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English language logic question

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I'm not sure; There might be a difference between English and German, but maybe not.

 

If one thing is 100, and another thing is three times greater, wouldn't this thing then be 400, and not 300? If it is 300, wouldn't it then be three times as great or two times greater?

 

Many Germans confuse this, but lately I've heard an MIT scientist (!) use it this way in a documentary. (Not that I couldn't believe scientists having problems with logic. :lol:) But I mean, seriously, in scientific circles, this could lead to grave errors in communication ... that is ... if one of the probably very few people is involved who uses it the right way. One of those mavericks. :lol:

 

It's funny, but some errors in the world don't cause problems only because everybody makes the same error. :rolleyes::lol: And then, when someone with a sense for logic comes along, he will be ostracised for allegedly making an error. :rolleyes:

Edited by Hardyg

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Hi Hardyg,

 

3 times 1 is 3. Therefore 3 times 100 would be 300. Yes, the words are tricky. Yes, 300 is 3 times greater than 100.

 

Peace & Love!

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Hi Hardyg,

 

3 times 1 is 3. Therefore 3 times 100 would be 300. Yes, the words are tricky. Yes, 300 is 3 times greater than 100.

 

Peace & Love!

But this is wordplay, not logic. "As great as" is a comparison. "Greater as" is an increase. 3 times 100 is 300, but a number 3 times higher as 100 is 400. One time refers to the amount in question, so if the amount is 100, one time that is 100, and one time greater than this is 100 greater than 100, thus 200.

So 300 is 2 times greater than 100, or 3 times as great as 100.

Edited by Hardyg

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I disagree, MH. The phrase "greater than" implies a differential, just as Hardyg is thinking. Four cookies is 100% greater than two cookies. Four cookies is not 200% greater than two cookies. The factor of 100% (two cookies) is a differential.

 

The phrase "as much as", on the other hand, is an absolute rather than a differential -- four cookies is 200% (twice) as much as two cookies.

 

See the difference? (and yes, it is tricky...)

 

I know you disagree. And I agree with your disagreement because of the words that are being used. The words are misleading.

 

300% of $100 equal $300. That is 3 times 100. Yes, 300 is greater than 100. It is 3 times greater. Change the words though and you have the 400.

 

Peace & Love!

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Well, without wanting to sound arrogant, I would say it is only tricky with 'folk logic'. When untainted logic is ingrained in the perception, the first time you hear someone use it the wrong way you'll immediately think: "Wait! What did he just say?!". It's more tricky for me to figure out what number people actually mean, if they don't explain it.

Oh yeah, here's another addition to the weird tendency of people to adaptively do things wrong all the time: I know that the MIT scientists mentioned before used it the wrong way, because he told the numbers he meant afterwards! So he not only committed a logical fallacy, but he then supported this fallacy by giving absolute numbers, so that people won't assume that he might have used language correctly. :lol:

That's what I meant earliert about being ostracised. It is somewhat worrying that society has a strong tendency to turn meaning upside down. White becomes black, good becomes bad, minus becomes plus. I don't know where this comes from, but it might be a good topic for a scientific paper. Because as I said, it happens intriguingly often that people are adaptive in fallacies, meaning they will do A when B would be correct, all the time, like a habit, and then one case occurs where A would be right, and they do B. :blink:

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Hehehe. Do we qualify to take beginning algebra now?

 

In my youth (yeah, that was a long time ago) I always had trouble with word problems in math.

 

Peace & Love!

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Marblehead, I understand the way you interpret it. (As I said, when meanings change on a broad scale, it's difficult to make people understand that majority doesn't overrule logic.)

 

You say: 300 is greater than 100.

HOW (by which factor) is it greater?

The way in which it is greater is 3 times.

(So it's a kind of greaterness attribute.)

 

:wacko:

 

Now I'll fire a shot from my BFG9000 of logic. B)

 

100 equals 100, right? ... RIGHT? :lol:

So if you have 100 before and 100 after, nothing changed, right?

So you can't say that from before to after the amount has become greater, right?

Then why do you think you can say that the number after is one time greater than before?! ;)

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Replying to both Seeker and Hardy here:

 

I agree that logic and math have nearly everything in common.

 

1 plus 1 equals 2. That is math and that is logic.

 

If we begin with one object and add one more identical object to it we now have two ones, or, two.

 

If we have one apple and add one orange to it we don't have two apples. We still have only one apple. But, we have two (different) fruits.

 

Just to tell on myself. I had to drop Beginning Algebra twice before I found an instructor who knew how to teach in a way I could understand. After finding this instructor I Aced all three levels.

 

Different people's brains work differently. Mine is wierd, I know!

 

Much like viewing a tree. Three people can look at the exact same tree but all three people will see and concentrate on three different aspects of the tree and each will explain their perception differently.

 

Peace & Love!

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