Ramon25

Water Method and Inner Smile

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Hey do you guys think that the inner dissolving water method and an advanced form of the Inner Smile our compatible? Im trying to simplify my life and stick to those along with some basic breathing exercises my main sitting meditations as opposed to dealing with way to much stuff. Has nayone used this combo and with what results?

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Hey do you guys think that the inner dissolving water method and an advanced form of the Inner Smile our compatible? Im trying to simplify my life and stick to those along with some basic breathing exercises my main sitting meditations as opposed to dealing with way to much stuff. Has nayone used this combo and with what results?

I think the inner dissolving is how the inner smile should be done properly. With no charge at all, no smile, just releasing into neutral space. I would not suggest you to do both, as they are really similar, and why should you spend time with the IS if you are also doing the ID. Instead you should do something different. Something moving, or standing. Taoists use to walk the circle or do tai ji, and then sit, and then move again, and then sit, and so on. If you want to keep few practices you should chose them well, and different.

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Yeah but the way I have learned it and the way I generally see the Inner smile practiced is completley different than the ID. You "see" the organ in the minds eye. Then you smile to it and send it love (quite different) than the ID. I am going to do one that is more adavnced aswell than the basic one. I will already be doing zhang zuang and a few other "non sitting" things. But meditative wise i see the IS and ID as to perfect opposites. But thats why I am asking cuz maybe thats just my perception and im wrong? :unsure:

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Yeah but the way I have learned it and the way I generally see the Inner smile practiced is completley different than the ID. You "see" the organ in the minds eye. Then you smile to it and send it love (quite different) than the ID. I am going to do one that is more adavnced aswell than the basic one. I will already be doing zhang zuang and a few other "non sitting" things. But meditative wise i see the IS and ID as to perfect opposites. But thats why I am asking cuz maybe thats just my perception and im wrong? :unsure:

I'd listen to Pietro. He's practiced Chia's and Frantzis' stuff for a long time.

 

IMHO, the inner smile should not be done by "sending" the smile to the organ. That's like someone that you don't like and who is mean to you coming up to you when you are in a bad mood trying to be all cheery and telling you to smile. That would just piss you off right? (It would me, maybe I am alone in this.) The point is let the natural state of your consciousness (which is blissful) connect with the organ (visualization is strictly an aid to this, nothing more), and thus bring out it's natural state, which is also blissful, so that it "smiles back". The big thing is really connecting with your awareness and your insides. This is more or less inner dissolving. Compare to the discussion in these threads:

http://www.thetaobums.com/Taoist-water-meditation-t9941.html

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=9606

 

Of course, until you can to this (very advanced stuff IMHO) maybe "push" or "send" the smile a little if that is your inclination, so you are working on the smiling part and the connection part separately. But they should come together eventually. Until they do it is "fake", which is not the Tao.

 

For the record, I suck at the inner smile and inner dissolving :o .

 

It is good you are trying to simplify your practice. You had quite a list a few days ago.

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Well thanks for the response guys! yeah I did have quite a list :) I am like that though, I will consider what people tell me and take that into account whne I make my decisions. Everyone seems to have been telling me is to simplyfy so I am. Reaally thanks to everyone. I dont know what to do though the "inner smile or ID. Well I just bought the ID book and g=have good feeling with that so iM gonna try that. Any way creation could you possibly elaborate a little more on the "inner smile". Is there any suggestion, Practice to add or consider?

I will be doing

Water method Inner dissolving

zhan zuang

Breathing exercises

Clearing stagnant energy with Accupressure/medical chi gung/ self massage/6 sounds (all used together)

lower dantien cultivation/nourishing the Qi

joint mobility

Bagua

 

Well that practice looks pretty complete to me! :)

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Well thanks for the response guys! yeah I did have quite a list :) I am like that though, I will consider what people tell me and take that into account whne I make my decisions. Everyone seems to have been telling me is to simplyfy so I am. Reaally thanks to everyone. I dont know what to do though the "inner smile or ID. Well I just bought the ID book and g=have good feeling with that so iM gonna try that. Any way creation could you possibly elaborate a little more on the "inner smile". Is there any suggestion, Practice to add or consider?

