Phenomenology and Qigong

[al.]

Are there any qigong practitioners here who have looked deeply into phenomenology?

 

Although I haven't read the main works, it seems like it could provide a missing piece to Western people practicing qigong. This is pure speculation but it does seem that the culture that qigong grew from is inherently different from Western culture, and has quite a drastically different way of looking at things.

This seems to be very much related to Chinese culture retaining a more pictorial language than the West. Because of this, over the last few millennia Eastern and Western minds have, in general, developed slightly different ways of relating to the environment that surrounds them. This is of course a subtle difference but may be hugely valuable to be aware of as western practitioners.

 

The tradition of phenomenology points out in many ways, what just through our cultural upbringing, we have already missed when we begin our qigong practice. This is referring to a number of things- primarily our conditioned experience of the earth below us, the horizon in front of us, the horizon behind us, and the sky above us. How time interacts with this spacial field we happen to be at the centre of is where things really start to get interesting.

 

Linguistically, the future is ahead of us, and the past is behind us... but could these words be applied to our physicality as well? I'm reminded of hearing we hold the bulk of one kind of emotional memory along our calves and the backs of our legs.

 

"the beyond-the-horizon, by withholding its presence, holds open the perceived landscape, while the under-the-ground, by refusing its presence, supports the perceived landscape. The reciprocity and asymmetry between these two realms bear an uncanny resemblance to the reciprocity and contrast between the future and the past- the one withholding presence, the other refusing presence."

 

This quote comes from the book that stimulated this thoughts- The spell of the sensuous by David Abram. Another book which works upon similar lines and has the same kind of impact is Mediation by Thomas De Zengotita.

 

Both books suggest that a huge burden we as a culture have brought upon ourselves is our disconnection with the environment around us, the lost sense of being indigenous to a place.

All these thoughts seem to resonate with Taoism.

a

[Birch]

Excellent!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Thought-Asians-Westerners-Differently/dp/0743216466

[Guest artform]

Thanks al. for raising this topic/question, and thanks Kate for the link to the Geography of Thought!! :D

 

I have been interested and read in phenomenology for the past 40 years or more, and introduced our book club to it through The Spell of the Sensuous, one of my favourite books. Short answer from this one is Yes, as a continuing explorer rather than any expert.

 

There is a confluence among the Dao and qigong with phenomenology and with quantum physics as we circle the unspeakable, IMHO. Time and intentionality are big with all of this.

 

artform

Edited August 12, 2010 by artform

[voidisyinyang]

Are there any qigong practitioners here who have looked deeply into phenomenology?

 

Although I haven't read the main works, it seems like it could provide a missing piece to Western people practicing qigong. This is pure speculation but it does seem that the culture that qigong grew from is inherently different from Western culture, and has quite a drastically different way of looking at things.

This seems to be very much related to Chinese culture retaining a more pictorial language than the West. Because of this, over the last few millennia Eastern and Western minds have, in general, developed slightly different ways of relating to the environment that surrounds them. This is of course a subtle difference but may be hugely valuable to be aware of as western practitioners.

 

The tradition of phenomenology points out in many ways, what just through our cultural upbringing, we have already missed when we begin our qigong practice. This is referring to a number of things- primarily our conditioned experience of the earth below us, the horizon in front of us, the horizon behind us, and the sky above us. How time interacts with this spacial field we happen to be at the centre of is where things really start to get interesting.

 

Linguistically, the future is ahead of us, and the past is behind us... but could these words be applied to our physicality as well? I'm reminded of hearing we hold the bulk of one kind of emotional memory along our calves and the backs of our legs.

 

"the beyond-the-horizon, by withholding its presence, holds open the perceived landscape, while the under-the-ground, by refusing its presence, supports the perceived landscape. The reciprocity and asymmetry between these two realms bear an uncanny resemblance to the reciprocity and contrast between the future and the past- the one withholding presence, the other refusing presence."

