Search the Community

Hello, An initiation in London is coming up for Xiao Yao Pai and I am thinking about attending. It sounds interesting. I just wanted to ask anyone who has been initiated and done the practices what there experiences have been with Xiao Yao Pai. So, what are your experiences? Both 'normal' (improved mood, health, etc), and mystical (seeing auras, communicating with deities when you didn't before, increased intensity of energy in practices, healing abilities, OOBE, etc), and, whatever else (like improvement in practices)? If you can (concisely) describe the practices involved that would be appreciated too. Would the practices involved be called Neidan? Neigong? Qigong? Any (concise) relevant information would be appreciated). I'm still quite new to Chinese and Taoist terminology.

Hello, You guys are all always saying how good or important a real life teacher is. Does anyone here have any opinions on Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu? A friend of mine teaches Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu. I've gone to them for traditional Chinese medicine before (acupuncture and massage) also. I've always felt great after the sessions and, just being around them, you can tell they have a very calm and calming demeanour. Due to my recent interest in the Neidan/Neigong Taoist/Chinese side of spiritual/energy work, I asked them if what they taught covered any of the following: Neidan, Neigong, Weigong, Qigong, Daoyin, Taoist Magick, Hand Seals, Star Stepping. Their reply was that Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu incorporates all of those things. So, I am thinking of getting involved and starting some lessons. They all seem to work together but I think there are some lessons on Qigong/Daoyin/Meditation and some on external movements/Kung fu. I'm thinking of going with both. Any thoughts on this approach, the Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu system as a whole, etc, are welcome. Thank you for your time. Satya

For anyone who was wondering neigongforum.com was down for two days due to a way over-complicated hosting transfer. It took two days of hard work but it should be running correctly now like before. If you run into any errors be sure to let me know.

Which banner do you guys think looks the best and why? (lol)

Neigong Forum Relaunched! I proposed the idea of starting a nei gong forum. I kindu gave up since I really had no clue what I was doing or how to start one, but after tons of research I got the hang of it and decided to go for it. Anyways everyone seemed to support the idea so for everyone that PMed me saying they were interested and who commented on the thread I thought I'd announce it in case you missed it. There is also something I'd like to say to The Tao Bums community. I've had some heated debates with some of you in the past and some of you I don't particularly like, but none of that will carry over to my new forum. I'm starting fresh over there and I'd like everyone to know that they are welcome to join the forum and participate if they wish. Even if I disagree with you, you are still welcome to express your opinion freely. The only thing I don't want is trolling (obviously) so don't just go join for the purpose of making 10,000 "wire up your a**" jokes". The forum is obviously centered around neigong but there are also sections for martial arts, qigong, philosophy, etc. in case you are more interested in those topics.

Hey! So, from what i've understood most systems of inner alchemy have similar stages of development. Also, most of them have elements of accumulating inner fire, pairing yin and yang/water and fire/lead and mercury/hun and po. The theory of it can be understood in many different terms, and is in most cases described clearly. I've been wondering about something that doesn't take much space in literature though: vibrations in the dantian. I've been able to find cross-cultural references to most stages of inner development and alchemy, but have a hard time finding references to the stage of development where the dantian starts shaking/vibrating. Do any of you have any thoughts on this? How is it mentioned symbolically in literature about neidan (or other systems). What are your experiences? Is it a theoretical part of a system you practice? One thought I've had as an explanation is that many of the signs of development are purposefully not described, as to avoid that a student focuses on a result in stead of the method, and ends up distorting the process and bringing about an incomplete elixir, or harming the body. Thus the teacher will know for sure when the sign develops that the student is ready, and not just "willing" forth an effect in the body. I'm going to ask my shifu about this on thursday, until then I hope I can pass the subject back and forth with you bums a bit

Neigong could be said to see whole body enlightenment and immortality by purging, tonifying and regulating toward jing, qi, shen refinement and development of the energy/spirit/Immortal bodies, while Kriya could be said to focus upon raising kundalini to the crown and enlightening/escaping consciousness from the confines of the body... But, what is the consensus from a Neigong standpoint - will Kriya Yoga pull energy away from the Neigong process? Personally, I love both - but what's the poop from the bums?