I will be doing

Water method Inner dissolving

zhan zuang

Breathing exercises

Clearing stagnant energy with Accupressure/medical chi gung/ self massage/6 sounds (all used together)

lower dantien cultivation/nourishing the Qi

joint mobility

Bagua

 

Well that practice looks pretty complete to me! :)

 

First of all I do agree that inner dissolving and Inner smile are very different. But they alse are part of very different taoist lineages. The neo taoist alchemical lineage and the water lao tzu lineage are very different. The first is trying to transform, and the second is trying to dissolve. As such you are right that they use totally different methods. But I think historically one came from the other (or as biologists would say, they both came from a common ancestor).

 

The problem is that "A taoist only rides one horse at a time"[bruce, 2001 circe, personal comunication]. You want your practice to be complete, but you don't necessarily want to have competing practices, or practices that are going through very different routes to reach the same goal. So I stated better to do the ID than the IS.

 

But now we seem to have a second problem: can you do the inner dissolving?

Because if all you got is a book then you might be having some difficulties.

 

The inner dissolving is not an easy meditation.

In the best of the possible worlds you would learn it while getting the transmission, directly from the teacher, after having done outer dissolving for 1-3 years. Which also you would have learned under a teacher supervision.

 

So here is my next question, how good are you with outer dissolving? Have you learned that at all? Because if you only have a book about that, then you have a second difficulty on top of the first.

 

And finally my last question, how much do you need now the inner dissolving? Are you right now in a terrible place where your inside are being tortured out of regret, or deep grief, or something similar? Because if you are just a happy chap who is going through life, I think you would be better for now to avoid inner dissolving, learn well the outer dissolving. By all means, play with the inner dissolving, and follow the instructions of the book, but don't invest any serious amount of time in that. And then keep an eye on Bruce courses. A 5 day course of bruce on the inner dissolving (anything that have the word meditation inside, usually will do, but do make sure they do teach the inner dissolving) is a good place to start.

 

If on the other hand you are tortured by anguish & inner demon, then you might be able to go straight to the inner dissolving (you lucky guy ;-) ) simply because your blockages are so awaken at the moment that you just can't miss them. But again, having a teacher would really help. At least look for a normal instructor next to you, and ask him to help you.

 

Actually thinking about it better, the Inner dissolving is so much deeper than the inner smile that you can compare it more to fusion than with the inner smile. But then the IS would compare with OD.

 

If you are going to go with the book way to ID, you might want to check the CD sections in Bruce website. He has some CD on taoist meditation. They are really pretty good.

 

Oh yes, next summer (2010), in Crete he is holding a teachers training on taoist breathing. That's also a good place to go.

 

Of course, until you can to this (very advanced stuff IMHO) maybe "push" or "send" the smile a little if that is your inclination, so you are working on the smiling part and the connection part separately. But they should come together eventually. Until they do it is "fake", which is not the Tao.

 

You know, what really the inner smile can relate to? What's alive and what's dead. There is this practice in the water method where you go through your body and you awaken it bit by bit by just trying to see if you can feel it. Now doing the inner smile properly, where you feel the organs, as opposed to visualise them, is bound to help you in this way. ANd this is a prerequisite before doing the more advanced stuff.

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Are you right now in a terrible place where your inside are being tortured out of regret, or deep grief, or something similar?

...

If ... you are tortured by anguish & inner demon, then you might be able to go straight to the inner dissolving (you lucky guy ;-) ) simply because your blockages are so awaken at the moment that you just can't miss them. But again, having a teacher would really help. At least look for a normal instructor next to you, and ask him to help you.

