Teddy

Qigong and energy work and yoga and stuff shorten your life span

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fun thread Teddy!

 

I've always remarked at the short life spans of martial artists and soldiers, etc through history even when you don't include those who die by the sword.

 

I think that is related to what 5ET and ralis are saying... those guys just run too hot for longevity but they have other fish to fry so I'm sure it all works out.

 

I think there are certainly non-martial cultivators who die young and perhaps that is a sign of poor cultivation... I don't know. The type that get too too otherworldly and just drift off or the sort who are following the martial cultivation recipes for maximal energy and blow out.

 

Longevity is definitely a handy thing for a cultivator to have imo... to some extent you have to start over each lifetime.

 

Yogani said that there's a difference between cultivating chi and cultivating the Tao and perhaps there's something to that.

 

Yoda

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according to these statistics from the Department of Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics....

 

Wang Xiangzhai nearly doubled his life expectancy for the people born when he was.

Dr. Glen Morris died around the same age he was expected to.

 

And everyone else on your list exceeded the life expectancy for the era that they lived in. (note that these stats are for the United States, so that makes this even more impressive considering the Swami from India)

You have to realize that life expectancy has almost doubled in the last century.

 

Those statistics are skewed by infant mortality. Back in the "old days" if you made it to the age of 3 or 4 you could be expected to live a full life (i.e. 70 -80) years. In some cultures you weren't even given a name until you were 2. Modern medicine hasn't increased our lifespan all that much. It just increased the number of babies that survived long enough to make a good go of it.

 

edit: this also includes many third-world countries today though I would exclude Africa since tribal warfare there is still so bad that you never really have a good shot at a long life unless your white. "TIA"

Edited by Dreamingawake

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Glenn Morris (KAP) died age 62

Wang Xiang Zhai (founder of yiquan/da cheng chuan) died age 78

Yang Chengfu (yang tai chi) died age 53

Swami Vishnudevananda (sivananda yoga) died age 66

Yao Zongxun died 67

 

This list could go on and on. Whenever I learn of a famous practitioner I get interested, look them up and find that they died at a young age.

 

Now please understand. I do not think think being good at energy work necessarily means that you are going to live longer than most people. It would be reasonable to expect these guys to die at a normal age.

 

...however, this is not what the evidence shows. The evidence clearly shows that practicing these arts dramatically reduces your life span.

 

I would love to find out that I am wrong about this.

 

Teddy, I'm sure you've heard of the correlation does not mean causation.

 

For example, Yang Chengfu had a severe over eating problem. He was notorious for being a martial artist who had tons of gongfu, and was exceptionally compassionate when fighting, but had issues outside of his training. This is not uncommon among martial artists.

 

Yu Yong Nian (For example) student of Wang Xiangzhai is currently teaching Zhan Zhuang daily in Beijing and is 90 years old. I have recently (The past week) spoken with someone to confirm this. He is alive and well, practicing and teaching Zhan Zhuang daily.

 

 

Number 2

 

Many people who study energy work think that "I've got all this energy , I'll live long! " WRONG.

 

You need to maintain the physical body as well as the energetic one. Glenn Morris and others (Choa Kok Sui) as far as I know had physical health ailments due to periods of inactivity or neglect.

 

You CANNOT ignore the physical demands of the body. Longevity is based first on solid biology and second on metaphysical knowledge.

 

I am extremely surprised that no one has mentioned your DIET and lifestyle ! Forget Qigong; if you are living a sedentary lifestyle and have a terrible diet, you WILL die younger than you should. Most people would do better using their free time to experience some moderate exercise (walking, hiking, Bagua) to enhance their longevity than sit and do MCO for 30 minutes. It astounds me how simple this is, but how confused people seem to be.

 

I hope that helps.

Edited by DaoChild

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Teddy, I'm sure you've heard of the correlation does not mean causation.

 

For example, Yang Chengfu had a severe over eating problem. He was notorious for being a martial artist who had tons of gongfu, and was exceptionally compassionate when fighting, but had issues outside of his training. This is not uncommon among martial artists.

 

Yu Yong Nian (For example) student of Wang Xiangzhai is currently teaching Zhan Zhuang daily in Beijing and is 90 years old. I have recently (The past week) spoken with someone to confirm this. He is alive and well, practicing and teaching Zhan Zhuang daily.

