Caught in the Versus

[dwai]

I have been introspecting...and speculating...and I find a very striking phenomenon being repeated everywhere I turn.

We, as humans have the penchant for polarity. We cannot find rest and peace in One pole.

 

That is why we are in search for an "Other" who is the anti-thesis of what we identify with (or who we think we are). It is as if our identity is shaped not by us ourselves, but in contrast with/in opposition to something or someone else. Without the Other, the "Us" don't exist.

 

Why can't we as practitioners of esoteric disciplines, rest in the knowledge and experience of our personal practice?

Why do we have to disrespect and put down those who seem different from us?

Why do we spend so much time and energy building up these gigantic structures and then building up these gigantic antitheses to the structures we build and then defending one and tearing apart the other?

 

What is our Identity? Why can't we be at peace in the present moment, accepting it for what it is...the only thing that matters?

[3bob]

does Tao rest in only one pole, or does it rest everywhere?

 

Aum

[dwai]

does Tao rest in only one pole, or does it rest everywhere?

 

Aum

 

Tao is beyond polarity...but Polarity rises from Tao and merges into Tao.

[三江源]

Hi dwai.

 

From a constructive point of view, my response is that the ideal course of action for you is to work at these issues within your own psyche rather than wonder about humanity as a whole.

 

When you chase your own gremlins, you'll see their true faces, and out of that will grow compassion for what we are all dealing with.

[Enishi]

All is "One", but the One is also Many.

 

I think that differentiation and the resulting "us vs. them" mindset and the tendency for people to fall into opposed paradigms is basically natural and unavoidable. It's part of what allows for the Many to flourish. When you become conscious of your own tendency to seek out a "nemesis" you do tend to develop more compassion, but the tendency is still there. I think that people naturally internalize a certain set of perspectives and information and its very hard for them to move past it. You can't be 100% logical and knowledgable 100% and still expect to escape sabretooth tigers or protect your tribe, so in a respect the internalized perspectives and thoughts do play an important role.

[三江源]

mindsets change from practices. this is one of the reasons that we do them. the 'us and them' is a polarity very much able to be seen through via heart practices.

[Marblehead]

Well, I was going to make some comments but reading the post I got to Cat's first post and I realized that I need to keep my mouth shut.

 

Thank you for that post Cat. I try hard to keep that in mind whenever I think I have a conflict with another person.

 

Peace & Love!

[三江源]

Well, I was going to make some comments but reading the post I got to Cat's first post and I realized that I need to keep my mouth shut.

 

Thank you for that post Cat. I try hard to keep that in mind whenever I think I have a conflict with another person.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Peace and Love to you too.

 

xxx

[三江源]

 

cat, your statement reminds me of something i learned through my chi gung practices:

 

cultivate what you want more of in life.

 

if i am peeved about the lack of love or the lack of peace in the world, i can simply take the step of being loving and peaceful to myself and with those in my life. (and that's just the beginning of what i can work on.)

 

Yes, rainbow, this is exactly where I am at.

[goldisheavy]

Why can't we as practitioners of esoteric disciplines, rest in the knowledge and experience of our personal practice?

Why do we have to disrespect and put down those who seem different from us?

Why do we spend so much time and energy building up these gigantic structures and then building up these gigantic antitheses to the structures we build and then defending one and tearing apart the other?

 

What is our Identity? Why can't we be at peace in the present moment, accepting it for what it is...the only thing that matters?

 

Are you polarizing respect and disrespect?

 

Are you polarizing the attitude of oneness from the attitude of separateness?

 

Are you splitting those who can rest in the present moment and those who cannot?

 

I'm not saying any of this as a criticism or as a moral hint of any kind. I am saying this to hopefully reflect back on you some of what you are projecting outward.

[forestofemptiness]

It sounds like you've found the arrow in the chest. The question isn't, Why is there an arrow in my chest?, it is, How do I get it out?

[Sloppy Zhang]

The need for humans to categorize, polarize, and limit, is something I too have noticed- but it's pretty inescapable from a logical point of view.

 

The other day I was having a conversation with someone about God. I said, "I don't really like the way that people label God. It's so limiting. I think God is infinite. But that too is limiting. What if God wants to be finite? What if God wants to be 17.5 units (of whatever?) Well God should be able to do that. Because God can do what God wants to do. But that then prevents God from being infinite, which God should be able to do. It's not just an issue of infinitely being everything, and it's not an issue of being one thing specifically. It's being both, yet neither. It's about transcending... but what is God transcending? What if God wants to be right here??? See, there's no escaping!"

 

Or something to that effect.....