Incidentally, I am quite tortured by anguish and inner demons. Luck me indeed :lol: . Probably the main reason I like BKF's stuff so much is that it seems ideal to help me. But circumstances do not seem to permit my studying with him.

 

I asked these questions in another thread and didn't get any answer. Some you have answered already, but anything else you could share would be greatly appreciated.

I am nowhere near any Energy Arts Instructors, so a seminar with BKF seems like my best bet to get personal instruction. What seminar would you suggest for someone whose primary interest is the meditative part of the tradition? Moreover, since Frantzis charges an arm and a leg for his longer stuff do you think I could get a good grasp on this stuff from a weekend seminar, i.e. good enough to be able to go and practice on my own with the confidence that I am doing, e.g. dissolving correctly and effectively?

...

The [Energy Arts] instructors I've looked into seem to offer regular classes instead of seminars. Who are the exceptions?

I'm glad you are sharing again Pietro. I've said it before that BKF's students are underrepresented around here. But no pressure :)

 

Yours,

Tyler

Edited by Creation

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Ramon25

 

Listen to Pietro.

 

You can't just start with inner dissolving because you got the book and like the idea of it. Inner dissolving comes after much work on outer dissolving, outer dissolving only really gets going once you have learned to release and surrender fully (song) while standing and sink your qi (chen qi). Dissolving blockages (with outer dissolving) and opening all the gates up properly is not as easy as it may sound. Bruce's stuff is deceptively simple ; )

 

None of Bruce's published works can take the place of the material as passed on through a teacher, in fact a lot of it you simply cannot learn from. They are great as study aides only.

 

The process of inner smile is fundamentally different to the dissolving processes not in 'technique' so much as the way it engages with your xin (heart-being), mixing techniques from one methodology to another if they are as fundamentally different as Frantzis and Chia's stuff will only confuse your nervous system. It is simply a waste of time, work with the whole of one method rather than picking bits of lots it should work out better for you.

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Well I get what your saying but after my kundalini awakening I have learned how to feel blockages deep in my system (its part of the process). Second, There is no way on earth I will get to meet or be tought anything from Bruce himself. I believe the ability to learn from a book is dependent on the person. If your are the type of person who does not learn well from other's but leanrs well from a book like me then I think it is good. getting taught bu one of these guys is not very practical for everybody and I seem to find the ability of feeling deep within my body really easy. :) THanks though I am not going to do the IS because I am going to focus on ID. Regarding the demons yeah they are there for sure but Alot of it feels like unintergrated lefyt over from my (dark night) expirience. I feel like whayt I need the most now is cleansing,refinement and intergartion.

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your understanding and purpose are the things that shape your practice

if your understanding evolves in time, so does your practice...

 

"A daoist rides one horse at a time" - Yes! good one!

 

another way of putting it:

1. only your (little) understanding could limit a (working) practice

2. only your (incorrect) purpose could limit a (working) practice

 

edit: some other practices don't work if you don't have enough Qi to 'start' them...

Edited by Little1

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Hi Tyler,

honestly Bruce isn't charging that much. He charges 800 euro for 5 days. But then with the material from those 5 days you go on for at least a year. So you should spread the cost over the 12 months. That's 100 euro for 45 days of your personal practice. That's not so bad. Yes, you can go to a lot of other course that will ask only for 2 or 3 hundreds. But then how soon have you unpacked everything, and are you hungry again?

For me I have gone to the teacher instructor now in Brighton, and the next is the one in Crete next year. I am jumping all the others. As you (and nearly everybody else), I have limited resources, and need to focus on what I am ready to take.

 

snowmonki,

thanks for the tip about the nervous system. I didn't realise that that was what was going on.

 

Ramon, reading what you say, you claim to be able to feel blockages inside of you. And it seem that you have dissolved up to a certain point. It is quite common to get some part of it, but not complete it. My suggestion would be to stand, and dissolve.

