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8 trigrams

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before starting this thread i did a search 8 trigrams. it comes up on some i ching, bagua, baguazhang, taoist cosmology, feng shui threads ...but not a thread specifically looking at the 8 trigrams themselves. perhaps this is embracing the mundane but the trigrams are used in such versatile and complete ways... and are very fundamental in taoist thought, so, i wanted to look closer at the trigrams. any and all thoughts about trigrams are welcome. corespondences,qualities,energy forms, attributes,phenomena, anything pertaining to the trigrams are appreciated. we dont have to cover what has already been hashed out in the other threads. and i will be looking closer to those as well. i am just in awe of the sage genius(s) that came up with this

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Third ring gives you eight. Sixth ring has 64. This is a very good symbol for Taoism, it is a yin yang symbol which preceded the current tai chi / yin yang symbol, In my opinion it is a better yin yang symbol for Bagua, and sometimes it is better to study symbols than words. This symbol is better than a thousand words, take your time, take days, years, a lifetime to study it, it has much to tell ... hidden.

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Edited by Starjumper7

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Here's one thing that's in it, it can represent a sequence of self defense moves (or better yet, the flavor or sequence of one move) or energies in a movement.

 

Or social situations,

 

Or the weather ...

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Third ring gives you eight. Sixth ring has 64. This is a very good symbol for Taoism, it is a yin yang symbol which preceded the current tai chi / yin yang symbol, In my opinion it is a better yin yang symbol for Bagua, and sometimes it is better to study symbols than words. This symbol is better than a thousand words, take your time, take days, years, a lifetime to study it, it has much to tell ... hidden.

providing a symbol to illustrate a concept about a set of symbols : )

an old ying yang symbol? is this also the template for the feng shui compass? i have not yet looked into feng shui but i do understand it has pa kua bagua principle. ( in taoist ideas i am very pre-school and trying to get into kindergarden)

i realize some folks look at using symbols to be a type of mysticism. even if all cultures have traditions of using symbols, mis-using symbols, creating symbols to try and express what is beyond words capabilities to do so. symbols represent something . there is an idea(representational theory of perception)that we do not & can not percieve the external world as it really is. for me symbols are a device to help peel back the layers of the representation. allowing for perception in an interplay of the concious and sub-concious. im in opinion that psychological properties supervene onto physical properties. symbols are a bridge. i do believe in the collective unconcious. for me trigrams are perfect symbols being a device to penetrate all levels of existence.

my first experience with trigrams is that they are connected with baguazhang(novice) but my first thinking about the trigrams was using the I ching as oracle.( novice)how 2 trigrams form a coresponding hexagram. the trigrams having associations with people, geographic direction,seasons, the weather,heaven, earth and so on..trigrams also represent a transformation.and i do believe trigrams and hexagrams if considered closely,sincerely, thoughtfully do provide uncanny(the word so often used and properly so)responses when the I ching is consulted as oracle. i have come to believe that trigrams are so much more than to be used just for that purpose. im in opinion of the symbol you offered here illustrates how yin&yand & the trigrams represent basic elements that transform into everything else.

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as a beginner it seemed straight forward about 2 trigrams forming a hexagram. seems simple enough. but not quite. really there are 4 trigrams composing the hexagram. lines 1,2,3 the upper trigram. lines 4,5,6 being the lower trigram. also contained in the hexagram are nuclear trigrams. it took me much contemplation about this to begin to understand. in wihelms translation of the I ching on pg. 358 he talks about nuclear trigrams.

so he does explain how lines 2,3,4 and lines 3,4,5 are the nuclear trigrams and that there is a stage by stage and overlapping of these trigrams and their influences on the hexagram. right away i could see that the top and bottom lines were included in 1 trigram each. where as lines 3&4 were contained in 3 different trigrams.lines 2&5 are contained in 2 trigrams each. ok ,well this leads me to many questions. i can see internal workings and dependance and influences. if i am consulting the I ching and receive a hexagram without changing lines or just 1 changing line i do not have so much trouble understanding.(at least i think so)

however when there are multiple changing lines , especially if they are lines 2,3,4,5 it becomes more challenging. leading to deeper contemplation about the hexagram, or, am i trying to look to deep? alot of complexity and intricaty going on within the hexagram in some cases. wilhelm does provide a clear idea about the aspects of each line by position. with experience i feel i understand better the importance of the nuclear trigrams. that is why every time i have consulted the I ching as oracle i have kept the record of the lines. so i can look back at earlier question's responses and maybe find something i had not considered at first .so with experience i have a better understanding in viewing the external and internal workings involved. 8 trigrams yield so much( maybe complete?) useful information when combined into a hexagram.