 

Why did I quote myself instead of just saying what I thought....

 

*ahem* the point is that the way we see things is by categories, and we tend to get into fierce arguments and create very complex defenses for why our categories are right, why others' are wrong, whether there should be categories, and all other sorts of stuff.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[dwai]

Are you polarizing respect and disrespect?

 

Are you polarizing the attitude of oneness from the attitude of separateness?

 

Are you splitting those who can rest in the present moment and those who cannot?

 

I'm not saying any of this as a criticism or as a moral hint of any kind. I am saying this to hopefully reflect back on you some of what you are projecting outward.

 

hmm...true. I have to think about this...thanks

[dwai]

It sounds like you've found the arrow in the chest. The question isn't, Why is there an arrow in my chest?, it is, How do I get it out?

 

 

 

Yes. But after I get it out, how do prevent it from getting back in there? Perhaps knowing it is the best way to get it out and keep it out?

I don't know...

[dwai]

Hi dwai.

 

From a constructive point of view, my response is that the ideal course of action for you is to work at these issues within your own psyche rather than wonder about humanity as a whole.

 

When you chase your own gremlins, you'll see their true faces, and out of that will grow compassion for what we are all dealing with.

 

Agreed...I am learning this slowly with practice. But Humanity does have a role to play, does it not? And the "We/Us" is "me/I". It is also not a phenomenon unique to one but all of humanity. So perhaps the answer lies in understanding the why through like you suggested...is there something basic and primal in human nature that makes us the way we are?

Edited April 17, 2010 by dwai

[hyok]

It's the nature of this place. It's why men and women exist. Sun and moon. The duality is intentional and forces us to discover insight through analysis of these polarities.

[forestofemptiness]

This is what I do:

 

Practice, practice, practice. Along with a healthy dose of attention.

 

Spiritual practice, in my opinion, is nothing more than self-knowledge. As we study ourselves, we begin to see how these things arise. As we see this, these things have less impact on us. Our old habits begin to dissolve.

 

Specific for you: what would happen if you did atma vichara with the same energy that you brought to the Buddhist v. Advaita debates?

 

 

Yes. But after I get it out, how do prevent it from getting back in there? Perhaps knowing it is the best way to get it out and keep it out?

I don't know...

[dwai]

This is what I do:

 

Practice, practice, practice. Along with a healthy dose of attention.

 

Spiritual practice, in my opinion, is nothing more than self-knowledge. As we study ourselves, we begin to see how these things arise. As we see this, these things have less impact on us. Our old habits begin to dissolve.

 

Specific for you: what would happen if you did atma vichara with the same energy that you brought to the Buddhist v. Advaita debates?

 

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you think I dont?

I agree with you about Spiritual Practice.

[Marblehead]

Less talk, more hugs? Everyone could use more hugs.

 

Hugs to you all!

 

Alright!!! Now we are getting to the basics!

 

Less talk and more hugs.

 

I like hugs. Mostly with women but there are a few guys I hug.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Marblehead,

 

I noticed that a couple of posters in another thread had difficulty appreciating all the love and peace you try to spread around this board.

 

I say: peace and love and hugs!

 

Rainbow_Vein

 

Hehehe. Yeah, folks sometimes don't believe I am really real when I make that offer but it is truely sincere. I do wish everyone peace and love because this world would be so much of a better place to live if there were more peace & love and less war and hatred.

 

I will continue to use my "Peace & Love!" signature but anyone can understand it to include a hug if they so wish.

 

BTW Hugging is a good way to exchange Chi with another person.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

I have been introspecting...and speculating...and I find a very striking phenomenon being repeated everywhere I turn.

We, as humans have the penchant for polarity. We cannot find rest and peace in One pole.

 

That is why we are in search for an "Other" who is the anti-thesis of what we identify with (or who we think we are). It is as if our identity is shaped not by us ourselves, but in contrast with/in opposition to something or someone else. Without the Other, the "Us" don't exist.

 

Why can't we as practitioners of esoteric disciplines, rest in the knowledge and experience of our personal practice?

Why do we have to disrespect and put down those who seem different from us?

Why do we spend so much time and energy building up these gigantic structures and then building up these gigantic antitheses to the structures we build and then defending one and tearing apart the other?

 

What is our Identity? Why can't we be at peace in the present moment, accepting it for what it is...the only thing that matters?

 

"O Seeker,

These thoughts have such power over you.

From nothing you become sad.

From nothing you become happy.

You are burning in the flames.

But I will not let you out,

Until you are fully baked,

Fully wise,

And fully yourself"

 

- Rumi