Dealing with Your Demons

[Sloppy Zhang]

So today I came into close and personal contact with aspects of myself that were really not very pleasant. I mean, like, seriously, I'm very shaken. Tried to go back to sleep, but couldn't, turned on all the lights, now I'm listening to music and stuff.

 

Anyway, was wondering how you really deal with stuff that comes up over the course of cultivation? Like you always hear people say, "this will turn up deep stuff from within you, and it won't be pretty." And all along I was like, "okay, well that makese sense." But now it's actually HAPPENED, and I'd really like to know how you deal with something like this, now that it's come up?

 

At first I was pretty shaken, like I said, (even still am a bit ) but then I started wondering how I really "deal" with it. Dissolve? (I do mostly B.K. Frantzis' method) What do I dissolve, the images, the feelings, everything? Or do I accept it as part of myself, that there's negative and potential for bad in me just like with everyone else? Do I try and overcome it, or accept it? Both? Find a way to transmute it?

 

Even though I'm using some happy emotes, I'm still pretty scared, and probably not going back to sleep tonight, even though I've got a full day of work tomorrow (or.... today )

 

The thing is, I think this is my first real "break", "first encounter" with something that I can really work it, and I wanna make it count, I don't want it to go to waste.... but I don't know what to do.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[Pietro]

So today I came into close and personal contact with aspects of myself that were really not very pleasant. I mean, like, seriously, I'm very shaken. Tried to go back to sleep, but couldn't, turned on all the lights, now I'm listening to music and stuff.

 

Anyway, was wondering how you really deal with stuff that comes up over the course of cultivation? Like you always hear people say, "this will turn up deep stuff from within you, and it won't be pretty." And all along I was like, "okay, well that makese sense." But now it's actually HAPPENED, and I'd really like to know how you deal with something like this, now that it's come up?

 

At first I was pretty shaken, like I said, (even still am a bit ) but then I started wondering how I really "deal" with it. Dissolve? (I do mostly B.K. Frantzis' method) What do I dissolve, the images, the feelings, everything? Or do I accept it as part of myself, that there's negative and potential for bad in me just like with everyone else? Do I try and overcome it, or accept it? Both? Find a way to transmute it?

 

Even though I'm using some happy emotes, I'm still pretty scared, and probably not going back to sleep tonight, even though I've got a full day of work tomorrow (or.... today )

 

The thing is, I think this is my first real "break", "first encounter" with something that I can really work it, and I wanna make it count, I don't want it to go to waste.... but I don't know what to do.

 

Hi Sloppy Zhang,

so you got a shock!

 

yes, you dissolve. What do you dissolve?

Here the question is more, what can you disolve.

How strong is your concentration? How strong is your dissolving? How strong are you (dissolving is tiring)? How big is your commitment?

 

You disssolve the feeling, the images, the sounds everything. But if you can you also dissolve the energy that is behind it. That is giving rise to it. And you make sure to go through the whole body, at least to the LTT.

 

You know when things like this happen to me those are the times where dissolving is more painful, but also more easy. There is no fog. You can feel the blockages right away. Also those are the times where I do reach the LTT through the dissolving. Other times I am going deeper, but it takes so long that I often reach only half way. Then I bring down the energy and dissolve the LTT. But when I am shaken then I dissolve all the way to the lower tan tien. Partially because I am shaken so I know I will not enjoy life if I don't dissolve. Partially because I can feel the blockages so easily.

 

And then once you reach thre LTT it is gone. Of course this is also the moment where you can go deeper, because you are shaken.

 

So yes, dissolve, dissolve dissolve.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hi Sloppy Zhang,

so you got a shock!

 

yes, you dissolve. What do you dissolve?

Here the question is more, what can you disolve.

How strong is your concentration? How strong is your dissolving? How strong are you (dissolving is tiring)? How big is your commitment?

 

You disssolve the feeling, the images, the sounds everything. But if you can you also dissolve the energy that is behind it. That is giving rise to it. And you make sure to go through the whole body, at least to the LTT.

