Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

[AaronMHatch]

[findley]

one of the cooler things about living taoist philosophy are the contradictions.

 

I love it, and yet I live it almost completely contrary. Could be because I am young, and the wisdom of the TTC is for old men... Or it could be because I have earned a sense of security int he way in which i live my life.

 

Anyways, 'know the white, but stick to the black.' -->it is TTC, but I forget where.

 

PS I think you should read a couple -complete- translations of the passage marblehead is citing.

[AaronMHatch]

"75

The reason why people starve,

Is because they take so much in tax-grain.

Therefore they starve.

The reason why the common people cannot be ruled,

Is because their superiors have their reason for acting.

Therefore they cannot be ruled.

 

The reason why people take death lightly,

Is because they so avidly seek after life.

Therefore they take death lightly.

Only those who do not act for the purpose of living—

Only these are superior to those who value life."

 

I suppose I don't understand the point of Marble's posting, given the contradiction.

Edited April 4, 2010 by AaronMHatch

[Marblehead]

Hi Findley,

 

Nice response. Thanks!

 

 

 

Hi Aaron,

 

Chapter 75 is not the chapter that the initial post is referencing.

 

It is actually Chapter 50 that is being spoken to.

 

Henricks' translation:

 

1. We come out into life and go back into death.

2. The companions of life are thirteen;

3. The companions of death are thirteen;

4. And yet people, because they regard life as LIFE, in all of their actions move towards the thirteen that belong to the realm of death.

5. Now, why is this so?

6. It's because they regard life as LIFE.

7. You've no doubt heard of those who are good at holding on to life:

8. When walking through hills, they don't avoid rhinos and tigers;

9. When they go into battle, they don't put on armor or shields;

10. The rhino has no place to probe with its horn;

11. The tiger finds no place to put its claws.

12. And weapons find no place to hold their blades.

13. Now, why is this so?

14. Because there is no place for death in them.

 

Of course, this links back to the "Chapter 36" that I posted a few days ago.

 

Yes, there are obvious contradictions (or paradoxes) in Lao Tzu's writing. But when viewed deeper to the roots of the concepts we see the truth in what has been said and all contradictions disappear.

 

For me, the words "... for the purpose of living ..." refers to those who base life on externals. LIFE refers to our internal essence - our spirituality.

 

Peace & Love!

[AaronMHatch]

Hi Findley,

 

Nice response. Thanks!

 

 

 

Hi Aaron,

 

Chapter 75 is not the chapter that the initial post is referencing.

 

It is actually Chapter 50 that is being spoken to.

 

Henricks' translation:

 

1. We come out into life and go back into death.

2. The companions of life are thirteen;

3. The companions of death are thirteen;

4. And yet people, because they regard life as LIFE, in all of their actions move towards the thirteen that belong to the realm of death.

5. Now, why is this so?

6. It's because they regard life as LIFE.

7. You've no doubt heard of those who are good at holding on to life:

8. When walking through hills, they don't avoid rhinos and tigers;

9. When they go into battle, they don't put on armor or shields;

10. The rhino has no place to probe with its horn;

11. The tiger finds no place to put its claws.

12. And weapons find no place to hold their blades.

13. Now, why is this so?

14. Because there is no place for death in them.

 

Of course, this links back to the "Chapter 36" that I posted a few days ago.

 

Yes, there are obvious contradictions (or paradoxes) in Lao Tzu's writing. But when viewed deeper to the roots of the concepts we see the truth in what has been said and all contradictions disappear.

 

For me, the words "... for the purpose of living ..." refers to those who base life on externals. LIFE refers to our internal essence - our spirituality.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Thanks for the clarification. Is this passage suggesting that the more wise are the ones who do not avoid rhinos and who go into battle unarmed? I understand that in many cases Lao Tzu ought not be interpreted literally. I'm presuming that there is, however, an underlying argument.

[Marblehead]

Thanks for the clarification. Is this passage suggesting that the more wise are the ones who do not avoid rhinos and who go into battle unarmed? I understand that in many cases Lao Tzu ought not be interpreted literally. I'm presuming that there is, however, an underlying argument.

 

You're welcome.

 

This question is a little tricky to answer. The subject is speaking to awareness. You don't fear rhinos because you are aware of their presence - you are aware of the mood of the rhino - you do nothing to cause the rhino to think that you are a danger to it.

 

As to going into battle, I think the proper wording is you go into battle without armor, not unarmed. Again, you do not need armor because you will not put yourself in harm's way. You know who the enemy is, you know his strengths and weaknesses and you present yourself to your enemiy's weaknesses, not his strengths. If you are the aggressor what use would you have for defensive armor?

 

Again, awareness is key here. Being aware of your surroundings you can avoid almost all disasters. But even so, if disaster come you understand that this is what has to be because of conditions and you have no fear of the results, even if the result is death.

 

Peace & Love!

[AaronMHatch]

I like that answer. I shall think about it.

 

Thanks!

[Marblehead]

I like that answer. I shall think about it.

 

Thanks!

 

That's great. That's all I ask of anyone who reads any of my posts. Think. I know that not everyone is going to agree with me all the time. That's not my goal here anyhow. (Actually, I don't even have a goal. Just continuing my journey.)

 

Peace & Love!

[JustARandomPanda]

I love your TTC posts Marble. BTW - if I were to get a copy of TTC what translation would you recommend?

[Marblehead]

I love your TTC posts Marble. BTW - if I were to get a copy of TTC what translation would you recommend?

 

Thanks Serene. Remember, "my chapters" are totally inconsistent with the actual 81 chapters of the TTC.

 

There are so many good translations. I have always liked Henricks'. It's not as pretty as some others but it is supposed to be one of the most accurate and it is fairly recent (1989). One thing about Henricks' translation though is that that is all it is - a translation. He offers no interpretation.

 

Derek Lin's translation includes excellent, IMO, intrepretation along with his translation.

 

Peace & Love!