Number 2

 

Many people who study energy work think that "I've got all this energy , I'll live long! " WRONG.

 

You need to maintain the physical body as well as the energetic one. Glenn Morris and others (Choa Kok Sui) as far as I know had physical health ailments due to periods of inactivity or neglect.

 

You CANNOT ignore the physical demands of the body. Longevity is based first on solid biology and second on metaphysical knowledge.

 

I am extremely surprised that no one has mentioned your DIET and lifestyle ! Forget Qigong; if you are living a sedentary lifestyle and have a terrible diet, you WILL die younger than you should. Most people would do better using their free time to experience some moderate exercise (walking, hiking, Bagua) to enhance their longevity than sit and do MCO for 30 minutes. It astounds me how simple this is, but how confused people seem to be.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Yep :) I bolded the part i liked the most... Phyisical body is VERY IMPORTANT. Ask a buddhist, they say that the chanse of getting a physical body is once every million eons or so...

The physical body is the best tool for alchemy... too bad many neglect it, in favor of 'energy'.

Energy is all-pervading, but without a 'cauldron', how can you crystalize it??

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Most people would do better using their free time to experience some moderate exercise (walking, hiking, Bagua) to enhance their longevity than sit and do MCO for 30 minutes.

 

You left out Tai Chi. Yang Style Tai Chi is awesome for health.

 

A nice moderate exercise/meditation/energy work combination :D

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Let's not forget swimming either!

 

There is a system call Total Immersion which focuses on swimming faster with less effort by improving form and technique for greater efficiency. It's kind of like an aquatic version of the "Chi Running" book. In fact the two authors sometimes do workshops together.

 

I remember watching Ian Thorpe swim in the Olympics a few years back. His form was so smooth it looked like he wasn't trying that hard, yet he was winning medals.

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You left out Tai Chi. Yang Style Tai Chi is awesome for health.

 

A nice moderate exercise/meditation/energy work combination :D

 

Yes absolutely. Tai Chi (done properly ;) ) Is great for your health. T T Liang went in for an inspection in his 80s and was said to have the organs of a 40 year old.

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Synchronicity I'm currently reading Steal My Art: The Life and Times of T'ai Chi Master, T.T. Liang. Fun book.

 

And yes Swimming is great too. I sometimes zone out staring at the black line on the bottom of the pool listening to my breathing. I swim with a snorkel.

 

The Secrets to an Interminable Life

 

Cool info, Thanks

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Yep :) I bolded the part i liked the most... Phyisical body is VERY IMPORTANT. Ask a buddhist, they say that the chanse of getting a physical body is once every million eons or so...

The physical body is the best tool for alchemy... too bad many neglect it, in favor of 'energy'.

Energy is all-pervading, but without a 'cauldron', how can you crystalize it??

 

The Buddhists call it the "precious human birth". It is a bit of a stretch to believe that humans are somehow the highest life form for spiritual evolution.

 

ralis

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haha yes I use to think that about health too. Cool "powers" are so much more appealing until you realise you just want to get out of bed without pain in the morning :D

:lol:

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Teddy, I'm sure you've heard of the correlation does not mean causation.

 

For example, Yang Chengfu had a severe over eating problem. He was notorious for being a martial artist who had tons of gongfu, and was exceptionally compassionate when fighting, but had issues outside of his training. This is not uncommon among martial artists.

 

Yu Yong Nian (For example) student of Wang Xiangzhai is currently teaching Zhan Zhuang daily in Beijing and is 90 years old. I have recently (The past week) spoken with someone to confirm this. He is alive and well, practicing and teaching Zhan Zhuang daily.

Number 2

 

Many people who study energy work think that "I've got all this energy , I'll live long! " WRONG.

 

You need to maintain the physical body as well as the energetic one. Glenn Morris and others (Choa Kok Sui) as far as I know had physical health ailments due to periods of inactivity or neglect.

 

You CANNOT ignore the physical demands of the body. Longevity is based first on solid biology and second on metaphysical knowledge.

 

I am extremely surprised that no one has mentioned your DIET and lifestyle ! Forget Qigong; if you are living a sedentary lifestyle and have a terrible diet, you WILL die younger than you should. Most people would do better using their free time to experience some moderate exercise (walking, hiking, Bagua) to enhance their longevity than sit and do MCO for 30 minutes. It astounds me how simple this is, but how confused people seem to be.

