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Hello everyone. In this thread I'd like to continue discussion about "if it is possible/impossible to get everything from Books" which has started here ( http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43462-correct-words-of-patriarchs/) Back in time A.A. Khokhlov provided quotes from multiple Treatises where explicitly written that it's impossible to attain the Dao without the True Teacher (http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42854-about-necessity-of-having-a-true-teacher/). This shows us that it's not a position of a single writer, but position of entire Traditional Daoism. I would say that if such great Patriarchs as Zhang Boduan, Liu Huayang and others were writing that one can't get full knowledge from books even if he/she is smartest and talented person, than its most likely they had reasons to write it. This is the position of the Tradition (and also my point) Thank you --- Regards, Arkady

《修真十书悟真篇卷二十八》 袁公辅曰：千经万论，止载修丹事理，至于下手结交，火侯幽微，非遇师亲授，纵才过颜闵，则不可晓。平叔既序云：药物火候细微，无不悉备，好事者寻文辞义，岂须区区口授。今反此而言者，欲人之不敢轻议也。 袁(yuán)公(gōng)辅(fǔ) said: the myriad of the texts describe only the principles of refining the elixir, but as to starting the work and incepting it, and as to the subtleties of the fire phases – without getting those personally from a teacher – even if your talent surpasses 颜(yán) and 闵(mǐn), then these are hard to comprehend. About that, 平(píng)叔(shū) (Zhang bo-duan) in his foreword says: the subtle fire phases of the medicine are fully knowable, those who work well at seeking the meaning of the text - why would they need a secretive personal transmission? Now, contrary to the text, I urge people dare not to discuss it lightly. Is not this a hoot? Yeah, me and old Zhang think it is a hoot.

Back in the times of the Song dynasty, there was an elderly military official named Zhang Bo-duan, a remarkable man, whose magnum opus, Awakening To The Real, gave rise to the venerated Southern Lineage of the Taoist alchemy. Being around 80 years old, and meeting his teacher in Chengdu, province of Sichuan, Zhang spent less than a year with his teacher, till teacher’s passing. In order to fulfill his teacher’s wish to disseminate the teaching freely and fully, Zhang first preached unsuccessfully, then wrote the Awakening, then recruited students, (which ended in a spectacular failure), so much so that Zhang swore never to teach in person again. Instead, he transmitted the Awakening, a book on the Buddhist-Taoist alchemy, which ends with a poignant Afterword promising a full transmission to anyone who studies it closely. The Afterword is a deeply moving passage, a magic window into the real Daoism of a thousand years ago. This Christmas, let us rejoice in celebrating the old man Zhang and a brilliant scholar, Paul B.M. Crowe, who gifted this gem to the public domain in the now oh-so-distant 1997.

Grandmaster Wang Liping will be holding an Inner Alchemy Intensive from December 21 to 30, 2016 to be held in Hawaii. Please email [email protected] for details.

I practice since i was 11 some 40+ years ago. Half of the time i had no clue. but i build my skills, even did write some books that were published but that iI would now burn. for 15 years I lived in Wudangshan Travelling with my teacher and learning in direct contact with dao family. I run a school since 1995, but most people consider my practices to much work. I teach and practice acupuncture, massage and dietary practices. I am building a vlog on daoist practices and health called Daoland. It is in dutch, although maybe i should do it in English too. What else can i say? I use theory to support practice. I follow the five rule my first teacher Liu Dong An suggested: 'practice standing, practice movement, practice sitting, practice whirwind, be academic in your study', He also said to 'never practice less than 4 hours per day, never be happy with less than 8', and : 'eat less, sleep less, stay clean, keep feelings and desires inside, and at least appear common'.

Hello All, I am new to this community, and I have been browsing the content with great interest today. I live in the Southwestern US, and I am hoping to find a teacher in neidan. I hold this intent and project it into this digital space. Thank you in advance for any thoughts.

I seem to percieve an increase of Neidan in the west recently, more courses are being held, and more people seem to be practicing it than before. Has anyone else noticed it? This otherwise rather less well known practice seems to have gained more widespread recognition, which I think is rather good in itself. But at the same time I think this attention might come with an increased risk of false teachers and unserious practitioners. Even so is this not better than Neidan being obscure and mostly unknown? It's hard enough to find someone that teaches proper Neidan as it is today, if we end up having lot's of unserious teachers will finding a serious teacher become even harder?

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Hello Everyone, I thought I would throw out an opportunity for those interested in potentially having professional english translations of eastern alchemical texts. This is the original post from another forum: Translation Suggestions I am very interested in having more English translation of Eastern alchemical texts available to the public, however, my knowledge of these alchemical texts extends only to the ones already available in English. So, to the point: if there are any texts out there that you know of which would be a wonderful contribution to the Western understanding of Eastern Alchemical practices (internal and/or external; theoretical and/or practical), that you would like to see professionally translated into English, it would be my pleasure to add them to the pool of texts to be considered on the other forum (alchemyforums.com). Either that, or you can join the other forum and become involved first hand with the submissions

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Fabrizio Pregadio has revised and expanded his article "The Way of the Golden Elixir: An Introduction to Taoist Alchemy." It's a 72 page long historical overview of neidan. It's nicely formatted and pretty to look at and free. Here's the link: http://www.goldenelixir.com/files/The_Way_of_the_Golden_Elixir.pdf Merry Christmas!