 

Once you hit those parts that you feel unintegrated you might want to try to do the water to gas part. You need to clear your energetic layers before working on the deeper side. First of all because you need the clarity that comes from the hours of practice, and second because by having dissolved on the energetic level it will be easier for you to dissolve at the others. (It's a bit like a blocked pipe, you want to start releasing it from the bottom. You release it from the middle and the energy might not go anywhere, and will freeze again).

 

I agree that the ability to work with a book is dependent on the person. It's just that there are more people who think they can work with a book then people who can actually work with a book. In any case, at least get the CD.

 

Why do you say that it is not possible for you to work with Bruce?

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hey pietro! firstly thanks for your continued responses. Well the reason I cannot work with bruce is well money. Im out of work and 19 so i am not goin to be able to expend resources in that direction for a while but I need a practice that I can start working on now. For the last few years I have been In a kundalini roller coaster, just now I feel Like Im ready to finally start intergrating and refining my self/soul/life into a more spritually orientated manner. But god its so confusing! There is so much mis information and different stuff out there that i feel lost. I dont think i can do really heavy alchemal stuff like a lots of chia stuff, not with kundalini, i think it will burn me up. So I have been researching alot and putting together a list of practices I think i will be able to focus on for a while but im trying to do it smart. Alot of the stuff On Trunks site seems really helpful adn is really helping to send me in the right direction. Really What I am trying to do is 1.preserve health 2. intergrate my kundalini experience so I can get on the path to wholeness and get on with my life as it is sort of at a stand still. But everything i keep getting is so here and there, it can be a little maddening and discouraging. Anyway sry for the rant. But pietro your last discourse on inner disolving was a little obscure to me. :( Sorry if im being a bone head. But I didnt understand much

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Having practiced both methods as well, I agree whole heartedly with Pietro who gave you very sound and helpful advice. Stand and dissolve. Can you do just that for two weeks ? and then check back in with where you are.

 

In my opinion, the Inner dissolving book is a great reminder once you have experienced the real practice, but right now I suggest you should just work with the breathing exercises.

 

 

All the best

Aaron

 

PS Bruce's material aint cheap but quality never is. :D

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hey pietro! firstly thanks for your continued responses. Well the reason I cannot work with bruce is well money. Im out of work and 19 so i am not goin to be able to expend resources in that direction for a while but I need a practice that I can start working on now. For the last few years I have been In a kundalini roller coaster, just now I feel Like Im ready to finally start intergrating and refining my self/soul/life into a more spritually orientated manner. But god its so confusing! There is so much mis information and different stuff out there that i feel lost. I dont think i can do really heavy alchemal stuff like a lots of chia stuff, not with kundalini, i think it will burn me up. So I have been researching alot and putting together a list of practices I think i will be able to focus on for a while but im trying to do it smart. Alot of the stuff On Trunks site seems really helpful adn is really helping to send me in the right direction. Really What I am trying to do is 1.preserve health 2. intergrate my kundalini experience so I can get on the path to wholeness and get on with my life as it is sort of at a stand still. But everything i keep getting is so here and there, it can be a little maddening and discouraging. Anyway sry for the rant. But pietro your last discourse on inner disolving was a little obscure to me. :( Sorry if im being a bone head. But I didnt understand much

 

Hi Ramon, no reason to be sorry about.

I think Planochigung put it more clearly. Just stand and dissolve, and work on your breathing. Actually do only one of those two at the time, for now. We'll work on how to integrate stuff after.

 

The reason you did not understand have more to do with experience (and lack of), tha with reasoning. When we say you need to get the basic, this is not to just dissolve stuff at this level, but also to have the clarity and discernment to be able to distinguishing in the sea of sensations that you receive what is what.

 

If money is the problem, but travelling is not, and you are / can come to Europe, you could come to Portugal this summer. I just bought a house, as I always wanted to make a taoist community. The house is pretty big, but it needs a LOT of work. So this summer I am inviting students and friends to come and help with the renovation. Provided you are willing to do your share of work, I am more than happy in the morning to teach you what I know. I am certified both from Mantak Chia and from Bruce, and I can possibly give you a good start.

