Parents, Prejudice, and Hate.

[strawdog65]

Hello everyone.

 

I've been doing a lot of introspective thinking, and thinking of my life and why I am the way I am. One of the big things in my life was the way in which I was raised. My parents were of the very old school type. Mother, Italian. Father , Polish-russian. Both born in america during the 20's and raised during a time that was full of segregation and the mindset that people who are different from you ( white/american) are to be derided.

 

Being brought up with prejudice, and not having any other role models to see the wrongness of their actions, my parents were not model parents when they had me in 1965. The civil rights, the race riots, all of it was current events, and this made race even more of an issue. I was born into this time, I was raised

by two parents that were equally wrong. This parental influence I believe is one of the most damaging ones possible, and the effects are life long. Speaking from my personal experiences, my mother was bad, but my Father was a Bastard. He had a derogatory word or term for every type of person you can imagine, no matter

their color of skin, their beliefs, or just their station in life, he had an equally insulting and graphic word for all.

 

Being brought up with such influence has effects. For me there were basically two choices open. ( i'm sure there are many more but in my teens, I was only aware of two.)

 

1.

You can take what is said and believe it because it's what your parents believe and therefore why would it be wrong? Take it and incorporate those ideas and concepts of hate and prejudice into who you become as you mature. Of course taking it as truth as you mature leads to becoming what your parents were. If they were obstinate, unfeeling, uncaring of others in the world and only out to satisfy themselves, you could pretty much look forward to the same. The question about doing this is... at what point, age, life experience, do you either see the lies and prejudice for what it is (Hate), or do you blindly continue on that path because of the mentality that "if it was good enough for mom and pop it's more than good enough for me!". Even if that path leads to diminishing your own capacity for unconditional Love to ever become part of your life? It took me until I was 17 to finally say something, and to accept the consequences of saying I did not agree or believe as my Father did.

 

Or

2.

Take what is said and use it to see if what's being said has any truth behind it. Like a wake up called to yourself. Of course even doing that, it can not negate the baggage of my formative years being around such a terrible influence. I had to become not only aware of my thoughts, but actively look for ways to break free from the imposed structure of what I was told to believe all through my youth. For me this meant Listening to all people, watching their actions, and only lastly paying any attention to their differences from myself. And trying to see those differences as good because they were different, different is not bad, it is only different. I had to purposefully push myself to interactwith all kinds of people, so that I could see what they were about without the bullshit handed to me by my father. Because of my abhorrence for my own fathers beliefs the world was opening to me. I went and lived in California. While living there for 6 years I met some of the coolest most open people of my life, and I treasure those times.

I went and lived in Hawaii, I met some of the most spiritually diverse and open people of my life there. Hawaii is a place where there is a lot of cross cultural sharing of ideas and cooperation in daily living because of it.

Besides that, Maui is a very special place in my heart and will be forever. Then I moved back to california again. Years of experiences, years of living outside of the box I was raised within. The living, the traveling, all the changes within myself, and still the head of the past rises. Demons from the past are always with you it seems. You always take your problems with you no matter what. People talk about never "being able to go home again". Well the home that is within you is always there right below the surface, and the only way to change it is to do something.

 

Thinking back about my Father, I am uncomfortable. He was a large (because I was small) man, ever imposing, always seemingly on the verge of exploding those veins that stood out on his temples, and always seething with anger with that red face of his. I guess you can see why he was a scary guy. Even so, I would once in awhile work up the stupid courage of the 7 or 8 year old boy I was and ask him why he said those things about those people. And he would always glare at me and say pretty much the same thing.

"They deserve it, because thats what the hell they are, you dumbass."

His glare always seemed to make me sweat, even in winter. ( or maybe that was the thought of being hit later on.) I could never understand how he could say such bad things about people who he didn't even know personally.

I would as him how it was that people of whatever color or group could all be so bad. But this is what he insisted and to not think the same made me a stupid dumbass of a boy. You have to understand, that to disagree with his view was entirely personal to him, and it usually meant getting hit.

