produce, Three, the third element as a child.

yes chidragon and i did reply to the chp 42 genesis thread that you started.

i agree with you and i also realize there needs to be a return to that unity.

what comes from tao returns to tao.

i also sense that even divided it is undivided.

to achieve tao is the wholeness of all the parts?

 

i am trying with this thread to adress different potential unities. i wanted to go into unity of the self for example.

but it seems that other than manitou, you are the only one visiting this thread :lol:

thanks for your input.

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My brain seems to work on metaphor.

 

If the One were a pile of coal, then we each have a piece of that hot coal inside us. Just waiting to be uncovered. The emanation of the heat and light is the thing we get down to.

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So then the problem becomes, "How do we put our money where our mouth is?"

 

Are we capable of remaining in the One throughout the day and having our every action reflect the Love of the One? Sometimes that One would have us let another car ahead of us in traffic (one of the 3 treasures: never be the first in the world).

 

Sometimes the One would have us share what we have with another, with the intent of expecting nothing in return.

 

Sometimes (in my particular strange case) it means picking up a dead raccoon on the highway and setting it off to the side where it can be reintroduced back into the stream of life.

 

Sometimes it is being kind to someone who is just insufferable.

 

I love the ways of the Sage because it gives us 100% maneuverability in all action or non-action. If we have done the inner cultivation, we have no more buttons to push. We have no more convolutions within our inner psyche to impede the flow of light from the inside (our real self) to the outside (our manifestation). things are in balance of their own accord, and if they're not, then acting with non-action is more often than not the way to see it set 'straight', even if the outcome isn't what you've pictured.

 

Wonderful topic, Zero. Thanks!

I love this. This is exactly the work I'm doing.

When people do things that piss me off, I look to see if I can find the pain inside that is motivating them.

Generally, when we hurt each other it is out of pain.

The better I get at this the more I am able to stay centered and balanced myself.

Driving is GREAT practice.

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Indeed!

 

 

Driving is the best. Standing in line is wonderful as well. It develops one of the Three Treasures of the Sage; Never Be The First. (Lin Yutang's translation). This goes directly to ego. When we're chuck full of self-importance we tend to think our journey is the most important; we get overly irritated if someone pulls in front of us or slows us down. It's at that moment that we can choose to remember (as the Sage) that 'all time and space are ours'. We are right where we're supposed to be. No need for anxiety. If we're late, we're late; life is best lived on Indian time anyways (if we're in a position to do so; I understand that many are not). In fact, here comes even another car....let that guy go by too!

 

Life seems to get kinder along these lines as age and wisdom increases. It's kind of magic.

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My brain seems to work on metaphor.

 

If the One were a pile of coal, then we each have a piece of that hot coal inside us. Just waiting to be uncovered. The emanation of the heat and light is the thing we get down to.

 

 

Hi Manitou!

 

It seems we share the metaphor brain thing....hope we aren't too

contagious!

 

Very beautifully stated. We all share the same stuff. We are the One,

reintroductions all around... for no one is truly separate. It is

only the illusion of separateness that continues life's discord.

 

To see the oneness of all, would mean respect and love for all.

 

The world is one...as well.

 

One world among infinite, existing within the coalescence that is

this universe. Everything part of the other, all interconnected.

 

There is only One, and It is everything.

 

Peace!

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existing within the coalescence

 

 

The synchronicity of you using the word coal-escence and my coal metaphor makes me smile. :lol:

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The synchronicity of you using the word coal-escence and my coal metaphor makes me smile. :lol:

:) ever have some uncanny coincidence? some unlikely conjunction of events?

a startling serendepity? a book mysteriously falls off a bookshelf and when you pick it up, it says exactly what you needed to hear/read?

 

well , so many dismiss this sort of thing as the law of averages playing out ,or

suggest that you "lay off the spicy stuff" :lol:

 

was jung right?, he is generally given credit for the term >synchronicity.

when he suggests that it is a glimpse to the underlying order of the universe?

"acasual connecting principle" he further states that this "underlying

connectedness" manifests itself thru meaningful coincidence that is not easily explained by cause and effect.

to read more of A Wink From the Cosmos by Meg Lundstrum

http://www.flowpower.com/What%20is%20Synchronicity.htm

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:) ever have some uncanny coincidence? some unlikely conjunction of events?

a startling serendepity? a book mysteriously falls off a bookshelf and when you pick it up, it says exactly what you needed to hear/read?

 

 

 

Constantly, friend.

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Tao is definitely NOT the ONE. That seems just a silly interpretation of burying one's head in a singular book (or two).

 

Tao is the method, process, or way that the One operations, functions or generations. Tao is like the "rules of a game"; saying how it will 'unfold'. The Game itself, once it arises, is the One. The rules are never real but a construct of what can occur. What actually occurs, IS.

 

The problem, as I see it, is well described by the three realm described in medical qigong:

1. Physical

2. Energetic

3. Spiritual

 

If you are in the first two levels alone, you can only think about physical life, physical laws, and think that Tao as One. Once you get to the next level, you will let go of all that and discover something bigger than books and Lao Zi; something bigger than 3 level explanations. YMMV.

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Tao is definitely NOT the ONE. That seems just a silly interpretation of burying one's head in a singular book (or two).

 

Tao is the method, process, or way that the One operations, functions or generations. Tao is like the "rules of a game"; saying how it will 'unfold'. The Game itself, once it arises, is the One. The rules are never real but a construct of what can occur. What actually occurs, IS.

 

The problem, as I see it, is well described by the three realm described in medical qigong:

1. Physical

2. Energetic

3. Spiritual

 

If you are in the first two levels alone, you can only think about physical life, physical laws, and think that Tao as One. Once you get to the next level, you will let go of all that and discover something bigger than books and Lao Zi; something bigger than 3 level explanations. YMMV.

