Zhan Zhuang, Ma Bu (horse stance) practioners? Flexibility from practice.

[Magitek]

Hello,

 

Is Ma Bu (horse stance) part of Zhan Zhuang?

 

Please tell me Zhan Zhuang practitioners what you have gained? I guess it is great for grounding since it allows you to channel the energy down into the ground through the legs.

 

I've been playing around with standing meditation with a squat, keeping my spine is straight alignement and letting body sink down as if my legs were one of those springy computer chairs...... It seems I can make the energy run down my body, and then my legs seem to shake, bounce and open. It seems beneficial. It is like I am holding my body upright yet I am far more relaxed (in my upper body at least) then I would be if I was lying.

 

Has anyone developed good leg flexibility through zhan zhuang or the horse stance?

 

If you do horse stance how long can you hold it? I'm not even doing full horse stance and 5 minutes feels like a long time!!

 

It feels like just standing could open the legs but a squat seems to emphasis it.

 

I need to gain flexiblity, it is clear that is the next thing to do. Once I have my flexiblity I will have my full-lotus.

 

The theory is that I will keep getting lower and lower in the squat while being able to ground myself. Eventually I will be grounded in a lotus. Then that will be the seat of my awakening.

 

I never got on well with traditional stretching methods as I believe it is more about opening the leg channels. Since the muscles are already long enough, I just think of the tension as mental. If you look at animals they are all like contortionists yet they stretch naturally and for only a few minutes if that.

 

People stretch for years and years and still have the same leg flexiblity. Whats more they often injure their legs.

 

I do not think it will work. I need another way. I think the other way might be by running the energy down the body and into the ground through the legs.

 

I remember speaking to one qigong practitioner once and he said after a retreat his legs were like rubber and he suprised himself and his coach when stretching at some sports club..... That was with NO STRETCHING.

 

I want your thought and experiences. Especially if you are doing Ma Bu (Horse Stance) I want to know the specifics. How long you hold it. Whether you treat it as a meditation or just conditioning. Energetic effects (if you percieve them), the effect it has had on your body, even the effect it has had on your overall life .etc .etc. I am INTERESTED.

 

Remember I want to hear insight, experiences... Please don't point me to Pavel Tsatsouline, Thomas Kurz, Bob Kooley or someone else in the fitness business. Real meat and bones stuff. Anyone?

 

Or even if you just like my idea let me know.

 

Thank you very much.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Qi must flow through the legs in order to maintain the full-lotus comfortably for a long time.

 

I suggest learning how to channel the sexual energy, sublimate it and run it through the macrocosmic orbit of the body. When the body becomes full, your hips (more important than the legs doing full-lotus), will re align during the standing postures.

 

Also, make sure you leave the kua open and breathe throughout the whole body.

 

Hope it helps!

[h.uriahr]

Xing Shen Zhuan has great exercises to open you up. It's a great a way to get ready for your sitting practice.

[joeblast]

Real meat and bones stuff? Too many orgasms makes lotus damn near impossible. Find and familiarize yourself with your psoas. Do opening and closing hip exercises, the foot in elbow cradle. and keep doing zz & ma bu. and dont treat full lotus like a silver bullet

[Magitek]

h.uriahr, can you recommend a book that will tell me about Xing Shen Zhuan? Or some other material

 

Lucky7Strikes, what is the kua?

 

joeblast, I am sick of my tsaos lol. I would happily never have an orgasm again for a taste of that sweet lotus . What do you mean"opening and closing" hip exercises? I know the elbow cradle. Once I get full lotus, I will decide whether its my silver (or gold or platinum!) bullet

[joeblast]

you're funny, man. hopefully you're just being so about all of this dont build things up in your head, it will only lead to disappointment - you can imagine things both greater and lesser than what reality can provide, so it is important to keep a proper perspective.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Think of zhan zhuang as a way to use your body and mind, it can be done in any posture you like. I practice Zhan Zhuang in the horse stance daily. I treat it as a meditation and combat conditioning(mental/physical). I usually hold it for 3 minutes, hips close just above/around knee level, which is about when I start falling backwards. Then I rest about 10-20secs and the hold it for another minute and 30 seconds. This goes on, and can continue for only 5 minutes, sometimes 15. The fact is, you can stand in horse stance for an hour no matter who you are, it's just a matter of the spirit and determination you have.