Hello im wondering if anyone on the forum knows of any masters or skilled teachers that are in Vancouver B.C. Canada. Im going to be moving down to the city to go to school and would like to immerse myself more in the internal arts. My goal being I want to integrate the old with the new and supplement my boxing/wrestling (mma training) as well as develop healing abilities along the way. Currently I practice Zazen meditation and the spring forest qigong level 1 standing exercises.

Hey guys just wanted to let you know I'm starting a practice group here in Sacramento. Feel free to contact me. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cls/4404044089.html

I'm thinking about creating a nei gong forum, but first I need to anyone would be interested in participating. If you're wondering why I'm thinking of doing this it's because, for the most part, the only reason I'm on TTB in the first place is to follow nei gong/mo pai related threads and sort of keep an eye on what's going on. However, as it turns out, I think it's quite obvious that TTBs is a good place for these threads. It is my opinion that there needs to be a separate forum for Mo Pai/nei gong related topics. Anyone agree with this? Who all would be interested in participating in a nei kung forum?

Hello Everyone! I thought I'd introduce myself, give some background, and explain my goals for utilizing these forums. Hopefully someone might be able to point me in an appropriate direction after reading. Soon I will be leaving on a sustainable agriculture initiative to work with some tribal peoples in South America. I will essentially be spending two years in a very remote place without running water or electricity with a decent amount of free time. This to me seems like the perfect opportunity to get some real work/practice done in qigong/yoga/neigong/neidan/weidan/etc and/or the other techniques discussed in these forums without the usual distractions of daily life. So, I've been digging around in the forums for a few weeks, as I wanted to do my due diligence before posting. After hours reading through with seemingly hundreds of tabs open on my browser, I feel I haven't made much progress in finding truth. Threads tend to devolve into arguments and heresay. So I'm hoping those with a little more experience can help me discern the Dragons from the Snakes. Who is legitimate? Who are the frauds? Wang Liping, Dr. Jiang Feng, and John Chang appear to be authentic in achieving a high level of mastery in their various lineages. David Verdesi is a controversial figure to say the least. Can anyone say with confidence who has real attainment and is worth pursuing as a teacher and mentor? I would love to hear your recommendations about where to start my journey. I hear one can injure themselves pretty severely if they train incorrectly. I'd like to eliminate that option from the get-go. Here are the books I own so far: -Opening the Dragon Gate - The Making of an Authentic Taoist Immortal trans by Thomas Cleary -Ling Boa tong Zhi Neng Nei gong Shu - Wang Liping and Richard Liao -Daoist Neigong - The Philosophical Art of Change by Damo Mitchell -Both of Kostas Dervenis books The Magus of Java and Nei Kung: The Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages -2 of Bruce Frantzis' books on the water method of Meditation: Relaxing Into Your Being and The Great Stillness I would certainly also appreciate your recommendations as far as resources and books. So far all of the complex metaphors and translation issues has been fairly confusing to me. Does anyone have a preference for a translation of the Dao De Ching? I'm also beginning work with a yoga instructor so that hopefully I will be able to sit in Full lotus position by the time I leave for South America. Lastly, I wanted to share my motivations for pursuing this path. Obviously they are multifactorial, but ultimately it boils down to simply a yearning to understand the nature of existence itself. Who and what am I? Why do I or any of us exist? How much potential do I have, and how can maximize my ability to make a positive impact on the world? Don't get me wrong, of course I'm psyched about the abilities that supposedly come along with that understanding, but to me those are just awesome side effects and great tools for helping people. Anyway, I wish everyone the best and look forward to hopefully hearing from some of you soon!