 

This quote comes from the book that stimulated this thoughts- The spell of the sensuous by David Abram. Another book which works upon similar lines and has the same kind of impact is Mediation by Thomas De Zengotita.

 

Both books suggest that a huge burden we as a culture have brought upon ourselves is our disconnection with the environment around us, the lost sense of being indigenous to a place.

All these thoughts seem to resonate with Taoism.

a

 

Phenomenology was founded by Husserl -- the latest promoter of it is Dan Zahavi's book "Self Awareness and Alterity" http://www.amazon.com/Self-Awareness-Alterity-Phenomenological-Investigation-SPEP/dp/0810117010

 

Self-Awareness and Alterity: A Phenomenological Investigation

 

http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11598

 

David Abram's book is very cool but he doesn't really consider the connection to tonal musical languages -- the Dravidian languages, like Tamil (Ramana Maharshi's language).

 

The problem is that phenomenology is basically mind yoga -- focus on the source of self-awareness -- and then record and analyze what is perceived.

 

Qigong works on also body transformation -- and that visions and other types of perception can not easily be translated back into words.

 

I looked into Husserl but it's too limited in practice. He was trying to work within the domain of science which limited him to a more materialistic outlook.

Edited August 12, 2010 by drewhempel

[Birch]

"circle the unspeakable"

 

I thought this was a good joke

 

As long as we (mis)take our words about everything to be the case (and when I say words, what I really mean are ALL those things that we use to signify whatever is going on) then we may remain in very real trouble.

 

I have nothing against words, in fact they're great but I get concerned when words are allowed to become "worlds" and no-one bothers to question the legitimacy of that. Internet being a particular cause for concern...

[Guest artform]

"circle the unspeakable"

 

I thought this was a good joke

 

As long as we (mis)take our words about everything to be the case (and when I say words, what I really mean are ALL those things that we use to signify whatever is going on) then we may remain in very real trouble.

 

I have nothing against words, in fact they're great but I get concerned when words are allowed to become "worlds" and no-one bothers to question the legitimacy of that. Internet being a particular cause for concern...

 

Glad you like it Kate! And your caution about the worlds of words is interesting, fun and problematic too. You may know The Symbolic Species: The Co-Evolution of Language and the Brain.

 

My interest was first aroused by finding and buying a paperback of Husserl's The Phenomenology of Internal Time Consciousness 45 years ago as an undergraduate student in architecture. It was a wholly new word world filled with alpine hiking. Time was an existing central subject/object/energy for me before finding Husserl.

 

There is a new examination and exploration of this dimension of Husserl's philosophy, which is the core of his transcendental phenomenology: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Husserl+and+the+Promise+of+Time%3A+Subjectivity+in+Transcendental+Phenomenology&x=17&y=25&ih=1_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_0_1.2791_80&fsc=-1 . I am just about to dive into this one.

 

Izchak Miller's Husserl: Perception and Temporal Awareness is another earlier take on this.

 

Thanks drew for your references above. For me time and its meaning are central in all three investigatory word worlds that I mentioned above. The possibility of phenomenology is a revelation of the meaning of time. Of qigong, the full natural experience of time/consciousness. Of quantum physics, the resonant oscillating multiplicity of consciousness in/out/back/forth time.

 

And/Or what do You, Others, perceive, mentate, intend???

 

artform

Edited August 12, 2010 by artform

[al.]

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for the links.

It is right- the two systems do seem to be traversing distant paths, phenomenology along one more in the realm of the thought, qigong more in the realm of direct experience (if you discount all the theorising).

Both paths are evolving in interesting ways, I delight in thinking of what will happen when these paths converge, especially in light of scientific discovery and the growing bridge between science and spirituality.

Some exciting work that i could see tying things together is that of John Paul Eberhard, a neuroscientist who is mapping the effects of architecture on our brains/minds/health. his site-

http://www.architectureandthemind.com/

also

http://www.anfarch.org/

 

How this might correspond with traditional Oriental theories of harmony in space and the landscape is so fascinating for me! check it out.

a

[al.]

