Taoism Vs Buddhism

[voidisyinyang]

Its not the feminism I had a problem with.

 

Its the constant putting down of Indian culture by people who always get basic facts wrong when you check their sources.

 

Indian culture spread to Afghanistan, China, southeast Asia and even Japan taking the 1st major religion of India to these areas, Buddhism.

 

As the center of this cultural empire we should get the same respect as the Roman Empire.

 

At the Feet of the Goddess: The Divine Feminine in Local Hindu Religion

By Lynn Foulston

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=42K_YyLJPugC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=Lynn+foulston+brahmanization+of+goddesses&source=bl&ots=rT3mmFjbGh&sig=1MLGKbF7KV5x_6AQC6v5W979Pp8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HGqMUbynGMbnqQHcwoCwCA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Lynn%20foulston%20brahmanization%20of%20goddesses&f=false

 

Googlebooks on the Brahmanization or Sanskritization of local goddesses

[RongzomFan]

At the Feet of the Goddess: The Divine Feminine in Local Hindu Religion

By Lynn Foulston

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=42K_YyLJPugC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=Lynn+foulston+brahmanization+of+goddesses&source=bl&ots=rT3mmFjbGh&sig=1MLGKbF7KV5x_6AQC6v5W979Pp8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HGqMUbynGMbnqQHcwoCwCA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Lynn%20foulston%20brahmanization%20of%20goddesses&f=false

 

Googlebooks on the Brahmanization or Sanskritization of local goddesses

 

I know all about Brahmanization or Sanskritization. I'm not buying that its associated with patriarchy. Even if it was, you are making it seem Brahmin priests = Hinduism

[RongzomFan]

If Brahmins were patriarchal, wouldn't they be stamping out female deities instead of making temples to them?

 

These western scholars and their cognitive dissonances.....

[voidisyinyang]

If Brahmins were patriarchal, wouldn't they be stamping out female deities instead of making temples to them?

 

These western scholars and their cognitive dissonances.....

 

The Guru in South Asia: New Interdisciplinary Perspectives

edited by Jacob Copeman, Aya Ikegame

 

http://www.academia.edu/1786329/Guru_proofs_1

 

the whole book is there.

 

for free - nothing to buy. haha.

 

published as

 

The Guru in South Asia: New Interdisciplinary Perspectives

edited by Jacob Copeman, Aya Ikegame

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=r2O3W7mkAwAC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=guru+multifarious&source=bl&ots=EE7PjyoDTo&sig=DUWpwFr8oh1QJwEr_cTy-y05M2E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bXGMUZSSJcS6rgG_qoGoBQ&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=guru%20multifarious&f=false 2012 googlebooks

[voidisyinyang]

If Brahmins were patriarchal, wouldn't they be stamping out female deities instead of making temples to them?

 

These western scholars and their cognitive dissonances.....

 

Yeah if you read her research - basically the Brahmanization means that the local Goddess is changed to look less Melanesian and then also made to be less fierce. But if the Goddess is "Pan-Indian" the she is also more pure but actually less powerful than the local Goddess that has been Brahmanized yet retains a local ritual connection like animal sacrifice or inclusion of all castes or a local shamaness doing channelling, etc.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Patch work is when something does not line up with reality so add women to temples. Add mother Mary, its not that the original mistake was fixed, just patched, Hebrew changed the female essence to the role of a man that doesn't line up with reality because there is not just man and not just women. Its all mud to me and I don't like being stuck..I like to be free and have all systems complement each other.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[三江源]

If Brahmins were patriarchal, wouldn't they be stamping out female deities instead of making temples to them?

 

These western scholars and their cognitive dissonances.....

This is demonstrating a very naieve idea of what Patriarchal means.

 

I find your designation of western scholars as the ones who have cognitive dissonance, as if it were not a common human trait, to be prejudiced and closed minded.

[Apech]

This is demonstrating a very naieve idea of what Patriarchal means.

 

I find your designation of western scholars as the ones who have cognitive dissonance, as if it were not a common human trait, to be prejudiced and closed minded.

 

A word in support of alwayson ... there is a particular cognitive problem with western scholars of eastern religion in that no matter how they try ... unless they are practitioners they turn the subject into a form of Christianity ... for instance the so called secular Buddhists of Oxford University, John Peacock et al.