 

 

Your point is well taken. I think the reason people sometimes refer to the Tao as the One is because there is a place in which we realize that we are exactly as we think. We have control over how we want to think, how we want to perceive. We get to the point where we realize that we are one with all creation, and that includes the lowest and the highest. We are One with people on the other side of the world that may wish to kill us. We are one with the skid row wino. We are one with the richest man. We are one with all beauty and all ugliness, and even then we realize that there is no differentiation between the two. We are one with both sides of the coin. When one is capable of loving all of it, then we have found the One. I think people refer to the Tao as the One (which you're right...it's pretty silly) because that would elevate it over all other paths. The spirit within utilizes all paths to give us the opportunity to experience the One, if only we choose to take it.

The beauty of the Tao is the formlessness.

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Your point is well taken. I think the reason people sometimes refer to the Tao as the One is because there is a place in which we realize that we are exactly as we think. We have control over how we want to think, how we want to perceive. We get to the point where we realize that we are one with all creation, and that includes the lowest and the highest. We are One with people on the other side of the world that may wish to kill us. We are one with the skid row wino. We are one with the richest man. We are one with all beauty and all ugliness, and even then we realize that there is no differentiation between the two. We are one with both sides of the coin. When one is capable of loving all of it, then we have found the One. I think people refer to the Tao as the One (which you're right...it's pretty silly) because that would elevate it over all other paths. The spirit within utilizes all paths to give us the opportunity to experience the One, if only we choose to take it.

The beauty of the Tao is the formlessness.

Your point is well taken.

 

So what is the One?

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if i could only read one book and bury my head in it, it would be the I Ching.

luckily i am not confined to a single book or 2 or even confined to books at all

but books and others thoughts are something i definitely appreciate.

 

the void and the great beginning are one, since when we are in the void, in the one,

there is no room for speech. if we speak of the one then the one becomes the object

and we become as the subject, and oneness would no longer exist in its higher unity.

understanding that we are in the one without speaking of it is approach to

non being thru intuitive knowledge as i have mentioned already.

 

remember lao tzu says "the student of knowledge learns day by day but the student of Tao loses day by day"

 

chaung tzu says "when one is extremely tranquil then the Heavenly Light is given forth.

he who emits this heavenly light sees his real self. he who cultivates his real self achieves the absolute"

 

imo to the taoist, the attainment of absolute reality is to be within the realm of the infinite(non being)

when you reach this realm you have reached the ground of

the great sympathy. it can be reached thru quiescence or thru intuitive knowledge.

this is spoken of in many taoist writings.

quiescence is a gradual way , intuitive is sudden.

 

but the goal is the same in either method. enter into the non-being. non-being manifests itself either as the Heavenly Light or the uncarved block. these are 2 aspects of the same thing. in this realm there is the interfusion and identification of the multiplicity as this takes place one manifests to the great sympathy.

identification and interfussion in this realm of non-being are the functions of the great sympathy. it is the Tao, the higher unity of ALL things.

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The way I'd put it is that the "One" is all states of mind, or that all states of mind exist within the one. (with all states of mind meaning all "things" even extremely fine things including spiritual light) Yet no-thing is connected to all things and all things are connected to no-thing through a "mystery" transformer.

 

Fruther, from TTC Chapter 42 "...only Nothing can enter no-space..." thus speaking of the return way via a transformer or transformation; one might also say that, 'only Nothing can exit no space' via the other way through the same yet two-way transformer and manifest as something...

 

Lastly, all exercises and powers of mind at best can help one reach the threshold of the transformer but from there only no-thing can pass or enter after the surrender of everything that was something or a someone in particular.

 

Om

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if i could only read one book and bury my head in it, it would be the I Ching.

luckily i am not confined to a single book or 2 or even confined to books at all

but books and others thoughts are something i definitely appreciate.

 

the void and the great beginning are one, since when we are in the void, in the one,

there is no room for speech. if we speak of the one then the one becomes the object

and we become as the subject, and oneness would no longer exist in its higher unity.

understanding that we are in the one without speaking of it is approach to

non being thru intuitive knowledge as i have mentioned already.

 

remember lao tzu says "the student of knowledge learns day by day but the student of Tao loses day by day"

 

chaung tzu says "when one is extremely tranquil then the Heavenly Light is given forth.

he who emits this heavenly light sees his real self. he who cultivates his real self achieves the absolute"

 

imo to the taoist, the attainment of absolute reality is to be within the realm of the infinite(non being)

when you reach this realm you have reached the ground of

the great sympathy. it can be reached thru quiescence or thru intuitive knowledge.

this is spoken of in many taoist writings.

quiescence is a gradual way , intuitive is sudden.

 

but the goal is the same in either method. enter into the non-being. non-being manifests itself either as the Heavenly Light or the uncarved block. these are 2 aspects of the same thing. in this realm there is the interfusion and identification of the multiplicity as this takes place one manifests to the great sympathy.

identification and interfussion in this realm of non-being are the functions of the great sympathy. it is the Tao, the higher unity of ALL things.

Hi Zero! Good day to you!

 

If i may... How does a person go about emitting the heavenly light?

 

If all is fundamentally united, what's left to separate? If nothing is separated, Unity, or attempting to unify things that are by nature already united, becomes redundant, i think.

 

Void by nature... even subject/object is manifested within the 'eternally pure' void, yes? So where does the 'no room for speech' arise from? Speaking or not, one is still held in the empty Void. In effect, the facsimile is the real. Speaking of the either does not make the Void less void. Thats what i am getting anyway.

 

I could have misunderstood as i have no familiarity at all with the TTC.

Be great if you could help me out here.

 

Thanks! :)

Edited by CowTao

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