Conviction as a stage on the path

[de_paradise]

A person can be circling around the path of enlightenment, be doing things like yoga, tai chi, meditation, reading lots of spiritual titled books--and still lack the conviction that all this dreamy stuff of enlightenment and refining ones immortal consciousness is possible. I was in this situation for many years, and I look around and see many others in this place.

 

With conviction, an urgency, an amping up of intent arises, and in my case, this is where all many energetic phenomena started to become commonplace.

 

You could call this a very low level stage of the path, where "doink", you gotta be kidden' me! All this spiritual crap is real, and I've just been clowing around in some delusional body suit, why didnt someone tell me before? Oh the information has been here all the time, Ive even been reading it over and over but I just didnt see it like I do now.

 

How do things like perceiving ultimate reality, tranforming oneself into pure energy, refining one's consciousness--how do these things become simple hobbies, interests, or minor sections of a bookstore?

 

You know because if you do get it, if you have conviction, know the enourmousness of the importance that dwarves any other thing you can be doing by a million jillion.....and yet some people half-half get it...but not enough to want to sever the ties that bind them to our little earth existence here...getting laid, making a career, amassing material goods...not enough to spend a few hours per day doing the best possible meditations they can find.

[Tabula Rasa]

...not enough to spend a few hours per day doing the best possible meditations they can find.

 

Do you want it enough to choose empty mindful presence (meditate) every moment of every day?

 

"Allow all mental conditions to become completely transparent, whether they appear external or internal. Do not even grasp mind with mind. Mind will then appear as a smooth wall. This alone is truly to enter the non-dual way." -- Bodhidharma, the First Patriarch of Zen

 

Desire it as much as a drowning person desires air.

Do not desire it at all.

Both are true.

 

Be Now.

[Mokona]

A person can be circling around the path of enlightenment, be doing things like yoga, tai chi, meditation, reading lots of spiritual titled books--and still lack the conviction that all this dreamy stuff of enlightenment and refining ones immortal consciousness is possible. I was in this situation for many years, and I look around and see many others in this place.

 

With conviction, an urgency, an amping up of intent arises, and in my case, this is where all many energetic phenomena started to become commonplace.

 

You could call this a very low level stage of the path, where "doink", you gotta be kidden' me! All this spiritual crap is real, and I've just been clowing around in some delusional body suit, why didnt someone tell me before? Oh the information has been here all the time, Ive even been reading it over and over but I just didnt see it like I do now.

 

How do things like perceiving ultimate reality, tranforming oneself into pure energy, refining one's consciousness--how do these things become simple hobbies, interests, or minor sections of a bookstore?

 

You know because if you do get it, if you have conviction, know the enourmousness of the importance that dwarves any other thing you can be doing by a million jillion.....and yet some people half-half get it...but not enough to want to sever the ties that bind them to our little earth existence here...getting laid, making a career, amassing material goods...not enough to spend a few hours per day doing the best possible meditations they can find.

 

Passion is good, but - balance...Balance...

 

IMO If you forget your earthly existence you will lose it before making any headway into spirituality. Although it seems the path continues in the next realm.

[Unconditioned]

Everything includes all and excludes nothing.

 

For a while I was caught in the idea of pushing away 'the world' in favor of 'what is real'. Well, the world is real too, it's all part of it.

 

It reminds me of the formula you find in the Diamond sutra that's basically: everything is, everything is not, everything is again. Hugely paraphrasing and I expect to get slapped for it

 

But practice does not always mean results and strong conviction can be just as dangerous as it is useful (think of any kind of violence, that's mostly fueled by convictions).

 

So to say this is THE way I believe can be better stated, this is A way. Some people stumble on Truth while other search and never find it.

 

It's also easy to say "this is real" when we want to believe it to be so, it's slippery ground for sure!

[de_paradise]

The gaining of strong conviction is a stage on the path of alchemical tranformation. Thats my main point. Its not just any conviction, its the conviction of what is chiseled into the walls in ancient temples of Egypt, its the conviction of the reality of the secret of the golden flower, its the truth of Kundalini, etc, etc. And when you can hold this strong conviction, in my little experience, strange and odd things can happen in a way that they might not if you were only somewhat convinced.

 

I appreciate the replies nevertheless.

[forestofemptiness]

Conviction is actually a part of the old school Buddhist path. When one attains stream entry, it is said that the Buddha's way becomes clear, the belief in the personal self has been lost, and faith in rites and rituals is gone.

 

Why all the hobbies? Maybe it is to get the message out. If they're weren't ten million screaming persons hobbying and/or profiteering on spirituality, more than likely we never would have heard about much less set foot on the path.

 

 

The gaining of strong conviction is a stage on the path of alchemical tranformation. Thats my main point. Its not just any conviction, its the conviction of what is chiseled into the walls in ancient temples of Egypt, its the conviction of the reality of the secret of the golden flower, its the truth of Kundalini, etc, etc. And when you can hold this strong conviction, in my little experience, strange and odd things can happen in a way that they might not if you were only somewhat convinced.

 

I appreciate the replies nevertheless.

[DaoChild]

A person can be circling around the path of enlightenment, be doing things like yoga, tai chi, meditation, reading lots of spiritual titled books--and still lack the conviction that all this dreamy stuff of enlightenment and refining ones immortal consciousness is possible. I was in this situation for many years, and I look around and see many others in this place.

 

With conviction, an urgency, an amping up of intent arises, and in my case, this is where all many energetic phenomena started to become commonplace.

 

You could call this a very low level stage of the path, where "doink", you gotta be kidden' me! All this spiritual crap is real, and I've just been clowing around in some delusional body suit, why didnt someone tell me before? Oh the information has been here all the time, Ive even been reading it over and over but I just didnt see it like I do now.

 

How do things like perceiving ultimate reality, tranforming oneself into pure energy, refining one's consciousness--how do these things become simple hobbies, interests, or minor sections of a bookstore?

 

You know because if you do get it, if you have conviction, know the enourmousness of the importance that dwarves any other thing you can be doing by a million jillion.....and yet some people half-half get it...but not enough to want to sever the ties that bind them to our little earth existence here...getting laid, making a career, amassing material goods...not enough to spend a few hours per day doing the best possible meditations they can find.

 

 

I love your explanation. Could you please elaborate as to what was your "aha!" moment?

 

I've been in this situation for "many years" already too -- and I'm only 22! I began meditating at age 13 after a vision, and although I've experienced things people would consider shocking, conviction, I believe, is unfortunately still the main thing I'm trying to experience.

 

Would love to hear your thoughts.

[Pranaman]

about conviction..... My old spiritual teacher told me once that changing beliefs is like putting a pig on a stick and calling it something else....

 

Her point was that enlightenment is beyond conviction and any form of belief because if you believe in something, you are still only seeing your belief... not- what is.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Pranaman