 

(The offer is more general, if anyone is interested please contact me. My only requirement is that we try to keep it as a community focused in taoism. Just because there are many communities around the world, but I haven't found a single one focused on Taoism! I should make a thread about it soon.)

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Thanks for ther offer peitro that is very kind of you but i will not be able to go. Anyway that sounds great and good luck with that! You should post about it. Hey isnt portugal in south america or am i off here? So hey the inner dissolving is more complicated than it sounds like like huh? I was under the impression that this was done sitting and not standing (i have not gotten the book yet).I already have quite a few standing things im doing so I need sitting one to help balance me out. So i guess we will see.

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Thanks for ther offer peitro that is very kind of you but i will not be able to go. Anyway that sounds great and good luck with that! You should post about it. Hey isnt portugal in south america or am i off here? So hey the inner dissolving is more complicated than it sounds like like huh? I was under the impression that this was done sitting and not standing (i have not gotten the book yet).I already have quite a few standing things im doing so I need sitting one to help balance me out. So i guess we will see.

Inner dissolving is done sitting, but you need a good understanding of outer dissolving first. And that is done standing. Plus you clearly need to integrate different parts. This is done better standing.

 

Regarding Portugal, yes is quite near to south america. Same planet at least ;-).

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Thanks for ther offer peitro that is very kind of you but i will not be able to go. Anyway that sounds great and good luck with that! You should post about it. Hey isnt portugal in south america or am i off here? So hey the inner dissolving is more complicated than it sounds like like huh? I was under the impression that this was done sitting and not standing (i have not gotten the book yet).I already have quite a few standing things im doing so I need sitting one to help balance me out. So i guess we will see.

 

You might want to pick up the book Opening the energy gates of your body by B.K. Frantzis in it Kumar goes into great detail about the Outer dissolving process and longevity breathing that Pietro and Snowmonki are mentioning. If you really practice and then practice some more the methods in that book, you would have a VERY solid foundation in Frantzis's energy arts system.

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Ramon

 

I appreciate any development you have already and the ability that goes with it, but you cannot learn what is not in a book and what is in a book is only a brief example of what it is all about. It is not really a how to in the true sense of the concept. Yes it gives pointers.

 

Learning from a book, from what i have experienced and witnessed in countless people using books alone against, people learning the same method from actual teachers, is generally not recommended. At best you won't hurt yourself. Can you learn something, of course you can, does prior experience mean you can get more from it, of course it does, does it mean you are doing what they are actually talking about? no. Does it mean you understand the bigger picture, including all the things that are NOT said within the book that support and really make the method work? no.

 

What is in a book is in a book for a reason, what is not is not.

 

Looking at your replies to Pietro, who is being more than helpful, though i would say you don't want help but validation that you can take two practices from two methods you are not directly trained in and due to your 'kundalini' can make them into something you can work with. If that is the way you want to go, then by all means take the exercises as you understand them, play with them and see. I'm sure something will happen, which you can use to validate your reasons for doing so.

 

But if you want to actually learn and use either the inner smile or the inner dissolving process as they are INTENDED to be used, then LISTEN to Pietro, if Chia or Bruce are out of range find someone that is not.

 

The progression if i recall is not one of choosing a method ( i can't check as my instructor has the book the reference is in at the moment), and yes there is more to both the outer dissolving and the inner dissolving than Bruce puts into the books, it is more a case of the TYPES of blockages engaged with and the quality of them as to whether they release 'outwards' (becoming filtered back into the energy system through the more expansive energy fields) or 'inwards' when you dissolve them. It has to do with which of the eight energy bodies the blockages occur within and so on.

