Prince hisoka

The 9 bottled wind pranayam...

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hi everyone,

I just wanted to hear what practitioners have to say about this pranayam (getting any results out of it ?). I found on the meditationexpert website introduced by William Bodri. For me i started doing the 9 bottled wind a while ago , and whenever i performed this breathing excerise , i felt some wierd stuff in my body; my head felt like expanding and the top of the skull would feel like if it's under extremley high pressure :unsure: , my abdomen starts to feel funny , and if i am counting i would get lost (because of that pressure in my head). Eventually i stopped doing it for some time, because i got scared. I started again last week, and it's going okay, like i don't feel the same pressure anymore.

Anyways i want to know how everyone is doing at this practise? :)

Thanks,

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One of the best breathing practice I learned to date and the only breathing practice Master Nan Huai-Chin recommends for opening all the meridians in a very short time.

 

It's perfectly fine how you feel. Another feeling is common is the feeling you are about to die. Or you can crap your pants. All are normal. :)

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9 bottle is fun, some quite old threads to be found here with search "9 bottle"

 

This may also be of interest Anapana and search "white skeleton meditation"

 

:)

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Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!

 

hi everyone,

I just wanted to hear what practitioners have to say about this pranayam (getting any results out of it ?). I found on the meditationexpert website introduced by William Bodri. For me i started doing the 9 bottled wind a while ago , and whenever i performed this breathing excerise , i felt some wierd stuff in my body; my head felt like expanding and the top of the skull would feel like if it's under extremley high pressure :unsure: , my abdomen starts to feel funny , and if i am counting i would get lost (because of that pressure in my head). Eventually i stopped doing it for some time, because i got scared. I started again last week, and it's going okay, like i don't feel the same pressure anymore.

Anyways i want to know how everyone is doing at this practise? :)

Thanks,

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One of the best breathing practice I learned to date and the only breathing practice Master Nan Huai-Chin recommends for opening all the meridians in a very short time.

 

It's perfectly fine how you feel. Another feeling is common is the feeling you are about to die. Or you can crap your pants. All are normal. :)

 

Thanks for the feedback Smile :) . Hopefully i won't crap my pants :lol:

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i did this technique a few times, and the most eventful thing i experienced was this:

 

Towards the end of a session i felt a bunch of crusty crunchy stuff moving out of my head. It went through some channel that feels somewhere in the center of my neck, definitely not the spinal cord and down into my chest. i felt a lot lighter, maybe more emotional.

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I lose Qi with that practice
i can imagine something that releases enough chi to forcefully break through blockages might be pretty depleting, good point :)

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I never tried it, but I have experimented successfully with Nadi Shodhana and Surya Beda, which both create great amounts of heat, and frustration, because essentially you are limiting the amount of oxygen that enters the system...Your body gets really hot, you feel like you are high, your voice changes (mine deepened, which I believed was due to bronchiodilation so that the lungs could get as much O2 as possible), nose cleared up completely. Body gets hot because body releases norepinephrine and maybe epinephrine to stimulate heartbeat and open lungs so that the less available O2 can be more efficiently shuttled..Meridians get clearer because of burning heat energy that blasts through system. Continuing with the practice would eventually allow one to become more inured to frustration energies, and thus more at peace and at bliss during non-pranayama times.

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i don't know about the rest as that isn't my area of expertise but you're spot on in re: to the heat. i get very warm after i finish, i've been coupling it with bodri's nattokinase recommendation as well.

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it's only been a week but it probably isn't something i i'll ever physically feel or notice, i'm young and in great shape.

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I never tried it, but I have experimented successfully with Nadi Shodhana and Surya Beda, which both create great amounts of heat, and frustration, because essentially you are limiting the amount of oxygen that enters the system...Your body gets really hot, you feel like you are high, your voice changes (mine deepened, which I believed was due to bronchiodilation so that the lungs could get as much O2 as possible), nose cleared up completely. Body gets hot because body releases norepinephrine and maybe epinephrine to stimulate heartbeat and open lungs so that the less available O2 can be more efficiently shuttled..Meridians get clearer because of burning heat energy that blasts through system. Continuing with the practice would eventually allow one to become more inured to frustration energies, and thus more at peace and at bliss during non-pranayama times.

Just like how increasing the time sitting in a half lotus or lotus posture, you increase the time each day and then experience the pain. The more patient you are with the pain which comes with frustration and emotional hatred/pain, the easier it is to face situations in which requires patience. For example, the one person you liked talking to stopped talking to, since you're accustomed to pain, you learn that in order for you to get over the situation requires patience and acceptance.

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Just like how increasing the time sitting in a half lotus or lotus posture, you increase the time each day and then experience the pain. The more patient you are with the pain which comes with frustration and emotional hatred/pain, the easier it is to face situations in which requires patience. For example, the one person you liked talking to stopped talking to, since you're accustomed to pain, you learn that in order for you to get over the situation requires patience and acceptance.

 

although - I have done this and it isn't necesarily healthy like pranayama can be...you can cause damage - must be careful!

