What if?

[Eternal_Student]

What if nothing was important? What if all of these so called practices, were just choices. Choices that do not matter. What if displays of "powers" were nothing more than tricks to promote more followers. What if seminal retention was an excuse the older monks told the younger monks to come to terms with not having a sexual partner, in order to give themselves over to a monastery that would not exist without followers? What if karma was just a human creation and had no bearing on actual events? What if meditation is a method that leads to death, just in a different capacity but no more important than overdosing on drugs? What if when you die, the same thing happens to you as everyone else because we are all the same. Nobody goes to heaven, nobody goes to hell, we just return. What if I told you that learning to move your qi was the same as learning to move your arm? In the end, its just a choice of freewill that makes you no different from a stock broker who learns to move commodities. What if life was just an experience of ourselves that we created, because we were bored.

 

What if....

[Andrei]

you need to read Gurdjieff, if you want the answers for all these questions... I mean if you agree with his philosophy it would be more clear...

[Aetherous]

What if? Then we are free to live as we choose.

[hagar]

Pretty much summed it up for me, at one point.

 

h

Edited November 20, 2009 by hagar

[Kameel]

This reminds me of the game/book, "Would You Rather?" Would you rather vomit everytime someone says your name or have your genitals glow in the dark for everyone to see? (Stuff along those lines).

Edited November 20, 2009 by Kameel

[Encephalon]

What if...?

 

Then I would say you have remarkable consistency with the Buddha, modern psychology, the postmodern realization, systems theory, ecology, Stephen Batchelor, David Loy, Fritjof Capra, Timothy Ferris, Carl Sagan and Albert Einstein.

 

I would say that you are in good company, while most people here would think you are a freak or a heretic. You can sit at my table any time.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Blasto

[steve]

What if nothing was important? What if all of these so called practices, were just choices. Choices that do not matter. What if displays of "powers" were nothing more than tricks to promote more followers. What if seminal retention was an excuse the older monks told the younger monks to come to terms with not having a sexual partner, in order to give themselves over to a monastery that would not exist without followers? What if karma was just a human creation and had no bearing on actual events? What if meditation is a method that leads to death, just in a different capacity but no more important than overdosing on drugs? What if when you die, the same thing happens to you as everyone else because we are all the same. Nobody goes to heaven, nobody goes to hell, we just return. What if I told you that learning to move your qi was the same as learning to move your arm? In the end, its just a choice of freewill that makes you no different from a stock broker who learns to move commodities. What if life was just an experience of ourselves that we created, because we were bored.

 

What if....

 

It wouldn't surprise me, not one little bit...

 

 

What if...?

 

Then I would say you have remarkable consistency with the Buddha, modern psychology, the postmodern realization, systems theory, ecology, Stephen Batchelor, David Loy, Fritjof Capra, Timothy Ferris, Carl Sagan and Albert Einstein.

 

I would say that you are in good company, while most people here would think you are a freak or a heretic. You can sit at my table any time.

 

May I join you as well?

[Dainin]

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

 

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

 

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

 

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

 

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

[Marblehead]

What if ...?

 

No, I don't ask those questions anymore. And the reason is that the answers no longer matter.

 

I will just hang around as long as I can and try to enjoy every minute of it.

 

Yes, I used to imagine too.

 

Peace & Love!

[i_am_sam]

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.

There's nothing you can do that can't be done.

Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.

Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game

It's easy.

There's nothing you can make that can't be made.

No one you can save that can't be saved.

Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you

in time - It's easy.

 

All you need is love, all you need is love,

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.

All you need is love, all you need is love,

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

There's nothing you can know that isn't known.

Nothing you can see that isn't shown.

Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.

It's easy.

All you need is love, all you need is love,

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

All you need is love (all together now)

All you need is love (everybody)

All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

"What if"?..... anything that follows is 'conditional', and very likely pointless.. rather than letting the moment reveal itself, you are 'lost in thought', pondering what ifs.. it has been my experience that any 'what if' is both pointless and profound simultaneously.. that being the case, the sane perspective is to simply 'pay attention'..

 

There is a huge difference between 'What if', and.. 'What is'.. one, what if, is imagination.. the other, what is, is Clarity.. and, both are free-willed choices..

 

Be well..

[Encephalon]

Greetings..

 

"What if"?..... anything that follows is 'conditional', and very likely pointless.. rather than letting the moment reveal itself, you are 'lost in thought', pondering what ifs.. it has been my experience that any 'what if' is both pointless and profound simultaneously.. that being the case, the sane perspective is to simply 'pay attention'..

 

There is a huge difference between 'What if', and.. 'What is'.. one, what if, is imagination.. the other, what is, is Clarity.. and, both are free-willed choices..

 

Be well..

 

I believe Eternal Student's point was very precise about the perils of conditionality and it completely bounced off your forehead. Try a second reading.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I believe Eternal Student's point was very precise about the perils of conditionality and it completely bounced off your forehead. Try a second reading.

Hi Blasto: Agreed, you do 'believe'.. and, after a second and more readings, i cannot find a contradiction between ES's post, and my own.. both seem to point directly at 'Tao', do you see it differently?

 

Be well..

[Encephalon]

Greetings..

Hi Blasto: Agreed, you do 'believe'.. and, after a second and more readings, i cannot find a contradiction between ES's post, and my own.. both seem to point directly at 'Tao', do you see it differently?

 

Be well..