 

When my sister and I were young he would slap us or use the 3 ' wide leather belt that hung in the hall closet just

for its easy access in case it would be needed. (That belt hung there all my life until I threw it away after he died.)

When I was older he would just smack me in the head or punch me, of course always glaring and telling me

"there's more where that came from".

So there was no arguing with my Father, at least not as a young boy.

 

What finally freed me from this mentality, was when I was 17 I told my old man face to face

( I was now about a foot taller than him) that he was full of shit and so were his shitty beliefs.

And that if he ever hit me again one of us would not survive it.

 

That was the last time my Dad and I had a confrontation or argument for that matter.

A year and a half later, he was dead.

 

My Father died from the sudden unrestrained onset of ALS also known as Lou Gehrigs disease.

It is a neuro-degenerative disease, that destroys your ability to move and use your body.

It usually starts at the lower spine and works it's way up to the brain stem.

You end up in a wheelchair, unable to speak, or control your yourself. Usually there is massive weight

loss as well so weakness and utter frailty is common. It is progressive and usually fatal within 3 years.

The doctors told us that we had to try to understand what he was trying to tell us, because even though

he could not properly form words with his mouth, he was speaking, and his intellect was still complete

inside of his ravaged body. It was hell watching him deteriorate month by month, and I felt for my Mom,

because when we could no longer understand what his noises and grunts meant, he would try and

sometimes succeed in biting us. It was like trying to take care of a vicious animal. I believe that by the

end my father had probably lost his mind, and there was nothing left, except a wish for death.

It was fast, humiliating, and a merciless way to die.

 

Looking back now, I can say I wish I could remember my Father in a positive way,

and not that image of an angry emaciated man doing his best to lash out at everyone

and everything from his wheelchair.

Even Monsters deserve a better death than that.

 

I'm sorry for running on and getting in to all of this....

I am tempted to just delete it all... and put that skeleton back in the closet.

Afterall he will always be there, till the end of my days.

Its been 27 years for me since he left this world, that eminently hateful man, my Father.

His influence, his example has made me the obstinate bastard that I sometimes am.

It's only when I think back to his influence that I can clearly see his face.

Most times I just see the animal in the wheelchair.

 

I can and do blame him for what He was.

But I can also thank him for what I am not.

27 years after his death, and I think I can finally forgive him.

Thats a good thing, because as I get older, the face I see in the mirror

looks more familiar everyday. But thanks to him I am a very different man.

 

--------------------------------

This was very difficult for me to write.

Very emotional, but necessary.

It has given me a fresh view... of why I am.

Please , if you have something to share, please do so.

 

Steve

Edited December 15, 2010 by strawdog65

[Aaron]

Hello Steve,

 

I'm sorry you've gone through what you have. I've made posts like this, vented a bit, trying to clean out the wreckage of the past, hoping there was someone else who understood, who knew how horrible and confusing it all was. I know. I know and I'm sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I don't see your father in you, I see a compassionate and caring man who's trying very hard to make do with what he's been given, and in my opinion is doing an excellent job.

 

Aaron

[KoolAid900]

Wow, that was pretty awesome. Spoken from the mouth of one with direct experience of extremely severe child abuse (not mine), you have a clear example of anger and negativity and understand like few others how detrimental it is. That is your gift in this situation. You are strong not to follow in his path... that is such a good thing, it is not just avoiding negativity. Very cool.

[suninmyeyes]

Hello Mr. Steve,

It is good to share things like this sometimes ,getting it out of the closet -as you say.

It seems as if your father was typical old skool Mediterrenean man.I am Medtierranean myself and am familiar with this type of attidues as they are quite common.

It is a type of temperament that is so deeply rooted in our still very manly/patriachal culture.

It is good if you can forgive him,but best if you can forgive yourself and love yourself where it hurts.And dont let anything dominate your well being.This is coming from personal expirience.

[strawdog65]

Thank you all for your comments.

 

I just wanted to post something that will hopefully

show others that regardless of your situation

and how you were raised or what the influences are

in your life, You can decide to not be as you are told to be.