[RongzomFan]

This is demonstrating a very naieve idea of what Patriarchal means.

 

Its possible. So what does it mean?

 

I find your designation of western scholars as the ones who have cognitive dissonance, as if it were not a common human trait, to be prejudiced and closed minded.

 

If we took the same amateur Freudian approach to Christianity that western scholars take to Hinduism......

 

Actually as Dr. Antonio deNicholas pointed out we don't need to! The Bible is more explicitly Freudian!

 

"For one thing Freud would not be needed. The Bible is very explicit. The creation myth (history) says very clearly that the Creator created the world by ejecting his semen (ruh= pron.ruah) and mingling it with the waters. In other words, the creator created through masturbation. And if you stretch the story all the way to Jesus and follow the patrilineal lines given to him turns out that Yahweh is his father."

[三江源]

Thanks APech, absolutely right. my bad. Thanks alwayson for being so cool and terrific and putting up with us westerners.

Edited May 11, 2013 by cat

[RongzomFan]

Thanks APech, absolutely right. my bad. Thanks alwayson for being so cool and terrific and putting up with us westerners

 

I thought we were talking about western scholarship.

 

Edited May 11, 2013 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Although I am a Buddhist, the same discredited "scholars" pop up in my books all the time. Its about factual accuracy. Nothing more, nothing less.

[三江源]

I thought we were talking about western scholarship.

Spot on, yes. Them and their cognitive dissonance.

 

No matter how hard they try they get it wrong, because of their cognitive dissonance.

[RongzomFan]

Spot on, yes. Them and their cognitive dissonance.

 

No matter how hard they try they get it wrong, because of their cognitive dissonance.

 

That's part of it, as Dr. Antonio deNicholas pointed out. But there is no basic understanding of Indian languages, no fact checking during peer review etc.

[suninmyeyes]

Its possible. So what does it mean?

 

 

If we took the same amateur Freudian approach to Christianity that western scholars take to Hinduism......

 

Actually as Dr. Antonio deNicholas pointed out we don't need to! The Bible is more explicitly Freudian!

 

"For one thing Freud would not be needed. The Bible is very explicit. The creation myth (history) says very clearly that the Creator created the world by ejecting his semen (ruh= pron.ruah) and mingling it with the waters. In other words, the creator created through masturbation. And if you stretch the story all the way to Jesus and follow the patrilineal lines given to him turns out that Yahweh is his father."

Here is a definition of patriachy :

http://www.du.ac.in/fileadmin/DU/Academics/course_material/hrge_06.pdf

 

Yes , there still seems to be a lot of misundrestunding and cognitive dissonance between scholars from all parts of the world , it is as cat says impossible to avoid becouse it is a common human trait . Hopefully we are improving slowly but safley .

[RongzomFan]

Here is a definition of patriachy :

http://www.du.ac.in/fileadmin/DU/Academics/course_material/hrge_06.pdf

 

Yes , there still seems to be a lot of misundrestunding and cognitive dissonance between scholars from all parts of the world , it is as cat says impossible to avoid becouse it is a common human trait . Hopefully we are improving slowly but safley .

 

The cognitive dissonance applies to specific scholars such as Doniger, Courtright, Kripal, Caldwell etc.

 

They ignored academic standards common to any other area of academia. And now everyone knows about it.

[suninmyeyes]

Thanks alwayson , do not have such in depth knowledge on subject to comment . However I am aware of this being present .

 

Would like to clarify what I said previously is that even the general standards of academia allows elements of cognitive dissonance still due to human nature factor regrdless of standards .

[RongzomFan]

Back to patriarchy....

 

Who do you think controls Hindu temples? The finances etc.?

 

Its women...

Edited May 11, 2013 by alwayson

[suninmyeyes]

Well , you see the patriachy is gone so deep that a lot of women totally buy into it and obey and perpetuate .

So it is the womens responsability as well to sober up and understund what they want and what is possible and that greater freedom is actualy OK gulit free way to be .

Sometimes conditiong is so ridicilously deep ...

 

I have lived in India for a while and some family is still there after many long years , so I am very familiar with the system and culture , plus I have Indian friends and connections .

Patriachy is super alive and kicking over there and has been looong time .

However a lot of tresure has come out of India .

It is a land of contraversy and spirituality . It has so obviously in one way or another inspired most of todays non Abrahamic spiritual intersts , which is a real big role to play .