What is the importance of neigong in internal martial arts? Well, according to a very highly respected bagua zhang practitioner from Beijing, Ma Chuanxu, practicing martial techniques in internal martial arts without first developing neigong (which primarily involves opening the small and large circulations) is just a waste of time from the point of view of ever developing high level internal martial arts skill. This is why authentic internal martial arts training primarily focuses on practices which develop neigong. In xingyi, they typically might do a lot of standing practice, while in bagua it is lots of basic circle walking, and in taiji regularly practicing the taiji form will develop neigong, although all of the internal arts may supplement with other neigong practices as well depending on the exact lineage and teachers. Can you achieve high level neigong if you do not maintain a long period of celibacy while developing your neigong skill? According to Ma Chuanxu, no, but men who are not celibate can apparently achieve a lower degree of neigong if they do not have too much sex. I am not sure if there is any such requirement for women, but it was primarily men who learned the internal martial arts during Ma Chuanxu's time, so that is why he likely didn't comment on the requirements for women. Ma stated that a serious internal martial arts student would need a period of about six years or so of celibacy to develop good neigong skill, and even then that is only if they are practicing very diligently and correctly of course. This would explain why so few internal arts practitioners reach a high level of internal skill, as the requirements and commitment is not at all easily achievable by most people. Ma did say that once you have achieved a good level of neigong skill that the practitioner can have sex once every two or three months without too much problem, (which should no doubt be reduced as you get older), but too much more than that and you will likely degrade your internal skill too much. You can read the whole interview with Ma Chuanxu by Jarek Szymanski from 2000 at the following link. I think it is very interesting reading for the student of the internal martial arts, or for anyone who is interested in understanding the requirements of authentic neigong training. It is not often that you get to hear a real master speak so openly about the requirements for training neigong in the internal martial arts. http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html Here's a video clip of Ma Chuanxu doing a little bagua and xingyi, probably from a number of years ago. Very fluid and soft, as authentic internal martial arts which are built on neigong require. Ma Chuanxu is probably around 80 years old now, based on the birthdate that Jarek indicated for him.

I've been meaning to post this up but kept forgetting. The link was originally posted on YouTube during a 'debate' on Tim Cartmell's video of these exercises. I've no intention of going into who is right or wrong or whatever (one can practice exercises in more than one way, depending on ones mood alone). I do think the video is useful and interesting for anyone doing these exercises, and the source does seem to be authentic and direct. http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/39441868-1117945852.html For anyone with the book it will be helpful in showing the exercises actually being performed.

Duality. Separation. At the beginning there is duality, there is separation. Irritation, annoyance, distractions. The outside world and the ego grate against each other. Movement. The movement starts. Qi travels down the arms. The laogong, the palms, the fingers. Streams and pools of heat. The arms circle. Inside and outside combine. The light expands. The heat expands. The arms, the body. The heat of the Sun is within and without. Heaven and Earth join. Heaven and Earth combine. The promise, the caress of creation strokes the inside. The centre delights. We bow to the Divine. We bow to the Ancestors. We bow to the teachers. We look inwards to see outwards. The Sun’s light, the Sun’s heat expands. The dawn has come. The Sun rises. Within and without, I am the Sun. There is no North, South, East or West. I am the Sun. There is no inside, there is no outside. I am the Sun. We bow to the Divine. We bow to the Ancestors. We bow to the Teachers. We look inwards to see outwards. The Tao is all. All is the Tao. The Gift of the Tao is Great.

I would like people to recommend particular practices that they have found beneficial. I realise that this can span a fairly wide area of experience, and so I hope others can respect that. I think it would be particularly useful for people to discuss their own experiences, rather than to attack or disparage what others have, or are, doing. I can assure you I've had my eyes opened by a lot of things that I didn't expect, and found prejudices to be deeply unfounded. So, please, some positive recommendations. The idea here is to offer people some beneficial areas for them to investigate. Everyone will have their own particular inclinations, and so there will be differences of opinion. That is fine, as long as people remember everyone finds their own particular path, some of whom will be fellow travelers, and others who will be seeking the same destination but via a different route. That a particular path did not suite one person does not mean it is not right for another. Finally, I would request that if someone trolls, please do not respond, but simply ignore them. That way they have no effect on the conversation and will soon disappear (either by choice or by moderator intervention). Thank you.