 

You know when things like this happen to me those are the times where dissolving is more painful, but also more easy. There is no fog. You can feel the blockages right away. Also those are the times where I do reach the LTT through the dissolving. Other times I am going deeper, but it takes so long that I often reach only half way. Then I bring down the energy and dissolve the LTT. But when I am shaken then I dissolve all the way to the lower tan tien. Partially because I am shaken so I know I will not enjoy life if I don't dissolve. Partially because I can feel the blockages so easily.

 

And then once you reach thre LTT it is gone. Of course this is also the moment where you can go deeper, because you are shaken.

 

So yes, dissolve, dissolve dissolve.

 

Thanks Pietro

[Spirit Ape]

Or think how that encounter or whatever happened to you could actually benifit you?!

 

Ape

[freeform]

Might sound weird, but congratulations!

 

My advice - and I used this metaphor before - and I have found it quite helpful:

 

Imagine getting to your home one day - opening the front door, walking in and discovering on your doorstep a beautifully wrapped present right there on the floor. It's got a bright shiny bow, colourful, sparkly wrapping paper and a little note saying "For Sloppy Zhang".

 

By the way - pay attention to the feeling of your feet on the floor and your butt on the chair as you read on.

 

Now imagine you've been on a vacation... for years... decades even... and as you come up to the front door of your home, you insert the key, turn it and try to push the door open, but you can feel an obstruction! you manage to push it just enough to be able to peer in... So you do, and you notice that the house is so full of nicely wrapped gifts that it's almost impossible to get in!

 

This is the situation most people are in...

 

What you have managed to do is take out and unwrap enough of these gifts that you are able to get in through the door and are now unwrapping more and more as you get deeper and deeper into your home.

 

All the gifts are books. They're filled with elaborate stories. All about you and your life. Some of them are great! You love reading them over and over and over again, coz the stories make you feel good - secure, comfortable, content.

 

Many people get stuck reading the same 5 or 6 books over and over, stuck in the hallway, unable to get deeper into their home. But that doesn't concern them, coz the stories in the books keep them occupied, so it's fine...

 

You on the other hand, you want to get home - I mean really get in there, not just the front porch or the hallway, but all the way in - deep inside your home, where there is a fireplace, with a gentle fire burning keeping your home warm for you. And you don't want to be there temporarily, you don't want to wade through a bunch of nicely wrapped presents and unwrapped books to be able to get to the fire in the centre. You want to have a clear, effortless way in there and out of there, unobstructed and easy to navigate.

 

So you've started going through all the presents, unwrapping them, reading some of the books, throwing some out, filing some for later, placing the ones you really like on the mantelpiece... and now you've come across a book that frightens you!

 

You've unwrapped it, peeked inside the book and it really scares you - you've not come across books like this before, so you have no idea what to do with it! It's a book about you, but the story makes you feel uncomfortable...

 

So this is what I suggest.

 

Take the book and feel it in your hands. Feel the weight of it. Feel the texture of the cover. Hit yourself with it. Throw it on the floor and listen to the sound it makes. Prop a wobbly table leg with the book. Stand on it. Hit it. Throw it against the wall. Feel all the ways that your body can make use of this book. Feel how your body responds to it. The story inside is inconsequential - it's only a story - the physicality of the book is far more important!

 

Once you've allowed your body to experience the physicality of it fully, in every way possible, take this book... make your way to the fireplace in the centre of your home and throw it in... let the book be the fuel that warms your home!

 

Now go back, collect all the other books that you've unwrapped and do the same thing - let your body respond to the physicality of it. Then, no matter how much you like or dislike the story, take the book and throw it into the fire. Let the heat created spread throughout your home.

 

Every present needs to be unwrapped, every book needs to be felt by your body and if you want to live comfortably in your home, and maybe even think of enlightenment some day, you need to let go of each and every book, no matter how scary, how comforting, how blissful, how tragic - it all needs to be let go of. And you're in the process of doing that now. You're free to read the books if you want, but don't get stuck in the story... it's of no consequence... the best thing about the story is its entertainment value.

 

So feel your butt on the chair again.

 

You come up to your front door, open it and find another beautifully wrapped gift there in front of you. What will you do?

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Might sound weird, but congratulations!

 

My advice - and I used this metaphor before - and I have found it quite helpful:

 

Thanks freeform, and that was an excellent mentaphor!

[Marblehead]

Hi Sloppy Zhang,

 

When I was in that state someone suggested that I read "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron.