 

Sometimes the best influence is the one that wakes you up.

 

 

Peace to everyone!

[KoolAid900]

Wow, I really appreciate your honesty Steve. Very cool! Very, very good thing

[Birch]

I love synchronicity.

 

"The spiritual life" is IMO often (initially?) fueled by things like this.

 

I hate my mother (and my father to a lesser extent). And I've chosen to use that hate to do things differently. I guess I hate them - while all the while knowing that the "them" I hate are not the "true" them. Just as the shell I became under their rule is not the "true" me.

 

The "true" me is the one they didn't love or take care of because the "true" me did not fit into the mold of what they considered "their child" to be and even what a child "should" be. They don't "get it" - even today and have admitted that they don't "get" me either. They've never actually tried to "get" me. I guess that must be very weird, to have a kid and just not understand anything about them...

 

I'd like to apologise to them because they had kids, imagining these would belong to them and they could do what they wanted with them. Make them become mini-thems, get them to fulfill dreams that they had no intention of putting the work in to achieve, maybe even give them things that they never had from their own parents, love?

 

Big mistake I guess life (Tao?) saw to it that things happened otherwise. But of course, before I hated them, I loved them, but they didn't know it and I haven't told them that yet. I don't think it's useful to tell really old people you hate them. I guess they must have worked it out by now.

 

I don't see why one should apologise for telling others how one really feels about one's parents. They're not sacred cows, they're just people. I'm a people too

 

There have been a few accounts/allusions to people's parents on here but I don't see it talked about much. Like we can talk about blowing chi up our asses but not about mom and dad...

 

Is this because it makes one (me?) seem childish to admit that I'm not necessarily "over" with that part of my life? Will I be treated like an idiot (or talked down to in future pointed debates) if I don't take the "high" "spiritual" road of total forgiveness and "unconditional love"? It was pointed out to me the other day that emotions are not "conditional" - they just are. I know this to be the case.

 

Thanks for putting this subject online.

[Gerard]

Hi Steve,

 

In the end everyone loses. There is no winner in our case, we are all in this world to work in our own karmic actions which trascend space, time and matter. Your dad has already started his journey again elsewhere and might come across you again in the future, who knows. That's how karma works. You are still here and need healing to do in order to repair the damage done to your internal organs. I wish you the best recovery and pray for your dad's spirit and his suffering.

 

All the best in your recovery process and future karmic development.

 

Zhu ni hao yun as the Chinese say (good luck)!

 

 

Love and peace.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Gerard

[strawdog65]

 

 

There have been a few accounts/allusions to people's parents on here but I don't see it talked about much. Like we can talk about blowing chi up our asses but not about mom and dad...

 

Is this because it makes one (me?) seem childish to admit that I'm not necessarily "over" with that part of my life? Will I be treated like an idiot (or talked down to in future pointed debates) if I don't take the "high" "spiritual" road of total forgiveness and "unconditional love"? It was pointed out to me the other day that emotions are not "conditional" - they just are. I know this to be the case.

 

Thanks for putting this subject online.

 

 

Kate.

 

Thank you for being so open with a shared experience.

I think that for our growth in Tao it is necessary to

understand the underpinnings of our deepest behavior.

 

This is an open subject, and there is no one that should judge you or

I for trying to work through it with honesty.

I too felt like I was taking a risk in compromising how I would be

seen by others, but the emotions when I began to think about my

own behavior and why... were too much not to acknowledge them.

 

Thank you for the honesty and view of your own experience.

 

 

Peace.

[Alfred E]

Hello everyone.

 

I've been doing a lot of introspective thinking, and thinking of my life and why I am the way I am. One of the big things in my life was the way in which I was raised. My parents were of the very old school type. Mother, Italian. Father , Polish-russian. Both born in america during the 20's and raised during a time that was full of segregation and the mindset that people who are different from you ( white/american) are to be derided.

 

--------------------------------

This was very difficult for me to write.

Very emotional, but necessary.

It has given me a fresh view... of why I am.