 

I want your thought and experiences. Especially if you are doing Ma Bu (Horse Stance) I want to know the specifics. How long you hold it. Whether you treat it as a meditation or just conditioning. Energetic effects (if you percieve them), the effect it has had on your body, even the effect it has had on your overall life .etc .etc. I am INTERESTED.

 

Physically I've gained greater fluidity, coordination, whole-body harmony, strength and power, and speed.

 

Mentally I've gained greater peace, calmness, awareness, and focusing ability.

 

Energetically I've gained inner awareness.... example: most of my life I have had a lot of splitting headaches, since standing practice in the horse stance I've been able to feel the force that is creating these headaches, it builds up where my neck meets my skull. By proper practice I've learned how to coax and guide the relief and movement of the built up force into my lower core/lower body where it is harmless. I suppose this is energetic, but I believe it is largely fascial tissue related as well.

 

My state of being is firmly planted on the ground with a sense of security when I practice diligently. A good foundation for cultivating inner peace.

 

My leg flexibility has increased, but I also stretch traditionally a la martial arts. From the horse stance, immediate effects are increased mobility.

 

The shaking and relaxation is key. Shaking wakes up your nerves. Relaxation gives good flow. One thing that I believe to be essential, and that many traditions do not teach, is exactly what to do with your mind while in your posture... If you were in a one-hundred yard dash, you would be in your starting position, keeping your body and muscles ready to rocket off the starting point. While waiting to bolt, you are mentally focused on waiting for the starting gun to go off too. THIS is the state of being you want your mind and body to be in. Actively focused on your surroundings, actively waiting to act on something to happen, and actively keeping the body ready to move. All while staying relaxed. Practicing this trains your mind to have focusing control which has proven to me to be essential in keeping an emptied but highly aware mind throughout the day.

 

Being empty and aware all day = balancing energy and heightening consciousness.

 

Note: This way of being within standing practice is from I-Chuan. I can refer you to some good resources to read if you are interested further.

[Magitek]

Thank you very much.

 

I would be interested in that book.

 

You say focused on your outside surrounding.... So you do eye-open? Sorry I am clueless on Zhan Zhuang, all I know is that it is "standing post" meditation. I do the drooping eyelids, both eyes set on the bridge of the nose, the trick given in the Secret Of The Golden Flower. I think "setting the plum line" is a neat trick but if its better eye-open I'll do that. Also something I am doing is is to rise my head to the sky, straightening my spine as much as it does, tucking my chin back, and looking slightly downwards. If you have a cat sometimes they do a stretch that is a bit like that.

 

I don't know if that is artificial, but I have heard simmilar recomendations for sitting and it seems to be opening a channel in my neck, which is where I store a lot painful tension which is most concentrated on the rear side of my brain. It is like someone has shot an arrow into the back of my brain. When I do this spine trick the energy can trickle down a little as if i'd straightened a hose.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Also something I am doing is is to rise my head to the sky, straightening my spine as much as it does, tucking my chin back, and looking slightly downwards. If you have a cat sometimes they do a stretch that is a bit like that.

 

I was taught the same. Lifting the head with no tension.

 

A very good article that I recommend is called "Zhan Zhuang From An I-Chuan Perspective" by Sifu Gregory Fong in Portland, Oregon. I'd say that this is a really really good article on understanding standing practice on a physical and fundamental level. Even though he speaks with the language of science and experience, the energy of traditional zhan zhuang is still there. In this article you can see how easy it is to learn the ins and outs of standing using everyday language, so that is the way he teaches it in this article. Note his background, it is very traditional.

 

This article and some of his others are here.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Kameel]

Easy full lotus = Rodney Yee Advanced Yoga 25 min Hip section DVD (Iyengar Tradition)

John Friend Anusara Yoga: Growing A Lotus DVD (Tantra Based)

Paul Grilley Yin Yoga (Book or DVD) (Taoist Yoga based- Pauline Zink, also has good DVD's, but not best for Lotus)

 

If still difficult - Structural Integration (Rolfing, Hellerwork, KMI, Postural Integration, Zen Bodytherapy, CORE, Soma,etc) work with someone willing to put you in the posture (or as close as possible) and lenghthen the fascial restrictions.

Good Luck.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Kameel