 

I was a great help to me.

 

Be well!

[longrhythm]

Really beautiful imagery.

 

Might sound weird, but congratulations!

 

My advice - and I used this metaphor before - and I have found it quite helpful:

 

Imagine getting to your home one day - opening the front door, walking in and discovering on your doorstep a beautifully wrapped present right there on the floor. It's got a bright shiny bow, colourful, sparkly wrapping paper and a little note saying "For Sloppy Zhang".

 

By the way - pay attention to the feeling of your feet on the floor and your butt on the chair as you read on.

 

Now imagine you've been on a vacation... for years... decades even... and as you come up to the front door of your home, you insert the key, turn it and try to push the door open, but you can feel an obstruction! you manage to push it just enough to be able to peer in... So you do, and you notice that the house is so full of nicely wrapped gifts that it's almost impossible to get in!

 

This is the situation most people are in...

 

What you have managed to do is take out and unwrap enough of these gifts that you are able to get in through the door and are now unwrapping more and more as you get deeper and deeper into your home.

 

All the gifts are books. They're filled with elaborate stories. All about you and your life. Some of them are great! You love reading them over and over and over again, coz the stories make you feel good - secure, comfortable, content.

 

Many people get stuck reading the same 5 or 6 books over and over, stuck in the hallway, unable to get deeper into their home. But that doesn't concern them, coz the stories in the books keep them occupied, so it's fine...

 

You on the other hand, you want to get home - I mean really get in there, not just the front porch or the hallway, but all the way in - deep inside your home, where there is a fireplace, with a gentle fire burning keeping your home warm for you. And you don't want to be there temporarily, you don't want to wade through a bunch of nicely wrapped presents and unwrapped books to be able to get to the fire in the centre. You want to have a clear, effortless way in there and out of there, unobstructed and easy to navigate.

 

So you've started going through all the presents, unwrapping them, reading some of the books, throwing some out, filing some for later, placing the ones you really like on the mantelpiece... and now you've come across a book that frightens you!

 

You've unwrapped it, peeked inside the book and it really scares you - you've not come across books like this before, so you have no idea what to do with it! It's a book about you, but the story makes you feel uncomfortable...

 

So this is what I suggest.

 

Take the book and feel it in your hands. Feel the weight of it. Feel the texture of the cover. Hit yourself with it. Throw it on the floor and listen to the sound it makes. Prop a wobbly table leg with the book. Stand on it. Hit it. Throw it against the wall. Feel all the ways that your body can make use of this book. Feel how your body responds to it. The story inside is inconsequential - it's only a story - the physicality of the book is far more important!

 

Once you've allowed your body to experience the physicality of it fully, in every way possible, take this book... make your way to the fireplace in the centre of your home and throw it in... let the book be the fuel that warms your home!

 

Now go back, collect all the other books that you've unwrapped and do the same thing - let your body respond to the physicality of it. Then, no matter how much you like or dislike the story, take the book and throw it into the fire. Let the heat created spread throughout your home.

 

Every present needs to be unwrapped, every book needs to be felt by your body and if you want to live comfortably in your home, and maybe even think of enlightenment some day, you need to let go of each and every book, no matter how scary, how comforting, how blissful, how tragic - it all needs to be let go of. And you're in the process of doing that now. You're free to read the books if you want, but don't get stuck in the story... it's of no consequence... the best thing about the story is its entertainment value.

 

So feel your butt on the chair again.

 

You come up to your front door, open it and find another beautifully wrapped gift there in front of you. What will you do?

 

[minkus]

Damn freeform, thats a clear way of explaining.

 

See how your body reacts to the book, a genius way of explaining .. that is what it is.

 

Regards, Mike

[findley]

I dont have demons-- and niether do you.

 

If you think you do-- forget about them.

 

if you cultivate the primal spirit, you will soon find your identity shifting away from your body and mind, where the illusion of demons exists.

 

whatever you do dont pay 'them' any attention; simply cultivate the light.

 

(or maybe this is exactly why i am such a meany !)

 

[CarsonZi]

Hi Sloppy Zhang......

 

I would recommend reading two books.... "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie is an excellent system of Self Inquiry...you can do the process online for free here: http://www.thework.com/thework.asp .....