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http://www.facebook....100000182465766

 

curious that the only other person i have discussed about this makes the same exact prediction

is it a meaningful coincidence?

 

Hi,

 

Can't link to that Facebook page for some reason.

 

I think the trigrams are a great topic for a thread - and I think the way in which the hexagrams are constructed is important - of course - but first I think its important to understand the precise significance of each of the trigrams and how they relate to each other e.g. in the earlier heaven and later arrangements.

 

Also how the image of each trigrams arises from the way in which the yin and yang lines are built up e.g. why Ken is a mountain and so on - what is being described and what it means.

 

A.

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it took me much contemplation about this to begin to understand. in wihelms translation of the I ching on pg. 358 he talks about nuclear trigrams.

 

If people wish to study the I-Ching then I recommend reading only one that is translated by a high level enlightened Taoist master and avoid everything written by Western Scholars! Of course people who don't understand mastery won't understand why that is important. Does Wilhelm understand mastery? I haven't read his stuff and never will. I'm not prejudiced ... too much =), it's just that I prefer to associate with, talk to, and listen to masters and NOT Western scholars or philosophers.

 

There is only one I-Ching that qualifies that I know of and it is the Alfred Huang version. He's a high level Taoist master, a high level tai chi master, and he has high level enlightnmet. It is from a true master and the book itself is masterful in every way. It makes ME feel reverent as I approach it, and that is weird and a half, but good =)

 

Even the book cover is beautiful, indicating the mastery starts right on the front cover.

 

Alfred Huang I ching

Edited by Starjumper7

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Hi,

 

Can't link to that Facebook page for some reason.

 

I think the trigrams are a great topic for a thread - and I think the way in which the hexagrams are constructed is important - of course - but first I think its important to understand the precise significance of each of the trigrams and how they relate to each other e.g. in the earlier heaven and later arrangements.

 

Also how the image of each trigrams arises from the way in which the yin and yang lines are built up e.g. why Ken is a mountain and so on - what is being described and what it means.

 

A.

i could not agree more about looking at the basics and fundamentals of each trigram. that is my intent with this thread. i just wanted to illustrate how deep they can go when combined with each of the other trigrams. the link just worked for me.

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51JzGg%2BUlAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

 

I tried to find the picture of Alfred Huang that is in the book because he is beautiful too but couldn't find it.

 

A beautiful young personis an act of nature

 

A beautiful older personis a work of art.

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If people wish to study the I-Ching then I recommend reading only one that is translated by a high level Taoist master and avoid everything written by Western Scholars! Of course people who don't understand mastery won't understand why that is important. Does Wilhelm understand mastery? I haven't read his stuff and never will. I'm not prjudiced, it's just that I prefer to associate with, talk to, and listen to masters and NOT Western scholars or philosophers.

 

There is only one that I-Ching qualifies that I know of and it is the Alfred Huang version. He's a high level Taoist master, a high level tai chi master, and he hashig level enlightenmet. It is from a true master and the book itself is masterful in every way. It makes ME feel reverent as I approach it, and that is weird and a half, but good =)

 

Even the book cover is beautiful, indicating the mastery starts right on the front cover.

 

Alfred Huang I ching

in a way i was complaining about wilhelms explanation of the nuclear trigrams. in that i had to discover on my own how nuclear trigrams interact and influence. not saying i really have it figured out to a high level.

as always your input is appreciated , i will look for that book. i am also certain there are other tao bums who can shed a great light upon this subject.

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I found the picture of Alfred Huang. If you go to the Amazom book page, click "look inside this book" then click "back flap" they made it so that it can't be copied.

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yea Alfred Huangs version is the best I've come across.