Please , if you have something to share, please do so.

 

Steve

 

S.D.,

To me, our purpose, in this life, is to be better than our ancestors - not to be controlled by them even in their death . . .

As such we remain in tune with the workings of the Universal Tao through Evolving - by becoming better as in improving our family line for future generations.

When I was very young I thought about this and one day came up with the solution with my personal philosophy: "The Earth is my mother, the Sun is my father, and here I am in between as I Evolve."

I think it will fit you as well.

[strawdog65]

S.D.,

To me, our purpose, in this life, is to be better than our ancestors - not to be controlled by them even in their death . . .

As such we remain in tune with the workings of the Universal Tao through Evolving - by becoming better as in improving our family line for future generations.

When I was very young I thought about this and one day came up with the solution with my personal philosophy: "The Earth is my mother, the Sun is my father, and here I am in between as I Evolve."

I think it will fit you as well.

 

 

AE Hi!

 

Yes, I do think that fits me.

 

Beautifully moving thought and life philosophy.

 

I will endeavor to be open to what my parents were not.

 

Peace!

[Mark Foote]

 

I don't think it's useful to tell really old people you hate them. I guess they must have worked it out by now.

 

I don't see why one should apologise for telling others how one really feels about one's parents. They're not sacred cows, they're just people. I'm a people too

 

It was pointed out to me the other day that emotions are not "conditional" - they just are. I know this to be the case.

 

 

I can mostly see my parents' weaknesses I think, but there are parts of my parents' weaknesses that I have trouble getting in focus- I guess because those parts are still in me. What a strange mixture we all are.

 

What an excellent piece of writing, Strawdog65; deeply disturbing, to think of your father in that condition, presumably still full of enough rage to bite the hand that fed him.

 

The words of Towns Van Zand come to mind:

 

mama, when you leave

don't leave nothin' at all

I can't use nothin'

I don't need nothin'.

 

... as brothers are troubles are

locked in each other's arms

and you better pray

that they never find you.

 

your back ain't strong enough

to bear a burden, double-fold

it'd cut you down

down into nothin'.

 

to be born is to go blind

bow down a thousand times

to echoes of

pure temptation

 

sorrow and solitude

these are the precious things

and the only words

worth rememb'ring.

 

from the song, "nothin'".

[strawdog65]

Hi steve et al. Thanks for sharing your personal experiences.

 

Experiencing pain seems to be requirement of childhood. Processing childhood pains appropriately, while they were happening (or shortly thereafter), seems to have been a rare experience.

 

In my current practices, I realize that opening my heart to my parents does not require their participation one iota. As I "unpack the suitcase of painful memories," I realize that I am in sole control of how heavy I allow this suitcase to be as I wheel it behind me through life. When I allow love to bloom in my heart, a newfound freedom arises: simply allowing the energy between me and the parents to flow. Even when I witness that they are able to take in 1/100th of what I send, that is meaningful to me.

 

I thank the universe to have been so fortunate to have benefitted from my cultivation practices, as they have allowed me to transform my relationship with my parents.

 

Blessings to you all, that you may find peace and elimination of suffering in your relationships with your parents. _/\_

 

 

Thank you Rainbow for participating in this thread.

 

I see a lot of people have read what has been said, but few have

felt comfortable to say anything. I think that maybe this is a very sore

spot for most of us. And as such, taking one of our skeletons by the hand

and bringing them into the light and facing them in the stark light of

day is too much to bear for most of us.

 

I believe that the influence and damage done to us as children, whether

knowingly or not, is perhaps the largest thing standing in the way of

our own personal growth.

 

Who can we Love if we can't Love ourselves?

 

Nothing can undue the things that make up our past.

But we can face what has happened and decide where we go from here.

We choose to carry these burdens within us, and when the time comes

we can also choose to put them down, and grow beyond what we were.

 

 

Thank you all for participating in this thread!

 

Peace.

[steve]

Wow Steve - that was very courageous of you to share that.

I have been wrestling with my own demons in recent years related to my childhood and my parenting choices.