[RongzomFan]

Patriachy is super alive and kicking over there and has been looong time .

 

Yeah like what?

[suninmyeyes]

OK where do I start ? The whole system is so based on patriachal ideals and do not work without them . That is why a lot of Hindu scholars dislike feminist thought .

 

Inherentance system .

Sati , which involves women jumping into her husbands funeral fire to prove her devotion -- which is still practised especially in rural India .

The fact women are not allowed to do some puja prayers , but husbands should do it only .

The fact that male child will predominatley be given rights for education over a a female child if a family is poor .

Than there is this whole image of superior womanhood portrayed by Sita and still so admired . Sita is gentle , devotional and bears all -- this is where her strenght comes from . She is cool and I get it but you wont get a Durga or Kali as a superior role model for womanhood .

Woman is seen solely as a mother or at times as a saint . This are two most decent roles , otherwise she is mostly outcsated out of society . Lover is not allowed out loud .

So many widows are left on the street , LOADS , it is terrible I have wittnesed this . Not to mention single mothers - gosh those are black sheep .

Infantcide -- selective gender birth . The fact that a family should have a son , this is pride and joy .

 

 

There is the book witten by Swami Sivananda (who wrote some okish stuff too btw ) called Advice to women or something similar . In it it is written that woman should not complain and should bear with husbands whims and be his servant . Yes the wife is the servant of husbnad .

 

I could give you loads more examples as well as private examples and stories from women I associated with , but would be too long for now .

 

Look where I grew up is still quite patriachal , comparing to Western Europe for example . This is how it is and I am suprised you do not see it in India as yous seem as inteligent person .

Edited May 11, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[RongzomFan]

OK where do I start ? The whole system is so based on patriachal ideals and do not work without them . That is why a lot of Hindu scholars dislike feminist thought .

 

Inherentance system .

 

Whats wrong with the inheritance system?? My mom and my aunts inherited my grandfather's property equally with my uncles. This in Indian law. There was no will.

 

Sati , which involves women jumping into her husbands funeral fire to prove her devotion -- which is still practised especially in rural India .

 

I don't know about that.

 

The fact women are not allowed to do some puja prayers , but husbands should do it only .

 

This is probably the most ridiculous statement. Women are the ones in temple doing all the Sanskrit mantras and rituals. Its in fact a cliché that even the Dalai Lama mentions.

 

The fact that male child will predominatley be given rights for education over a a female child if a family is poor .

 

My father is from a poor village family. These are just ridiculous statements.

 

Than there is this whole image of superior womanhood portrayed by Sita and still so admired . Sita is gentle , devotional and bears all -- this is where her strenght comes from . She is cool and I get it but you wont get a Durga or Kali as a superior role model for womanhood .

Woman is seen solely as a mother or at times as a saint . This are two most decent roles , otherwise she is mostly outcsated out of society .

So many widows are left on the street , LOADS , it is terrible I have wittnesed this . Not to mention single mothers - gosh those are black sheep .

Infantcide -- selective gender birth . The fact that a family should have a son , this is pride and joy .

 

I'm not going to address this any further. All of this is frankly utter bullshit. I'm not surprised though.

[Maddie]

I was watching this interesting documentary about Greek mythology last night and what was interesting was that one of the scholars on the documentary was pointing out that one thing that was unique about Greek mythology at that point in time was how much emphasis was placed on violence and warfare and that this stood out along with the rise of the patriarchal figure of Zeus. I believe one of the points she was making was that in the past all the emphasis on paternity and violence and warfare was unheard of. She connected it to the rise of agriculture and that now that with the land based agricultural system defending that land and conquering other lands was now the new focus.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8U-06pD958

[SantaRosaGuy]

If women don't act like woman should and aren't the receptive to the male's active, then what happens?

 

It turns into a bad situation, is what happens.

 

I'd go further but it isn't politically correct in today's culture to talk about the Tao.

Edited May 11, 2013 by SantaRosaGuy

[RongzomFan]

There is the book witten by Swami Sivananda (who wrote some okish stuff too btw ) called Advice to women or something similar . In it it is written that woman should not complain and should bear with husbands whims and be his servant . Yes the wife is the servant of husbnad .

 

You said you knew Indians. You obviously don't. The mom is always the boss of the family.