Hello fellow wayfairers, I find myself with very low energy now and for the past, maybe, 6 months. Before that time and especially a few years back I was typically a high energy person and fairly well centered/grounded. I think Qigong/neigong is the way to fix that for me. I have 2 books which came highly recommended, The Way of Energy by Master Lam Kam Chuen and Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body by Bruce Frantzis. Ive begun practicing Zhang Zhuang along with some of the internal techniques and body alignments Frantzis talks about and I have felt a increasingly strong chi sensation as I practice as if I'm improving and tapping into my chi. I also feel more energetic after a practice session. The closest things to chi instruction I have near me is a shoddy Aikido dojo and a young american Tai Chi Chuan instructor that claims to have spent time studying it in China. Now my question is, is it possible to learn Qigong exclusively from books, videos, and mindful practice? Anyone here have success with self/book taught Qigong for healing themselves? Should I try out the Tai Chi guy? I appreciate your help friends

This workshop includes Inner Alchemy, sitting, standing & movement forms, and Taoist Medicine & Qi Projection (Wai Qi Liao Fa) Clinical Qigong techniques. Valid only for the first 3 NEW workshop participants (must be registered on TTB) who register: Register and attend the September 28,29,30 Stillness-Movement workshop in Springfield, Missouri and get free the full package of Gift of the Tao I, Gift of the Tao II Including Sequential Energy Center Activation, Balancing, & Dimensional Expansion, AND the Intro to Taoist Medicine DVDs (2). This is a close to $300 value, free!. Must register and attend all 3 days. Offer not valid to students who have already attended the workshop HOWEVER e-mail or call me for your very own special promotion.