Two observations -

1. I have hope for the future. I am much more tolerant and accepting than my father was. My children are similarly better than me.

2. Despite your terrible childhood experiences, somehow you have managed to find a more positive direction and outlook. In part this is a result of your insight and hard work. At the same time, it somehow arose from the ground substance of your childhood and parental relationships. So even though your experience was very negative - it has had a very positive outcome.

 

Best wishes for the holiday season and I hope you continue to find the strength to heal your wounds and move forward.

[strawdog65]

Wow Steve - that was very courageous of you to share that.

I have been wrestling with my own demons in recent years related to my childhood and my parenting choices.

Two observations -

1. I have hope for the future. I am much more tolerant and accepting than my father was. My children are similarly better than me.

2. Despite your terrible childhood experiences, somehow you have managed to find a more positive direction and outlook. In part this is a result of your insight and hard work. At the same time, it somehow arose from the ground substance of your childhood and parental relationships. So even though your experience was very negative - it has had a very positive outcome.

 

Best wishes for the holiday season and I hope you continue to find the strength to heal your wounds and move forward.

 

 

Hi Steve.

 

Thanks for the supportive comments.

I know I am far from alone in having such skeletons.

I think that when the time is right this stuff will

come out whether we want it to or not. Usually if

you try to contain it, it can destroy all your

relationships, and your life in general.

 

I feel lighter after facing it and letting go.

 

Thanks again to everyone for participating.

 

Peace!

[goldisheavy]

People like to harp about how we should respect our parents, and I like to remind them that while parents do good things for us as kids, they are also an important source of our delusions, and if not the source, then an aggravating factor.

 

Parents are really a mixed bag. Even the best of parents are a mixed bag. They're not some angels that we need to worship. I feel only the same compassion toward my own parents that I feel toward anyone else. I don't have a special preference for my parents. This is one of the reasons I find Confucianism and similar ideologies to be offensive and demeaning.

[Aaron]

No one is perfect. I think the important thing to recognize is that we are all fallible. I don't think one has to respect or even love their parents, especially if they've caused you deep sorrow or harm, but I do think it's beneficial to forgive. A lot of what stays with us over the years are the pieces of our past that remind us of what we were and never wanted to be. We didn't want to feel lonely or sad. We didn't want to worry about footsteps at night. When those feelings linger, they continue to haunt us. The only real way to be rid of them is to look at them and accept them for what they are and let them go.

 

There's no reason that the nine year old child from 1974 needs to still feel that pain in 2010. If we can forgive, then a lot of that pain is let go, it has no place to hide, the anger, shame, and humiliation disappears, the dross that covers our souls in darkness is wiped clean and we can be free.

 

I think once you admit that you feel this way and move on from there, accept that those incidents from the past are controlling your life and causing your life to get out of control, then you can start to work towards reconciling your past.

 

With that, I'll leave you with the chorus from one of my favorite songs by Jane Siberry,

 

It can't rain all the time,

The sky wont fall forever,

And though the night seems long,

your tears wont fall,

your tears wont fall,

your tears wont fall... forever.

 

 

Aaron

[Birch]

"Experiencing pain seems to be requirement of childhood."

 

Ah, I think this is a fallacy. It only seems that way because it is so widespread.

 

I think true forgiveness is wonderful. I think fake forgiveness as an attempt to live up to some moralistic ideal as a "spiritual" person is a waste of time and energy.

 

Why should the abused and mis-treated children have to work twice as hard to enjoy their lives, their work and their relationships?

 

I'll bet if you take a poll of the bums you'll find a bunch of us with "skeletons" and stories to tell about how we were treated. I've read a few here that are just insane.

 

Oh, and it also doesn't help that the long term effects of such mis-treatment play into the current social environment so well. Want to change the world? Change families first...

[Ten Thousand Methods]

I would also like to thank you for posting this. You and your family are in my heart. I wish you the best in your cultivation and in your life's journey.

 

It took a lot of courage for you to share this. Thank you.

 

Best wishes strawdog65.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Ten Thousand Methods