 

Bruce teaches zhan zhuang first, once you can stand having 'song' released and 'chen qi' sunk your qi to and through your feet for at least 20-30 minutes (long enough to do dissolving), you should then work on outer dissolving and opening up all of the energy gates in your body. Standing is just the most beneficial position to learn this from, once you find that the blockages are of a different nature and releasing inwards you begin to incorporate sitting and inner dissolving. At least this is the basic idea and progression as i understand it and i'm certainly no expert. A teacher can asses and help you to understand just where you are and will guide you appropriately.

 

Pietro

 

Thank you for your posts it has been nice to read stuff about Bruce's work (that isn't just defending him : p) , i have to agree with Creation, the Water method does seem rather underrepresented around here.

 

Bruce alludes xin/hsin to the central nervous system in some of his writings from what i can recall. Our central nervous system learns in patterns and shapes, one of the main differences in how our bodies react to different 'systems' of qigong has to do with the method of development/learning the system uses and the patterns/shapes that are currently within our central nervous system. This is why Bruce is quite black and white with what he calls Fire methods and Water methods in my opinion. As he says it is not so much the techniques they use as the way they are used to engage with the central nervous system. The 70% rule is one aspect in many ways, another is the use of conscious feeling over visualisation (the one engages the sensory-motor system more, the other engages the optical nerve and the visual cortex?? and other parts of the brain more*). This, in my opinion, is to do with the goals of the practice. I loved Chia's stuff when i was first introduced to it, but the 'Water method' is what my nervous system wanted. I'm not certified in either just a student studying : )

 

*There is of course cross over as you cannot isolate, and i am talking very simplistically.

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Hello snowmonki

 

Pietro

 

Thank you for your posts it has been nice to read stuff about Bruce's work (that isn't just defending him : p) , i have to agree with Creation, the Water method does seem rather underrepresented around here.

 

Bruce alludes xin/hsin to the central nervous system in some of his writings from what i can recall. Our central nervous system learns in patterns and shapes, one of the main differences in how our bodies react to different 'systems' of qigong has to do with the method of development/learning the system uses and the patterns/shapes that are currently within our central nervous system. This is why Bruce is quite black and white with what he calls Fire methods and Water methods in my opinion. As he says it is not so much the techniques they use as the way they are used to engage with the central nervous system. The 70% rule is one aspect in many ways, another is the use of conscious feeling over visualisation (the one engages the sensory-motor system more, the other engages the optical nerve and the visual cortex?? and other parts of the brain more*). This, in my opinion, is to do with the goals of the practice. I loved Chia's stuff when i was first introduced to it, but the 'Water method' is what my nervous system wanted. I'm not certified in either just a student studying : )

 

*There is of course cross over as you cannot isolate, and i am talking very simplistically.

 

I don't know much about the xin. Bruce gave a workshop in Ulm about it last year. It was a m a z i n g !! I have maybe done 10 or 15 workshops with him so far, and abour 3 or 4 are just way way better then the rest. This was one of those. We did not enter into what the various practices do to the nervous system, so I don't know much about it. It was more about how to access it.

 

I think you are quite correct about how the visualization is used less in the water method, although we do use it. But we use it in a different way. For example you review parts of a form by visualizing yourself doing it. But it's not just visualization, as you are supposed to also run the energy in the channels while you are doing it. Tiring.

 

Have you read the post I wrote in the other thread. I love how it got totally ignored.

 

But it's important. Because this is where the two labels came from. After having discussed with Bruce over and over and over, and having discussed with Alan (who also happens to be a an academic professor in Archeology), over and over I reached the conclusion that this is what it boils down to. And it was confirmed. I then asked permission to write an article, and Alan agreed to review it, and Bruce agreed to read it after Alan has reviewed it the first time. And I never wrote a line!

 

As long as we ground the difference between fire and water on the practices that are being done, and not on the historical process that led to the division (taoism versus neotaoism) we are bound to have an incredible amount of misery, discussion and misunderstanding. This because, although it might be not good to mix things up, people do mix things up all the time. And then they say that they are doing fire and water. And then they recover the concept of the kan and li, and stick it above it, just because it fits well. And since fire and water are also two elements, then there should be other 3 somwhere. But then, -"oh wait, why not other 6, after all they are also directions". But then "what about other 62? After all they are also hexagrams".