Synchronicity!

Just came across this too-

http://www.spiritdoctor.net/html/geopathic_stress1.html

an excellent piece on geopathic stress- detailing links with Feng Shui and science.

The transformation of our urban landscapes will happen in tandem with change in our language- and the key? Creating free-flow for the imagination?

[Guest artform]

Supercool. I'll check it out.

 

Great people!

 

Thanks for the additional links. I have followed ANFA (anfarch.org) for some time. It's about time that architecture, in the scientific age, does far more research and applications, rather than just paste-on I-beams-techno-pseudo.-aesthetics-etc. ...IMHO...

 

Onward, in time and aside...

 

Thanks again.

 

artform

[Guest artform]

I agree!

 

In that spirit, anyone familiar with the work of philosopher of science Gaston Bachelard? His Poetics of Reverie : http://www.amazon.com/Poetics-Reverie-Childhood-Language-Cosmos/dp/0807064130/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281641843&sr=1-3 , and Poetics of Space ( and all of his works!) are part of this flow of thought and investigations.

 

Curious about your thoughts on Bachelard if you know his work, or read it now.

 

artform

[al.]

I agree!

 

In that spirit, anyone familiar with the work of philosopher of science Gaston Bachelard? His Poetics of Reverie : http://www.amazon.com/Poetics-Reverie-Childhood-Language-Cosmos/dp/0807064130/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281641843&sr=1-3 , and Poetics of Space ( and all of his works!) are part of this flow of thought and investigations.

 

Curious about your thoughts on Bachelard if you know his work, or read it now.

 

artform

I've been trying to read his work for a while, just haven't got round to it- so thanks for the prompt!

Along similar lines- I have read this book called The Eyes of the Skin by Jahanni Pallasmaa, I'm guessing you know it too, it's an inspiration for sure.

One of its main themes is that the west has fallen into 'ocular-centrism'- the dominance of the vision over all other senses. The implications of this are manifold, but if we think of how the senses work in relation to whether they internalise the world or externalise the world, vision separates the world from us- makes it 'out there', whereas taste, touch, and smell bring the world into us, and hearing seems more balanced. So ocular-centrism reinforces our disconnection with the surrounding environment, bolsters Descartian dualism.

From an oriental perspective this might reflect the tendency of Westerners to be more Yang natured, as the eyes fall under the Wood element which is Yang...

On another note- did you know the skin can detect colour? mad huh? brings more clout to using the hands to absorb Sun or Moon Qi.

a

[nac]

Phenomenology is a systematic study of how knowledge is extracted from sense-experience. It's founder Edmund Husserl used to spend hours absorbed in meditation. He was infamous for staring at a copper bowl for hours at a time, analyzing every input from his senses and what can be rationally deduced from them. Online resources:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=husserl (Husserl's Ideas, Crisis, etc in English; Logical Investigations in German)

 

A comprehensive report by, IMHO, a rather sucky philosopher:

http://www.thelogician.net/2b_phenome_nology/2b_pheno_frame.htm

 

I highly recommend Neal Stevenson's latest SF novel Anathem, especially if you're not well acquainted with western philosophy. It's strongly influenced by the rationalist tradition to which Husserl and Godel belongs.

Edited August 13, 2010 by nac

[nac]

Phenomenology definitely represents a meeting place of Eastern and Western thought. Husserl himself said he had been inspired by Eastern ideas, and wanted to reconcile them with western rationalism.

Edited August 13, 2010 by nac

[Birch]

Excellent links! Thank you!

 

I especially enjoyed reading the feng shui stuff. It recalled something else I saw the other day about the body meridians being chains of water molecules.

[buscon]

Are you still interested in this subject?

 

I am doing a similar study and I found this:

http://east-westdialogue.org/E-dissertation.html