 

The other book I would recommend is "Dancing With Life" by Phillip Moffat.....this book is a discourse on the 4 Noble Truths and the 12 Insights surrounding them. These two books I think will help you to find ways of releasing that which you are not.

 

Love,

Carson

[Sloppy Zhang]

I dont have demons-- and niether do you.

 

If you think you do-- forget about them.

 

if you cultivate the primal spirit, you will soon find your identity shifting away from your body and mind, where the illusion of demons exists.

 

whatever you do dont pay 'them' any attention; simply cultivate the light.

 

(or maybe this is exactly why i am such a meany !)

 

 

I don't mean literal demons. I meant to use it more as a figure of speech, more like, dealing with issues that you have, negative aspects of yourself, not an entity from without, more like a manifestation of what you hold within. Sorry if the title was misleading

 

Hi Sloppy Zhang......

 

I would recommend reading two books.... "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie is an excellent system of Self Inquiry...you can do the process online for free here: http://www.thework.com/thework.asp .....

 

The other book I would recommend is "Dancing With Life" by Phillip Moffat.....this book is a discourse on the 4 Noble Truths and the 12 Insights surrounding them. These two books I think will help you to find ways of releasing that which you are not.

 

Love,

Carson

 

Thanks, I will look into those

[dwai]

So today I came into close and personal contact with aspects of myself that were really not very pleasant. I mean, like, seriously, I'm very shaken. Tried to go back to sleep, but couldn't, turned on all the lights, now I'm listening to music and stuff.

 

Anyway, was wondering how you really deal with stuff that comes up over the course of cultivation? Like you always hear people say, "this will turn up deep stuff from within you, and it won't be pretty." And all along I was like, "okay, well that makese sense." But now it's actually HAPPENED, and I'd really like to know how you deal with something like this, now that it's come up?

 

At first I was pretty shaken, like I said, (even still am a bit ) but then I started wondering how I really "deal" with it. Dissolve? (I do mostly B.K. Frantzis' method) What do I dissolve, the images, the feelings, everything? Or do I accept it as part of myself, that there's negative and potential for bad in me just like with everyone else? Do I try and overcome it, or accept it? Both? Find a way to transmute it?

 

Even though I'm using some happy emotes, I'm still pretty scared, and probably not going back to sleep tonight, even though I've got a full day of work tomorrow (or.... today )

 

The thing is, I think this is my first real "break", "first encounter" with something that I can really work it, and I wanna make it count, I don't want it to go to waste.... but I don't know what to do.

 

I've been dealing with this as well...it is very hard. For me, it took a long time to realize that the "negative" stuff is simply crap that needs to be dealt with and resolved. Especially the emotional/psychological stuff. I pushed it under the proverbial carpet and it kept coming back with a vengeance.

 

The trick is to be detached from it...hard to do, but can be done. It's still around, but not so much in control as it used to be. I guess it'll take time getting resolved.

 

The problem is that we start developing these habits (samskaras as they are called in yogic terms) with even seemingly benign activities. It takes a lot of compassion and discipline to deal with them.

 

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

Cheers...

 

Might sound weird, but congratulations!

 

My advice - and I used this metaphor before - and I have found it quite helpful:

 

Imagine getting to your home one day - opening the front door, walking in and discovering on your doorstep a beautifully wrapped present right there on the floor. It's got a bright shiny bow, colourful, sparkly wrapping paper and a little note saying "For Sloppy Zhang".

 

By the way - pay attention to the feeling of your feet on the floor and your butt on the chair as you read on.

 

Now imagine you've been on a vacation... for years... decades even... and as you come up to the front door of your home, you insert the key, turn it and try to push the door open, but you can feel an obstruction! you manage to push it just enough to be able to peer in... So you do, and you notice that the house is so full of nicely wrapped gifts that it's almost impossible to get in!

 

This is the situation most people are in...

 

What you have managed to do is take out and unwrap enough of these gifts that you are able to get in through the door and are now unwrapping more and more as you get deeper and deeper into your home.

 

All the gifts are books. They're filled with elaborate stories. All about you and your life. Some of them are great! You love reading them over and over and over again, coz the stories make you feel good - secure, comfortable, content.