The division is an historical division: taoism, versus neo-taoism.

 

And of course the other problem is that people want to do taoism, not neo-taoism. Because neo-taoism sounds wrong. Sounds false. And people think you want to cheat them if you say that they are doing neo-taoism, and you are doing taoism. But hey, neotaoism has mixed in confucianism, and buddhism. Those are cool traditions to be mixed with.

 

And then you have those people like Liu who were both a daoist and a neo daoist, and a confucianist and a buddhist! And we are not speaking about people who reached enlightenment and then each other tradition gave the ok. We are speaking about people who completed the course in one tradition, then completed again the course in the second and so on. And this mixes everything up.

 

Oh well.

Honestly keep it as taoist versus neotaoist.

 

It's just simple enough without losing any fundamental complexity.

/rant

 

 

Pietro

 

P.S. What do you think, shall we start a thread for the water people? Something like the one the kunlun people have done?

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P.S. What do you think, shall we start a thread for the water people? Something like the one the kunlun people have done?

 

Yes definitely, you should do it! Especially because you're certified by both Bruce and Mantak, you should explain the differences between them. Also please, what is your opinion about Mantak Chia's teachings in what category they fall - Water/Fire method - old taoism/neo taoism ?

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...Bruce and Mantak, you should explain the differences between them.

 

maybe one day :)

 

...Also please, what is your opinion about Mantak Chia's teachings in what category they fall - Water/Fire method - old taoism/neo taoism ?

 

I am pretty sure the whole of Mantak Chia practices come from neo-taoist, or at least fire tradition sources.

 

(You remember, as soon as the old taoism started mixing with buddhism we call this fire traditions, but only when they finally merged and incorporated also confucianist values they are fully recognised as neo-taoist)

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maybe one day :)

 

 

Maybe today? :lol:

 

I was going to start a thread on this very topic so it's cool I found this. I think the dissolving potential of the Inner Smile is often overlooked. I've found it to be profoundly effective.

 

Pietro, have you read Winn's ebook on the Inner Smile? If so, what do you think about his take on it as a dissolving practice?

 

He definitely takes to a different level than Mantak. He says that the cultivation of unconditional love, which is basically what the Inner Smile is, aids in the dissolving process.

 

As you say there is some confusion over what exactly fire and water means. Winn says that the Inner Smile process is ultimately neither as it cultivates yuan non-duality.

 

I agree that it is difficult to do and is best learned under a teacher with close instruction. This is one reason I regret that it's potential, especially as a dissolving practice, is often overlooked in the Healing Tao school.

 

It is quite interesting for me to see the differences in emphasis these two schools have on dissolving.

 

Does anyone else have any experience with either or both these methods and care to comment on their experience?

Edited by RyanO

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Maybe today? :lol:

 

I was going to start a thread on this very topic so it's cool I found this. I think the dissolving potential of the Inner Smile is often overlooked. I've found it to be profoundly effective.

 

Pietro, have you read Winn's ebook on the Inner Smile? If so, what do you think about his take on it as a dissolving practice?

 

He definitely takes to a different level than Mantak. He says that the cultivation of unconditional love, which is basically what the Inner Smile is, aids in the dissolving process.

 

As you say there is some confusion over what exactly fire and water means. Winn says that the Inner Smile process is ultimately neither as it cultivates yuan non-duality.

 

I agree that it is difficult to do and is best learned under a teacher with close instruction. This is one reason I regret that it's potential, especially as a dissolving practice, is often overlooked in the Healing Tao school.

 

It is quite interesting for me to see the differences in emphasis these two schools have on dissolving.

 

Does anyone else have any experience with either or both these methods and care to comment on their experience?

 

The inner smile along with the healing sounds are two of my main practices, and I have gotten very good results with them.

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