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although - I have done this and it isn't necesarily healthy like pranayama can be...you can cause damage - must be careful!

Anything can be damaging. Thanks for the concern though. My knees are in tact and I have the power of youth. So if I keep this up and learn not to damage my knees and make myself more flexible. I will be able to maintain a whole lifetime.

 

I'm only working up till a certain set of time then stay there.

Hell if some people can get in 4 hrs of non-stop practice, then that says something.

 

but thinking about it, name one person who have trained full lotus and half lotus and haven't face any damage. Like Jim Nance's knees got messed up but it healed up as he cultivated more in full lotus. Some people can't walk right for months after practicing full lotus. To perfect something, you must go through pain to get to the goal. ;) I tend to practice my standing meditation longer than my full lotus anyways.

Edited by malikshreds

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but thinking about it, name one person who have trained full lotus and half lotus and haven't face any damage. Like Jim Nance's knees got messed up but it healed up as he cultivated more in full lotus. Some people can't walk right for months after practicing full lotus. To perfect something, you must go through pain to get to the goal. ;) I tend to practice my standing meditation longer than my full lotus anyways.

If you damage your knees, it means you weren't ready for it. All of the rotation should come from your ball-and-hip sockets, not knee or ankle joints.

You actually need to be able to lay your knees beyond flat on the floor in butterfly pose to sit in lotus comfortably. This could take a few years of stretching.

 

Proper full lotus is actually a difficult posture that comes from the culmination of many other yogic stretches. You have to open your kua, get extreme femur rotation, elongate your pelvic floor, straighten your spine, etc etc.. This doesn't happen overnight for all these large tendons/muscle groups.

 

Pain & damage should not be part of this process. Patience should. I'm sure even Jim Nance would probably advise this as well now too! :)

Edited by vortex

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Anything can be damaging. Thanks for the concern though. My knees are in tact and I have the power of youth. So if I keep this up and learn not to damage my knees and make myself more flexible. I will be able to maintain a whole lifetime.

 

I'm only working up till a certain set of time then stay there.

Hell if some people can get in 4 hrs of non-stop practice, then that says something.

 

but thinking about it, name one person who have trained full lotus and half lotus and haven't face any damage. Like Jim Nance's knees got messed up but it healed up as he cultivated more in full lotus. Some people can't walk right for months after practicing full lotus. To perfect something, you must go through pain to get to the goal. ;) I tend to practice my standing meditation longer than my full lotus anyways.

 

I was thinking of some really hardcore eastern/Asian guys who spent so long in full lotus that they crippled themselves permanently...I can only maintain full lotus for like 5-10 minutes before the pain is excruciating...perhaps if I trained everyday, but I don't care to...I think it's cool looking and all, but one can achieve any desired attainment of meditation/cultivation, in any position - standing, sitting, walking, lying down, or twisted like a pretzel. I admit it does create an ideal seat that is extremely stable, but I personally go for those little zen benches, or half lotus. I just don't believe in damaging the body for appearance reasons. It has no special energetic effects, although plenty will argue with me. Mudras occur in the mind, not in the body. Mudras are simply 'attitudes.' I am not preaching against external mudras, just leaving a warning to those who go all out without thoughts for tomorrow. I dont do mudras at all anymore - kechari mudra, hand mudras you name it - completely unnecessary in my opinion. Again many disagree, but this is my experience.

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If you damage your knees, it means you weren't ready for it. All of the rotation should come from your ball-and-hip sockets, not knee or ankle joints.

You actually need to be able to lay your knees beyond flat on the floor in butterfly pose to sit in lotus comfortably. This could take a few years of stretching.

 

Proper full lotus is actually a difficult posture that comes from the culmination of many other yogic stretches. You have to open your kua, get extreme femur rotation, elongate your pelvic floor, straighten your spine, etc etc.. This doesn't happen overnight for all these large tendons/muscle groups.

 

Pain & damage should not be part of this process. Patience should. I'm sure even Jim Nance would probably advise this as well now too! :)

Haha who said there won't be pain. It's a part of life. But you have a point there about damage. My legs are almost to the point where it can twist like that easily into place. Definitely my right leg. The left leg takes time. My hips are actually more open to the point I can do splits. I do have to do more stretches.

 

As to Songstan, whatever floats your boat man (in a non sarcastic way). I mean there's so many method that it depends on the individual. Full lotus is perfect for me but yet not for you. Some people condemn sitting meditation, some condemn standing meditation. It's a personal preference thing. Although, you said the pain is excruciating. Perhaps, you need to stop attaching to pain and just let it be. ;) perhaps a test for you my friend.

 

but when you said mudras are only in the mind not body. Be careful. I know you are in the process of letting things be but be careful of splitting the mind and body apart. That's dualistic thinking.

Edited by malikshreds

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Haha who said there won't be pain. It's a part of life. But you have a point there about damage. My legs are almost to the point where it can twist like that easily into place. Definitely my right leg. The left leg takes time. My hips are actually more open to the point I can do splits. I do have to do more stretches.