 

Many people get stuck reading the same 5 or 6 books over and over, stuck in the hallway, unable to get deeper into their home. But that doesn't concern them, coz the stories in the books keep them occupied, so it's fine...

 

You on the other hand, you want to get home - I mean really get in there, not just the front porch or the hallway, but all the way in - deep inside your home, where there is a fireplace, with a gentle fire burning keeping your home warm for you. And you don't want to be there temporarily, you don't want to wade through a bunch of nicely wrapped presents and unwrapped books to be able to get to the fire in the centre. You want to have a clear, effortless way in there and out of there, unobstructed and easy to navigate.

 

So you've started going through all the presents, unwrapping them, reading some of the books, throwing some out, filing some for later, placing the ones you really like on the mantelpiece... and now you've come across a book that frightens you!

 

You've unwrapped it, peeked inside the book and it really scares you - you've not come across books like this before, so you have no idea what to do with it! It's a book about you, but the story makes you feel uncomfortable...

 

So this is what I suggest.

 

Take the book and feel it in your hands. Feel the weight of it. Feel the texture of the cover. Hit yourself with it. Throw it on the floor and listen to the sound it makes. Prop a wobbly table leg with the book. Stand on it. Hit it. Throw it against the wall. Feel all the ways that your body can make use of this book. Feel how your body responds to it. The story inside is inconsequential - it's only a story - the physicality of the book is far more important!

 

Once you've allowed your body to experience the physicality of it fully, in every way possible, take this book... make your way to the fireplace in the centre of your home and throw it in... let the book be the fuel that warms your home!

 

Now go back, collect all the other books that you've unwrapped and do the same thing - let your body respond to the physicality of it. Then, no matter how much you like or dislike the story, take the book and throw it into the fire. Let the heat created spread throughout your home.

 

Every present needs to be unwrapped, every book needs to be felt by your body and if you want to live comfortably in your home, and maybe even think of enlightenment some day, you need to let go of each and every book, no matter how scary, how comforting, how blissful, how tragic - it all needs to be let go of. And you're in the process of doing that now. You're free to read the books if you want, but don't get stuck in the story... it's of no consequence... the best thing about the story is its entertainment value.

 

So feel your butt on the chair again.

 

You come up to your front door, open it and find another beautifully wrapped gift there in front of you. What will you do?

 

 

very poignant...thanks

[October Gray]

When I come across things like this I simply accept it, take it in as a learning experience, and note once again that the world is filled with both good and evil, and I am no acception. Still, if I feel the need, I will do what I can to make myself a better person.

[Birch]

If it may reassure you, I am also a nasty piece of work;-) Well, not ALL of me, but there are bits in there that you wouldn't want to mess with on a dark night;-) Growl;-)

 

If it's coming up for house-cleaning, I would say jump on the opportunity! Imagine how many people never get the chance to do it.

 

I liked some of the suggestions for methods. Especially the book one.

 

My only suggestion to add is to be careful with suppressive techniques (I don't think dissolving is, but I'd need to go back to the book and check) and aim for integration - in the book example the fire is still in your house, and that's a good thing.

 

I know it's scary.

 

Good points made about the energy it takes to do all this. Support yourself with all the usual things (good diet, water, exercise, rest, sleep, friends and fun) and maybe have a look at other types of bodywork. Many of the TTB's are experts in these things.

 

 

Take care,

 

Kate

[findley]

Oh-- I understood the metyaphor, and dig it.

(I dont like the idea of responding to a thread without reading it's conent.)

 

-And I think my assertions stand, still In my opinion, anyways.

 

many systems encourage one to embrace, deal, or otherwise place some sort of misguided significance in dealing with psychological issues. I think that such is unnecesessary-- and one even runs the risk of 'empowering' one's demons, but giving them any attention at all.

 

Overcome the psychology, (ie what isl called 'buddha-nature', I call the 'light' or 'primal spirit',) and oneovercomes any intricate details of that psychology that would otherwise cause greater harm.

 

I guess this is a more 'direct enlightenment', or even 'zen' kind of approach to the 'problem'.

[Aetherous]

You'll get used to it. Nothing you can do.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Oh-- I understood the metyaphor, and dig it.