 

I hope that helps.

Choa Kok Sui) as far as I know had physical health ailments due to periods of inactivity or neglect.

That is not the case---GMCKS worked night and day and traveled to a different country every other week teaching and healing year after year he had a mission and completed it---I know he is my Guruji....

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of course, sitting around doing nothing, like a vegetable, will make you live longer, and happier

i bet this guy does the same:

 

 

 

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name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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of course, sitting around doing nothing, like a vegetable, will make you live longer, and happier

i bet this guy does the same:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

What's that? It looks like Hung gar, or Shaolin.

 

One thing that came to my mind is a comment Bruce once made: would you rather be as weak as you can be, and healthy, or be strong, and unhealthy. In the water tradition strength is seldom associated with health. And in particular the sensation of strength is not associated with health (as it derives from a blockage). Also in the water tradition being an immortal does not mean that your physical body lives longer. His teacher Liu Hung Chieh died in 1986 of a natural death. He was born in 1905, so that makes about 81 year.

He knew when he was going to die and for what I know he did not try to extend his life. So there is also a whole school of people who are just trying to live a life of their natural lifespan. (I know tas

 

So I would agreee that

I) we miss good statistics

II) statistics need to be contextualized by the time, space, culture where they are taken.

III) often people who do energetic practices do so because they want to overcome a disadvantage (some were weakly kids, etc). SO they are not a good sample of the population, so even comparing statistics with the general statistics of the populations is not necessarily the best.

IV) it heavily depends on what are the practices being done, and how well are those practices done.

V) some school of practices do not even aim to extend the life at all.

 

So I would say that considering all this, we don't know. Maybe the only thing we can say is that people doing chi gung feel better, and at times are able to overcome some problems. But consistency of results is not really with us.

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Choa Kok Sui) as far as I know had physical health ailments due to periods of inactivity or neglect.

That is not the case---GMCKS worked night and day and traveled to a different country every other week teaching and healing year after year he had a mission and completed it---I know he is my Guruji....

 

And his diet?

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What's that? It looks like Hung gar, or Shaolin.

 

It's Cha Quan. The guy is a student of Liping, but he is not allowed to teach...

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Those statistics are skewed by infant mortality. Back in the "old days" if you made it to the age of 3 or 4 you could be expected to live a full life (i.e. 70 -80) years.

 

The second column is life expectancy for children at the age of 10 for that year. The results are only slightly better for the average person, and these practicioners still lived as long if not longer. Not that you are 100% for sure wrong. There is just some contradiction between your word and these stats.

Edited by Old Man Contradiction

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And his diet?

 

 

He was strictly vegetarian.

 

Choa Kok Sui) as far as I know had physical health ailments due to periods of inactivity or neglect.

That is not the case---GMCKS worked night and day and traveled to a different country every other week teaching and healing year after year he had a mission and completed it---I know he is my Guruji....

 

 

He had physical ailments because of karmic factors. The spiritual technology he developed, Arhatic Yoga, is known for faster spiritual development, however because of this you also have to pay back your negative karma at a faster rate than usual.

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Paramahansa Yogananda also died of a heart attack at age 59..

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I think this topic really warrants a comprehensive, statistical study. Compile as many data points out there (various masters & gurus) and plot them out on a graph. Then see if there is any pattern - when compared to the average lifespans in their eras/locales?

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On 9/22/2009 at 3:51 AM, Teddy said:

Yang Chengfu (yang tai chi) died age 53

2 theories about this one (injuries from a challenge and/or obesity):