 

As to Songstan, whatever floats your boat man (in a non sarcastic way). I mean there's so many method that it depends on the individual. Full lotus is perfect for me but yet not for you. Some people condemn sitting meditation, some condemn standing meditation. It's a personal preference thing. Although, you said the pain is excruciating. Perhaps, you need to stop attaching to pain and just let it be. ;) perhaps a test for you my friend.

 

its true...but it doesn't mess with my knees so much as my ankles...I can actually put my leg behind my head - I am naturally super flexible...I just choose to meditate in a more efficient manner. To spend months or years (I have known some die hard meditators who took up to ten years to perfect full lotus), paying attention to something of such trivial importance, is not really my cup of tea. If you can do it easily, I say go for it. But if you are unable to actually concentrate on your object of concentration because the pain is so intense, it isn't really meditating, its suffering for ego-reasons. I am not necessarily even speaking to you - this is just something I have always contemplated. I was a personal trainer, so I have been around a lot of guys in the gym who had the 'no pain, no gain' mentality. Most of them ended up with tendinitis, stressed connective tissue, crepitus, and a bunch of other fool-gained injuries which were unnecessary. When one focuses not on appearances, but on direct results, gain occurs much quicker. I admit that I love the look of full lotus, and wish that I could do it, but I think it just doesn't work for me. Like I said, it is an excellent meditation posture, the most stable that i know of in fact, and if you can do it without ruining yourself, then you should, definitely.

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its true...but it doesn't mess with my knees so much as my ankles...I can actually put my leg behind my head - I am naturally super flexible...I just choose to meditate in a more efficient manner. To spend months or years (I have known some die hard meditators who took up to ten years to perfect full lotus), paying attention to something of such trivial importance, is not really my cup of tea. If you can do it easily, I say go for it. But if you are unable to actually concentrate on your object of concentration because the pain is so intense, it isn't really meditating, its suffering for ego-reasons. I am not necessarily even speaking to you - this is just something I have always contemplated. I was a personal trainer, so I have been around a lot of guys in the gym who had the 'no pain, no gain' mentality. Most of them ended up with tendinitis, stressed connective tissue, crepitus, and a bunch of other fool-gained injuries which were unnecessary. When one focuses not on appearances, but on direct results, gain occurs much quicker. I admit that I love the look of full lotus, and wish that I could do it, but I think it just doesn't work for me. Like I said, it is an excellent meditation posture, the most stable that i know of in fact, and if you can do it without ruining yourself, then you should, definitely.

Haha you ever watched siddhartha and remember the part of where the boatman tells Siddhartha, that time doesn't even exist. We buy time. Yet we live in the now. So if you look at it another way, rather you gain quickly or slowly is irrelevant. We're so stuck in time this, time that. When i haven't mastered something, I'm like I need this now. This should happen now. It's a mere fantasy. But if I say oh, i'm doing this now. Ok. Oh I feel pain, ok. Whatevs.

 

You know, I've heard some stories about pain. "Pain in joints is bad, pain in muscles is good." "When does pain stop? When you die." We view pain in such a bad light, that we don't just look at it as for it is. Honestly, I used to think that pain is bad if you are distracted from what you're doing. But after sometime, I realize that rather I'm sitting in burmese or half lotus, there is still pain. It's where you put your awareness at is what matters. Keep the awareness at the object or whatever and the pain doesn't bother you.

 

I used to complain about pain for months with my teachers and then one of my teachers was like, examine how you react to pain, who is experiencing the pain, how is your mind reacting to it. Once I realized that, I realized it did not matter anymore rather I feel pain.

Edited by malikshreds

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You know, I've heard some stories about pain. "Pain in joints is bad, pain in muscles is good." "When does pain stop? When you die." We view pain in such a bad light, that we don't just look at it as for it is. Honestly, I used to think that pain is bad if you are distracted from what you're doing. But after sometime, I realize that rather I'm sitting in burmese or half lotus, there is still pain. It's where you put your awareness at is what matters. Keep the awareness at the object or whatever and the pain doesn't bother you.

 

"Pain in joints is bad, pain in muscles is good." - this is my philosophy - I dont mind burning tapas, or the spiritual fire of kundalini in the mind, just anything that messes with joint stability, venous circulation or whatnot....I also possess a mind that is not easily reigned in - its hot Yang brain, so the more I can forget other incoming sensations, the better I can focus...unless I choose to make the pain my object of meditation, which is actually a great technique..

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"Pain in joints is bad, pain in muscles is good." - this is my philosophy - I dont mind burning tapas, or the spiritual fire of kundalini in the mind, just anything that messes with joint stability, venous circulation or whatnot....I also possess a mind that is not easily reigned in - its hot Yang brain, so the more I can forget other incoming sensations, the better I can focus...unless I choose to make the pain my object of meditation, which is actually a great technique..

Yeah man just investigate how your mind reacts to pain then find the source of it and throw it out. Basically knowing out all the viewpoints of pain instead of seeing it as thus. ;) You may not do this now but I betcha it'll may hit you one day.

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