 

Then your post bounced of MY forehead. Sorry. It sounded like you were impugning ES's point at first.

[Marblehead]

Hehehe.

 

I'm glad that's settled.

 

Peace & Love!

[taijilee]

What if nothing was important?

 

Nothing carries importance until one places importance on it.

 

What if all of these so called practices, were just choices. Choices that do not matter.

 

I would give a quote from the tao te ching here but if you are doubting everything, chances are you doubt the validity of that too. instead I'm gonna leave you with this story I got from taoism.net

 

I knew a zen master. I asked him about life. He said, "Life is empty and meaningless."

 

I said, "That can't be so!"

 

He said, "And it doesn't mean anything that it doesn't mean anything."

 

And I still said, "No!"

 

Then he said, "And that gives you the freedom to make it up to mean whatever you want it to."

 

 

And I said, "Ahh!"

 

[Moonbar]

Excellent post, please set me a place at you table too

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

All the people here and elsewhere, with the varying beliefs as to The Way Things Really Are, basically no two of them can be right, or perhaps all of them are right. It reminds me of a terrific book I read, ""How to Believe in Nothing and Set Yourself Free". All these Beliefs, how can you really believe in anything? The overwhelming odds are that your belief system is all relative, no one can know what is the truth of Ultimate Reality, despite what Lao Tzu said, the Buddha said, Muhammed said, Jesus said, or what you have "realized" in your meditations...so ultimately, it's like what the Marblehead says, just try and enjoy your time here and live in the present. Realize that whatever you believe is not the absolute truth. Reality is likely much more astounding than the human mind can conceive of, and would probably blow your mind...for example:

 

xmdIbp87KLg

 

Eternal Student, these questions you pose show a greater realization than many show here, like for example, the Buddhist fundamentalists...

 

While we're doing Beatles or Lennon lyrics, how's this from 'The End" on Abbey Road:

 

And in the end

The love you take

Is equal to the love you make.

Edited November 22, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[C T]

All these Beliefs, how can you really believe in anything? The overwhelming odds are that your belief system is all relative, no one can know what is the truth of Ultimate Reality, despite what Lao Tzu said, the Buddha said, Muhammed said, Jesus said, or what you have "realized" in your meditations...so ultimately, it's like what the Marblehead says, just try and enjoy your time here and live in the present. Realize that whatever you believe is not the absolute truth. Reality is likely much more astounding than the human mind can conceive of, and would probably blow your mind..

 

Eternal Student, these questions you pose show a greater realization than many show here, like for example, the Buddhist fundamentalists...

Dear Mr Songs,

 

It looks to me like your comment here is as fundamental as they come.

 

You just happen to be standing on the other bank, thats all. Naturally, we would tend to assume that standing on the one side automatically accord us the privilege of 'spitting' across at the other side, but what you do not realize is, in effect, what you are doing is spitting up over your head.

 

I have no quarrels with you Songs, but sometimes your comments (in the form of subtle jabs) about Buddhists and their views does leave a bit of an aftertaste.

 

(Apologies to ES for veering off-topic. I just didn't find that remark about fundamentalist Buddhists necessary or useful).

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Mr Cow,

 

I'm speaking to one Buddhist 'fundamentalist' in particular who used to post here excessively with the attitude that his way was superior to all others, and that his 'beliefs' were actually "apprehensions of the truth" (that's a direct quote) and posited that he and his Buddhist guru were in possession of the Ultimate Truth of the Nature of Reality because xyz sutra said this is the way things are.

 

I have nothing against Buddhism or Buddhists, just the crusaders who derailed this forum to preach their way for a while. I want to point out that anybody who says that their path is the True and Correct one is misguided. It's too bad that you don't understand my position that all these schools of thought can't all be right, or that they are all equally right: the truth of reality is much like the story of the blind man and the elephant. There is no bank I'm standing on spitting at the other side. I don't understand how my view is fundamentalist. Where is the scripture that I'm rigid and fundamental in adhering to?

 

Your Pal,

 

Mr Songs

Edited November 22, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[C T]

Mr Cow,

 

I'm speaking to one Buddhist 'fundamentalist' in particular who used to post here excessively with the attitude that his way was superior to all others, and that his 'beliefs' were actually "apprehensions of the truth" (that's a direct quote) and posited that he and his Buddhist guru were in possession of the Ultimate Truth of the Nature of Reality because xyz sutra said this is the way things are.

 

I have nothing against Buddhism or Buddhists, just the crusaders who derailed this forum to preach their way for a while. I want to point out that anybody who says that their path is the True and Correct one is misguided. It's too bad that you don't understand my position that all these schools of thought can't all be right, or that they are all equally right: the truth of reality is much like the story of the blind man and the elephant. There is no bank I'm standing on spitting at the other side. I don't understand how my view is fundamentalist. Where is the scripture that I'm rigid and fundamental in adhering to?

 

Your Pal,

 

Mr Songs

Aha, Mr. Songs.. Your reply has jolted my memory!

 

You have every right to feel the way you felt when that little thing was going on, so no dispute there okay?

 

Since its now past, might be better to drop the load off your back i think - your journey will be all the more pleasant!

 

I agree with you - Reality IS. To say it is some 'thing' is one extreme, and to say it is no 'thing' is the other extreme. Try to grasp it, and we end up clutching at a whole bunch of meaningless words.

 

Peace.

 

Equally your pal,

 

Mr Cow.