Quote

   陳天申 Chen Tianshen, a ninety year old elder martial artist from Hanzhou, finally disclosed why Yang Chengfu and another martial artist 蕭聘三 Xiao Pinsan died so young. He said, “Our cultural history is so rich, sometimes it is difficult to see the truth at the moment.” Chen was a vice director of the Hanzhou Wushu organization in the 1980s, and now he pulled from his memory events from more than 70 years ago (the original article was written in the 2000s).
   In 1929, the “Western Study” group organized a national Wushu competition. Yang family founder Yang Chengfu (since Chengfu had numerous students and standardized the “large frame,” he is often also referred to as a founder) and the Southern style master 蕭聘三 Xiao Pinsan and other martial artists went to Hanzhou to compete. During 7 days of competition, 109 martial artist entered the competition stage. It was a very popular event with many audience attending. There were also western martial artists, but none dared to enter the stage. After the event, the “Western Study” group built a new school - and it proudly displayed “Zhe Jiang province National Wushu School” on its front door. Masters 蘇景由 Su Jingyou、楊澄甫 Yang Chengfu、劉百川 Liu Baichuan、蕭聘三 Xiao Pinsan were among the teachers. In 1930, the then 15 years old Chen Tianshen became the school’s first student.
  One day in 1931, around 8 O’Clock in the morning, Xiao Pinsan was teaching Chen Tianshen the “Black Tiger Fist” at the school. When practicing the Black Tiger Fist, one shouts and stomps the feet. When a high level practitioner stomps their foot at the mud, they would leave a footprint there. Chen Tianshen said, “There were about 30 students at that time, and we asked Sifu Xiao to demonstrate. Sifu Xiao asked us to put some bricks on the mud, and then put a heavy stone slab on top. Sifu Xiao then performed the Black Tiger Fist form on top of the slab. He shouted a few times, then stomped his foot, and both the slab and the bricks underneath were shattered.”
  Having seen such demonstration of high level kung fu, the students cheered loudly. Unfortunately, the noise woke up Yang Chengfu who was asleep at that time. Yang Chengfu was the director then and he had a habit of waking up late. He put his coat on and came out, asking “What is going on? Why is there such noise?” Xiao Pinsan replied, “I am teaching the students Black Tiger Fist.” Yang Chengfu said, “that skill is useless!” This angered Xiao Pinsan a great deal and he challenged Yang for a match. Yang Chengfu said, “Fine, you hit my stomach 3 times first.”
  Xiao Pinsan hit Yang Chengfu at the stomach. Chen Tianshen and other students saw that Yang Chengfu’s face contorted in pain. Chen Tianshen continued, “When Xiao Pinsan hit the second time, we all could smell blood coming from Yang Chengfu’s mouth. When Xiao hit the third time, Yang Chengfu held his stomach tightly with his right hand, and the left hand shot out and hit Xiao at the chest. Xiao flew back and fell down 2 meters away, spitting blood.” This match ended with both parties injured. Not only did they not teach together any more, Xiao Pinsan died in 1933, and Yang Chengfu also passed away in 1936 from disease.
  Thus because of a small matter, two high level martial artists died early. Afterward, the Vice Director 蘇景 Su Jing asked the students to keep the event secret. This secret was kept for more than 70 years. Chen Tianshen continued, “It happened more than 70 years ago. All the teachers at that time have died. There were 38 students then, and I was the smallest ‘Little Ghost.’ Now even this ‘Little Ghost’ is over 90 years old. This event has been in my mind all these times. We can all take lessons from what happened!”

  Sifu Jing Hua was knowledgeable in both Chinese and Western medicine. He thought that master Chengfu died early because of his dietary habits. When master Chengfu was young practicing, he would swing his waxwood pole left and right 200 times and then “brushing” the tree 200 times. He would do standing (站樁 Zhan Zhuang, pole standing) for the length of burning 3 incense sticks. Hard practice made him to have big appetite. Each meal included 30 bun, one pig’s leg and a chicken. When Sifu Jing Hua first went to the Yang household, he saw that master Chengfu eating a huge amount (狼吞虎咽 eating fast and furious like wolves and tigers), he thought of the legendary character in Water Margin’s “tiger-beating-hero” 武松 Wu Song and was quite aghast. After a while though, he got used to the sight and did not think of it as odd. After master Chengfu became famous, he did not practice as hard. However, he did not consume less, and his weight increased to 288 lbs. He also preferred meat over vegetables, and his cholesterol and blood fat must have been very high. His edema was not from kidney disease, but resulted from the heart disease. This was a bad result of the long term high blood fat content. The ancients said, “disease comes from the mouth.” This is indeed sage advice.

 

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2 hours ago, gendao said:

. Sifu Xiao asked us to put some bricks on the mud,

1. Not "mud", cemented floor in the original.

2. The fight story is likely made up.

 

 

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