What is the essence of spirituality?

[thelerner]

I'm writing some essays on the Examined Life. Mental, physical, emotional aspects are explainable and measurable. Spirituality is another matter, I know it when I see it, but how can it be measured? It probably has to be broken down into smaller components.

 

How do you go beyond nebulous terms into concrete steps?

 

For example; is an aspect of spirituality Trust in the Universe/god (TUG)? Is lack of anxiety a measure of it? Is optimism?

Is a quiet mind an important key? If so how would you measure it?

 

Any thoughts.

 

 

Michael

[Marblehead]

Hi Thelerner,

 

Very good and interesting questions.

 

I think that spirituality has to do more with the sense that one has commonality with all else. I don't think that it has to be only TUG related. That is, it is my understanding that one can attain a healthy spirituality through religion or through science (observation).

 

The concept of being a part of something greater (as opposed to being alone) is, in my mind, a key to spirituality.

 

I also think that being at peace with one's Self is attained through spirituality.

 

Be well!

[CarsonZi]

I think what you are trying to do here is difficult....

 

From my perspective spirituality is individual...when you try to define spirituality it becomes "religion" or "ritual".

 

That said, anything to anyone can be "spiritual". One person may find just sitting alone in a dark room spiritual....another may need to go to church and sing praises to "God". Another may find eating feces or drinking piss spiritual. I think the "steps" one takes to get closer to what I call the "Ultimate Creator" (which may be what some others term God/Love/Tao/Source/Intelligent Infinity) will be at least slightly different for each person. What is "needed" for one person to connect to the Ultimate Creator will not necessarily be needed for another to do the same.

 

That's my perception of this anyways.

 

Love,

Carson

Edited July 30, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Vajrahridaya]

Nice questions.

 

Since we Buddhists don't see that the universe has an ultimate creator, or a supreme source. We aim to raise our interconnectivity intelligence. We are all in the same boat, as in suffering is a common theme. We suffer for the sake of pleasure then when pleasure is over we look for other ways to fill the void. We all crave satisfaction. So, when we Buddhists see that we are all suffering and we feel interconnected, compassion is raised and we wish to free others from suffering, and so we do this through meditating on the nature of reality.

 

We loose selfishness and we start asking the big questions surrounding, "what is this?".

 

We start seeing through the superfluous and experiencing deeper states of peace by letting go of what weighed us down and concerned our minds in petty ways.

 

We stop projecting onto others our problems and we start seeing more objectively.

 

So yes, peace and a clear sense of mind. Not necessarily without thought, but free from the thoughts that roam in the mind and also a better sense of utilizing the power of thought because we see how interconnectivity happens on deeply subtle ways, so we flow better in a wholistic way.

[Applecart]

I really want to give my input because it's such an interesting subject, "what is spirituality?".

I've often thought that everything is spiritual because I look at spirituality as something rising and consuming everything, an inevitable fate. Maybe the question in the future will be "what isn't spiritual?"

 

Maybe a good way to measure spirituality would be whatever quiets your mind? I think many buddhists and zen practitioners would agree with this.

I wanted to go on with ideas, however, I feel good on this point.

 

I'll look forward to more input

[Taiji Bum]

Maybe look at both physical development and mental development and then try to see any patterns in them to extrapolate a pattern for spiritual development? I know in sacred geometry this is done with what is commonly called the tree of life. Not sure how you could measure a person though. You can measure physical development with physical tests such as a measuring tape or medical tests. You can measure psychological development with written psychological tests and by a trained observer looking at a persons life. I imagine since a 3 year old isn't physically mature they would fail a psychological maturity test so maybe it goes the same with a spiritual maturity. For true spirituality development to begin maybe you need both physical and mental health and maturity? That would be a good start I think. But if you use physical tests to test physical development, and psychological tests to test psychological development then it stands to reason you need spiritual tests to test spiritual development?

 

The only concrete testing would be the physical one. Psychological testing is trickier and I imagine spiritual testing is likewise even more refined and difficult, but probably not impossible.

[thelerner]

Thanks for the input, I'm still pondering an imperfect Spirituality measurement method. That reminds me, I think I have a free download of Bodri's book by a similar tittle. As usual I'm less focused on enlightenment and more on not kicking the dog.

 

A simple measuring system. Its easy w/ physical health, even w/ mental can be done. Spiritual..hmnn. Ultimately I'm looking for a check list type system (shallow I know).

 

Aspects of spirtuality.

 

Quiet mind. sorta measurable and a quiet mind is the root practice, even when its only experienced between actions.

tic marks for quiet focus. 5 minutes, 10? 30? Not necessarily meditation, but focus on one thing.

 

Kindnesses measurable. Within kindness there is connection, less self.