(I dont like the idea of responding to a thread without reading it's conent.)

 

-And I think my assertions stand, still In my opinion, anyways.

 

Oh yeah, I like what you said

 

Just for other people reading it or something, it might have caused some confusion

[markern]

Shinzen youngs breakthrough difficult emotions should be sperb for this.

[Pietro]

My only suggestion to add is to be careful with suppressive techniques (I don't think dissolving is, but I'd need to go back to the book and check)

 

Hi Kate,

yes Dissolving is not a suppression form.

 

You bring attention to the blockage, and by bringing attention to it it often opens up. YOu don't open it up. You don't compress it . You just are open to the fact that it can open up. Essentially when it opens up you live fully what is inside. Whatever is that you have been trying to suppress you live it fully for a few, terrible, seconds. And then it's gone.

 

It is a bit more complex than this, as often people tend to remain attached to their suffering, so they recall it.

 

Also blockages come one after the other. So behind this blockage there is often another that was generating this. So unless you manage to dissolve the whole of it, in all your bodies, you can still re-experience it. Matter of fact, in my experience, it's like cutting weeds. Eventually you reach the root of it, and when you dissolve that all is gone. But even if you do not do that, you still have cleared out a lot. And next time you will start from a better place. But to make sure this happens, you need to keep on dissolving until the LDD, or at least bring all the energy to the LDD at the end, and then dissolve the lower dan dien.

 

NOTE although those seemed a descitption on how to do the dissolving, they are not. Important pieces are missing. Please refer to Bruce Frantzis material to get all the instructions. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Wayfarer64]

This is a very interesting topic.

 

It seems that we each have "demons" -or attributes that make us uncomfortible within ourselves. Confucious was said to have been made uncomfortible when receiving - Grace -the 20th (-I think I remember it)...hexagram of the Yi Jing... He was concerned that his teachings had form without content...

 

Any given insight into ourselves may trouble us. Understanding just what it is that we are - is a trying & difficult and often even a dangerous process that has no easy way thru or single way for all...

 

You are not ONLY that which disturbs you. There are counter-balances within you that mitigate the quality that irks and scares and threatens yr view of yr self... So keep searching and find the right balance FOR YOU-

 

 

It will be different from anyone elses' and a new way to be will manifest from the insights you glean...

 

I am often hard on folks, even those I love. I do not mean them harm - I just have little patience for foolishness or waste or hubris.... Not in them or myself -

 

stay with the long hard looking -it ain't pretty- but rocking that boat, (making waves within yr self ) can wash-up many a good clean insight onto the shores of yr consciousness...some may be flotsom -but there will be gems to treasure too...

 

love & peace to all-Pat

[-O-]

These links might be helpful.

 

 

 

Kunlun Follow up 571

 

 

 

Kunlun Follow up 566

 

 

 

Kunlun Follow up 534

[Birch]

Thanks Pietro for the dissolving reference.

 

Aside from helping oneself become more at ease with all of what we are as one goes through life*, I really do believe there is a cumulative benefit from doing this type of work that helps towards one becoming more consciously responsible for one's thoughts and actions. Also to let others' thoughts and actions be in their right place.

 

I think Scott said something interesting, that it never stops. So you might as well learn to navigate it the best you can.

 

Hopefully having read through all of this you are no longer scared;-)

 

 

Take care,

 

Kate

 

 

 

 

*- another caveat, just so we're clear, I mean the human version on this plane of relative manifestation - shucks;-) please don't come and correct me about this Buddhist friends!

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hopefully having read through all of this you are no longer scared;-)

Take care,

 

All of the posts here were very reassuring, thank you everyone

 

And I'm feeling a little bit less freaked out now. Then again, being disturbed in the dead of night, three in the morning, in a pitch black room and trying to pull it together (or dissolve it ) isn't as easy as, say, thinking it over at 3 in the afternoon in a bright and sunny day

 

Definitely TONS of good advice in this thread though, I took something from every post, again, thank you all anyone feel free to keep responding, of course.

[Mal]

Then again, being disturbed in the dead of night, three in the morning, in a pitch black room and trying to pull it together (or dissolve it ) isn't as easy as, say, thinking it over at 3 in the afternoon in a bright and sunny day

 

Things always look better in the light