 

Here is a set of videos by Terrence Mckenna that shows some interesting correspondences when a fractal graph of the I-Ching corresponds to patterns of habit & novelty throughout history.

 

For instance the timelines of the rise and fall of civilizations and the life of certain philosophers and geniuses will show up on this graph.

 

Interestingly enough the ending date for this graph is the same as the mayan calender in December next year.

:ninja:

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yea Alfred Huangs version is the best I've come across.

 

Here is a set of videos by Terrence Mckenna that shows some interesting correspondences when a fractal graph of the I-Ching corresponds to patterns of habit & novelty throughout history.

 

For instance the timelines of the rise and fall of civilizations and the life of certain philosophers and geniuses will show up on this graph.

 

Interestingly enough the ending date for this graph is the same as the mayan calender in December next year.

:ninja:

thankyou so much. i had heard about mckenna graphing the I ching and the winter solstice 2012 . i should be studying that work. it may be additional basis for a new arrangement of trigrams.

mckenna a great mind and unique way of looking at things.

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introduction to the 8 trigrams

 

looking back through ancient times, myths,and legends it is hard to determine the exact origin of the

trigrams. it is generally accepted that between 2300 bce and 3000 bce the 8 trigams were developed and organized to help explain and predict cyclic changes, the flow of energy of the planet, the inner elements

of humans, well to explain or predict basically everything. credit is often given to legendary emperors, namely fu hsi, yao, or shun.

 

the trigrams exist of 3 lines each. the lines are said to represent the relationship of heaven,humans,

and earth. there are broken lines (yin) and unbroken lines (yang). the combination of these yin and

yang lines produce 8 trigrams. 2 x 2 x 2 = 8.

 

there are fascinating accounts of the origins of the trigrams. i will not cover these here. of course if anyone wants to adress this subject they are invited to do so.

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as stated previous. a trigram is made up of 3 lines.

two types of lines

firm yielding

yang yin

unbroken broken

 

these lines can ascend or be backward moving. as the firm and yielding lines displace

one another change and transformation arise.

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so the Iching is an account of the sages journey like the tarot is an account of the heroes journey, correct? These two journeys should be different perspectives on the same phenomonon.

 

This is my assumption, what do you all think?

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Zhongxian Wu has an excellent book on the Trigrams, called 'Seeking the Spirit of the book of Change'. It's not a translation but rather a walk through the various aspects of each trigram. Recommended alongside a cup of oolong tea!

One of the distinctions that's worthwhile understanding when learning from/about the Yi Jing is that there are two main schools of thought and practice- one approaches the Yi Jing in light of its mathematical, numerological and symbolic nature; the other approaches the Yi Jing in terms of the philosophical keys that can be gleaned from the actual texts. Most of the Western translations and focus have a lean towards the philosophical approach.

The scholar Bent Nielsen has recently published a great compendium of information looking at the numerological/symbolic approach.

 

Also, the Daoist Master Hua Ching Ni has written a fantastic book and translation of the Yi Jing, a real treasure trove.

a

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imo another good translation, which includes Liu I-ming's text-commentary:

 

i_ching.jpg

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Zhongxian Wu has an excellent book on the Trigrams, called 'Seeking the Spirit of the book of Change'. It's not a translation but rather a walk through the various aspects of each trigram. Recommended alongside a cup of oolong tea!

One of the distinctions that's worthwhile understanding when learning from/about the Yi Jing is that there are two main schools of thought and practice- one approaches the Yi Jing in light of its mathematical, numerological and symbolic nature; the other approaches the Yi Jing in terms of the philosophical keys that can be gleaned from the actual texts. Most of the Western translations and focus have a lean towards the philosophical approach.

The scholar Bent Nielsen has recently published a great compendium of information looking at the numerological/symbolic approach.

 

Also, the Daoist Master Hua Ching Ni has written a fantastic book and translation of the Yi Jing, a real treasure trove.

a

thankyou so much, Al. it is my understanding that also in the east that it is the philosphocial approach that is more widely used. i will look into the Bent Neilson book. with the symbols and numbers my main focus of research is about Shao Yung and plum blossom numerology.

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