Hi ! I read this forum for many years, but this is the first time I write. I’m doing it now because recently I have decided to participate in a workshop and the reviews I read here were fundamental to take that decision. So, it’s time to contribute. My first contact with Michael Lomax’s teaching was when I bought his DVD, Gift of Tao I (GOT I) a couple of years ago. At that time I was looking for some standing moving qigong to complement my quiet sitting. The first time I watched the DVD, I did not like it. The form looked very loose to me and I put it aside. My mistake! More than a year later, after I read the positive reviews on this forum, I gave it a shot and practiced it. The first time I practiced I felt a huge difference in the “air” around me. I was intrigued by the effects and I ordered his e-book from amazon. The first part of his book deals with his experience in shamanic practice and the second talks more about Daoist practice. I felt connected with the main points about the Daoist practice and it was very close to what I’ve learned about the traditional method of cultivation in China. 1 – Stillness (exception for the spontaneous movement) 2 – Emptiness of the mind (letting go of the mind) 3 – Gentle gaze at the Dan Tian 4 – The opening of the channels should be a natural process. 5 – No real results will come without putting in much time & effort. Even it is written in the book that this method requires an initial transmission, I started to feel very different while I was reading the book (a faraway metallic sound in my ears during the day, real focus on practice etc). Right away I started practice it, since it was not too different from my silent practice, the only exception was the hand position and no special breathing. Making a long story short, I was looking forward for his next workshop, but I was unable to attend last year in Finland or the distance one early this year. I attended his last workshop in US, last June. Here goes the Workshop Review: The workshop was held in Springfield, Missouri, on June 22, 23 and 24 (Clinical day optional), at one of the Holiday Inn Hotel. I arrived a couple of days earlier in the city and Michael was very thoughtful and sent me some indication for restaurants that I might like (I mentioned to him before that I like Asian-spice food) and requested his student to make contact with me. I had the opportunity to interact with 3 of them before the workshop, ask questions, hang out, dinner etc. They are very nice people, as all of the others students I interacted during the workshop. Sometimes you go to a workshop and you see the students fighting between them, gossip about each other etc. I interacted with almost everyone and I felt like I was with family and friends. I mention it, because for me it says a lot about the teacher and also about the system. The first day of the workshop started 9:00 am. I was the first one at the room and I can say the energy field inside it was very clear. It was very different from the rest of the hotel. Michael and the rest of his students arrived and the workshop started in a very casual manner. He gave everyone a sandalwood soap, lectured a little about the effects of a few plants and how good they are to clean the energy. He made a lot of jokes and the vibe there was very good. After that we started some warm-up with isometrics and a couple of the 8 pieces of brocade. One of his senior students was invited to demonstrate the GOT I, while all the others should follow. Before the workshop I practiced GOT I from the DVD for about two months and it was great, but what I experienced there was fantastic. We were doing it much slower than the DVD, each movement was practiced for a long time while Michael and some of his senior student was correcting the rest. After a couple of movements you could feel the energy field changing even more, I was sweating a lot, all my pores seemed to be open. After a little break to drink some water, we started to practice GOT II in the same manner. It is hard not to be amazed about those exercise. They are very simple, yet so powerful. The final sequence (Sequential Energy Center Activation, Balancing & Restoration) before the closing is the most powerful set that I’ve ever practiced. For me it is even better than GOT I and the rest of GOT II. Every time the energy descend, it gets stronger and stronger. At the end of the morning session we did GOT III. I’ve never seen it before, so most of time I was trying to understand the movements, while Michael gave some hints about the energetic aspects. Even so, I felt the effects immediately. Break time for lunch and then we did the stillness-movement practice for about one hour and forty minutes of sitting. Michael gave the group the transmission and this was the most intense part of the workshop for me. At the end I felt that was in some vast and soundless place. You see the hotel workshop room, but you do not feel you are there. Weird! The first day was so intense to me that later that night during dinner, I had a hard time dealing with the energy inside of my body. After I eat, it started to calm down. The next day before the workshop, I practiced the stillness-movement in my room. After a while my head naturally dropped a little and from nowhere the spontaneous movement started (I did not have any spontaneous movement during the transmission). I consciously stopped it, I was a little scared but it started again. Sometimes clockwise, sometimes counterclockwise, just right and left etc. I finished my practice thinking “WOW!!! What happened?”. The second day we started with GOT I, II and III and it was also very energizer. Before we went outside to do practice with the tree, Michael requested their senior students to talk a little about their experience with the system and the healing aspects. Without any apparent reason, I felt a strong urge to cry like a baby. Their testimonies were beautiful, but the urge was not related with what they were talking, but with something that I do not know. I hold it until the class was dismissed and then I went to restroom to cry. Michael and one of his senior students were there and they approached me very gently. Michael put his hand on my chest, talked with me and I felt a great relieve after that. After lunch we had more GOT III, demonstration about Daoist Medicine and one more sitting session with transmission. It was Rock n Roll all over again. The third day we learned and practiced Medical Qigong on each other. I have a pain in one of my fingers from a stick fight, when I used to practice Kali-Silat. After the treatment it was much better, about 70%. One of the students felt a great relieve on hers hamstrings and you could see in her face how impressed she was. At the end we learned Daoist Medicine and was time to say goodbye. I’ve never thought about do healing, but the material was a great eye opener. It was a terrific workshop and I look forward to join the next one. I have been in China a couple of times practicing sitting meditation and I’ve never been able to experience such high energy in only two days. Michael is not only a powerful and accessible teacher, but a very cool guy.The energy he brings is really powerful. The feeling I have after practicing it, is quite different, is like being in a vast space, empty and soundless.

After watching John Chang on YouTube recently and then reading the Magus Of Java I decided to do some research about him and send sms to my Chinese Indonesian wife's family in Indo to see if they had heard of him. I received 2 replys that said they have never heard of him But I did not give up, I sent the YouTube video to one of my wife's uncle's who watched da video and sent me an sms back saying he knows John Chang but he is known by another name. Chinese Indonesians have their Indo names but also go by their Chinese names when with other Chinese. The uncle advised me that John Chang had been to his place on a number of occasions to work on my wife's Grandfather, (Kungkung) and da uncle I was in touch with. It turns out that my wife is related to John Chang by marriage and John Chang's niece staying with me in Melbourne last year and will be coming again to visit at the end of this year. I was married in Indo, lived and worked their for more than a year and I can speak Indo. As I visit Indonesia once a year and have stayed in John Chang's city on numerous occasions staying with the uncle, my next visit I will set up a consultation with the man known to the west as The Magus Of Java ; Dynamo Jack ; John Chang... BTW my mother is a Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor and I have been studying Philosophy for the last 13 years. My favourite though is Taoism.