 

Separation the opposite of kindness, tic marks for strong negative thoughts and judgments. If it just any negative thought it'd fill up too fast.

 

I'm looking for a tri folded piece, a paper wallet, which is used to track a persons life. If its involves too much writing, it'll be a burden, slow people down too much. Really, for food, isn't it really healthy meal or unhealthy. Maybe a simple number from 1 to 10 instead of writing down everything you eat. A simple system will still show improvements.

 

I have a couple of time productivity trifold papers that are useful, but I'd like to take the concept deeper. Beyond time management into a tool for awareness.

 

Too bad I'm so lazy.

 

Michael

 

Below might be a link to the todo wallet I made. Its an early version.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?act=At...post&id=176

 

 

Spirituality

 

Physical-

breath slow deep

muscle tension- relaxed

[Taiji Bum]

Too bad this isn't real....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascendometer#...endometer.22.29

"Ascendometer": An Ancient device used to measure a person's synaptic activity. Designed to work alongside the DNA Resequencer, the scanner analyzes a subject's current physiological status and feeds the information back into the resequencer. It was able to locate the areas of the brain that were used for advanced abilities such as telekinesis, and was apparently used by the Ancients during their pursuit of Ascension. One of the scanners was discovered in the lab where Anubis created and experimented on Khalek, a clone created by Anubis using his pre-ascension DNA. After the SGC brought Khalek back to Earth for study, the scanner was brought with them and used to monitor his development. The device was nicknamed "ascendometer" by Colonel Mitchell.[69] The device was later sent to Atlantis and used on Rodney McKay after he accidentally manipulated his own DNA.[77]

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm writing some essays on the Examined Life. Mental, physical, emotional aspects are explainable and measurable. Spirituality is another matter, I know it when I see it, but how can it be measured? It probably has to be broken down into smaller components.

 

How do you go beyond nebulous terms into concrete steps?

 

For example; is an aspect of spirituality Trust in the Universe/god (TUG)? Is lack of anxiety a measure of it? Is optimism?

Is a quiet mind an important key? If so how would you measure it?

 

Any thoughts.

Michael

 

Spirituality is like pornography, you know it when you see it, and it can be enjoyed alone or with others

 

On a less humorous note, I really can't tell you how to "track" it or "measure" it. You can always talk about siddhis and signs that you have become spiritual, like spontaneous levitating, reading peoples' minds, walking on water, etc etc

 

Okay that was sort of humorous too. In Franz Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics book, he breaks down development into spheres, Mental, Astral, and Physical, and each of those have certain "steps". Part of the Astral steps is balance. Observing your emotions, find out what side of the spectrum you are (or are not), and then transmuting those into positive aspects (though you sometimes have to tone down "too positive" aspects).

 

But again you run into the problem of that somehow applying to everyone. Even though there is a "checklist" system with Bardon's material, each checklist is special to the individual. So we all use checklists but none of them are the same.

[thelerner]

The most powerful thing will always be the human mind, or what I'm aiming at is a slip of paper. We can accomplish so much, but we're unfocused, we forget, the world is siren's call, beckoning us to cruise the net and have a beer.

 

Lots of paper. I'm imagining a loose leaf binder. There's a life time mission statement. Big goals w/ whys, whens and steps. Monthly goals, then daily sheets that are used and put back. Maybe some review mechanisms. Sheets that easily trace your mindset and accomplishments. For one month living an Examined life.

 

Michael

 

 

Bardon's steps and there accompanying self analysis is excellent. I work with it on and off, but I don't think I'll finish it in this lifetime, but you never know.

[Sloppy Zhang]

The most powerful thing will always be the human mind, or what I'm aiming at is a slip of paper. We can accomplish so much, but we're unfocused, we forget, the world is siren's call, beckoning us to cruise the net and have a beer.

 

Lots of paper. I'm imagining a loose leaf binder. There's a life time mission statement. Big goals w/ whys, whens and steps. Monthly goals, then daily sheets that are used and put back. Maybe some review mechanisms. Sheets that easily trace your mindset and accomplishments. For one month living an Examined life.

 

Michael

 

Actually, I just started to keep a journal of my thoughts/musings/methods a couple of days ago. I write down references and stuff that I find interesting.

 

At first I didn't think keeping a journal would be that useful, because things are always changing, but I've been reading a lot recently and I've had lots of new ideas/realizations, more often than I'd usually have over the course of a school semester (other stuff on my mind ) and I figured "hey, I better write this down!"

 

But it's a spiral notebook, not a loose leaf binder

[thelerner]

Journaling is great, but I'm thinking of a piece of paper that stays with you all day. Trifold then in half to make a walletlike piece of paper. You're not recording thoughts or writing notes as much as tic marking states and actions. Measuring what you're doing.

 

One type of engineering is the civil engineer. The first part of there job is watching, finding out what the key elements of a system are then taking it apart. Tim Ferriss of the 4 hour workweek and blog is famous for this. I also like the design work of David Seah.

 

Are we so busy living we don't take the time to see what we're really doing. Control starts with measurement.

 

 

Michael

[Sloppy Zhang]

Journaling is great, but I'm thinking of a piece of paper that stays with you all day. Trifold then in half to make a walletlike piece of paper. You're not recording thoughts or writing notes as much as tic marking states and actions. Measuring what you're doing.

 

One type of engineering is the civil engineer. The first part of there job is watching, finding out what the key elements of a system are then taking it apart. Tim Ferriss of the 4 hour workweek and blog is famous for this. I also like the design work of David Seah.

 

Are we so busy living we don't take the time to see what we're really doing. Control starts with measurement.

Michael

 

Well when I'm in school, for example, I've got pieces of paper all over the place that I jot down things I take notice of.

 

When I'm on TTB and read something I like, I write it down on a sticky note, and at the end of the day write an entry or whatever about it.

 

For Franz Bardon's system, yeah, keeping a piece of paper with you all day that you mark stuff out would work too. Like if you were trying to keep track of, say, when you get angry and yell at people, each time you yell at someone you make a tick mark. Then each time you feel like yelling at someone you make a tick mark, and over time this helps you realize what kind of situations that you get in when you yell at people, and that helps you change.

 

Of course, you can find a way to measure different things. But, again, it's up to the individual on what and how to measure, no way I can think of something uniform that'd work for everyone across the board.

[tianshixian]

I'm writing some essays on the Examined Life. Mental, physical, emotional aspects are explainable and measurable. Spirituality is another matter, I know it when I see it, but how can it be measured? It probably has to be broken down into smaller components.

 

How do you go beyond nebulous terms into concrete steps?

 

For example; is an aspect of spirituality Trust in the Universe/god (TUG)? Is lack of anxiety a measure of it? Is optimism?

Is a quiet mind an important key? If so how would you measure it?

 

Any thoughts.

Michael

 

It doesn't have to be quiet, but to listen well it helps.

 

self-silence is at the beginning. For all else seek the Yi Jing, Dao De Jing, Nei Jing, and Lotus Sutra. I recommend some physical activity to balance out the mental side... I've noticed few intellectuals proceed very far into actualization, probably becuase the mind doesn't make it happen after all... the emotional body does.

 

Give me a student who is willing to shut up, work out, and learn discipline I'll train him/her in enlightenment as easy as it is to turn my hand over.

 

Enlightenment, like spirituality is as easy as 1,2,3... but since that's the real start, don't celebrate it too much. There's a whole mountain once upon the path. But alas it's a vast dark forest around Mount Tai.

[Marblehead]

Enlightenment, like spirituality is as easy as 1,2,3... but since that's the real start, don't celebrate it too much. There's a whole mountain once upon the path. But alas it's a vast dark forest around Mount Tai.

 

Reminded me of the words: "First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is."

 

Be well!

[sasblamthanb]

[thelerner]

It doesn't have to be quiet, but to listen well it helps.

 

self-silence is at the beginning. For all else seek the Yi Jing, Dao De Jing, Nei Jing, and Lotus Sutra. I recommend some physical activity to balance out the mental side... I've noticed few intellectuals proceed very far into actualization, probably becuase the mind doesn't make it happen after all... the emotional body does.

 

Give me a student who is willing to shut up, work out, and learn discipline I'll train him/her in enlightenment as easy as it is to turn my hand over.

 

Enlightenment, like spirituality is as easy as 1,2,3... but since that's the real start, don't celebrate it too much. There's a whole mountain once upon the path. But alas it's a vast dark forest around Mount Tai.

 

I'm listening and I like what you say. Yet Yi & Nei Jing, Lotus Sutras are foreign to 99% of people. Is it possible to keep the concept and put them in manner or practice thats simple and trackable.

 

For example, for physical exercise I don't care what you do or how long you do it. I want to record that its been done and how you feel afterwards. I'm assuming exercise is good and relying on a person's native intelligence to decide what to do, but I want to bring focus to how it feels while doing it and afterwards. Keeping it as simple as Exercise 1-10, marked down quickly.

 

How can I quantify silence and jings?

 

Michael

[steve]

Lately it seems to me that spirituality is more or less the same as a spiritual search or path.

It arises when the mind is not satisfied with what is. It is looking for something beyond what it knows and sees every day. It postulates that there must be something above, beyond, or behind the mundane daily existence.

Something sacred, perhaps eternal.

The process of trying to understand what that is seems to be spirituality to me.