(The original article by Dmitry Artemiev, translated from Russian.) First of all, we need to understand that Chinese culture has its own ideas, sometimes fundamentally different from the concepts of the other cultures. Daoism, and especially alchemy of immortality in Chinese tradition, although is well-known nowadays, I dare say have not been studied at all. It is especially true for the most ancient period of Daoism and the so-called Shenxian teaching. This is not surprising, the same is almost universally true for China. In fact, immortality is not really the desire to leave memory for the descendants, and not the desire to live forever on earth (a physical immortality and longevity although considered possible, never were the supreme goal of Daoism), but it is a realization of the supreme freedom that exists in every human being, although men usually do not know about it. This is well described in Wuzhenpian. Thus, Daoism is not a philosophy, not a religion, but the way of freedom. Of course finding the true essence of Daoism is extremely difficult because of all the later developments and distortions, but even today there are people in China who preserve the tradition of Daoism in its most ancient form. Daoist alchemy is the TEACHING of attaining UNITY. And not the physical one or the one of the mind (as nowadays the spirit is labeled), but attaining a particular state, THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE ACHIEVEMENT OF A HUMAN IN THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT. Immortality in Daoist alchemy is rather aimed at immortality of the spirit than physical immortality. In Daoist practice, there are certain stages that are characterized not by qigong phenomena, but rather by physiological changes and transformations (e.g. 人仙, 地仙, 神仙, 天仙, 金仙 and some others). Not all schools of Daoism called the same levels by the same names. We especially need to emphasize that the Chinese spirit has nothing to do with the concept of the consciousness, and that is what the character 神 tells us about. Daoist alchemy, as we know, was formerly referred to as Neidan and Waidan (usually translated as inner and outer alchemy). The very character DAN represents a pot in which melting occurs. However, few people know (and the Daoists insist on that), that this teaching existed since the most ancient times, and it is known in China at least since Huangdi. This teaching is called HuangLaoXue i.e. the teaching Huangdi and Laozi. It also has other names. The precise terms Neidan and Waidan appeared much later, in the beginning of Current Era. In fact, only Waidan could be called alchemy as the methods of the external elixir melting. Inner alchemy (which in scientific circles is considered derived from the outer one), held in the tradition a much higher and ancient status. It is called alchemy more because of the custom than meaning. Let's examine the classification in more details: 1. Ghostly immortal or ghost immortal - Guǐxiān (鬼仙). Gui Xian. Literally - the immortal of devils, devil immortal. This achievement was considered to be typical for the shamanic practices, the late Chan Buddhism, pseudo-Daoism, various meditative practices. Yin spirit leaves the body while its non-breathing and without heartbeat. Practitioner remains an ordinary mortal, despite the practice of soul leaving and possible acquiring of some abilities. Moreover, it is possible that after the death the practitioner would never be reborn, remaining a ghost forever. This practice is not a Daoist one and it was forbidden (serious practicing, not just jingzuo). 2. Human immortal or immortal among people Rénxiān (人仙) Actually not really an immortal. Moreover, each person passes this period in his or her life. It is an age of majority, peak of physiological prosperity. This is the very period when people are in their most exalted state (full and active). If one starts to practice alchemy in this period, it is possible to complete the second stage of Earth immortal very quickly. If time has passed and the energy is wasted, old age and infirmity came, then it would be necessary to bring the body back to this physiological level. Otherwise, it is impossible to proceed. Thus we can see that it is still not true immortality, but only attaining of the state of the highest primordial energy, i.e. Ming. 3. Earth Immortal - Dìxiān (地仙): This is what is commonly called immortality: immortality of the physical body on the Earth. But such a body, although may dwell forever on the Earth, can be destroyed by external damage. Therefore, such an achievement is not considered as a high one, and all practitioners sought to advance further, consider it as only an intermediate step. It should be noted that this achievement is the goal and the ultimate attainment of outer alchemy. Both at the previous and at this stage it is possible to develop various abilities of the level, but it is not the main path, but rather a side road. At this stage, Ming unites with Xing, and thus immortality becomes possible. Thats like a perpetual thermonuclear engine in ones own body on the Earth emerges. Thats where the abilities come from. Starting from this stage, the achievements are irreversible in terms of the inverse transformation (with the exception of Rénxiān who could easily become an ordinary person again, having spent Ming). But if, because of external conditions the practice is not completed or if the body is destroyed, one may have to go back to the previous level. 4. Spirit Immortal - Shénxiān (神仙) Spiritual embryo or Yangshen goes out of the head (born in the spiritual world), and it still needs to be nurtured and developed. This is similar to a mother (body) taking care of a child (spirit). When it becomes strong and this stage is completed the spirit can move anywhere in the Universe first to learn its structure and subsequently to perform spiritual work. It is no longer possible to kill him, he is immortal. But there is still body that requires attention. At a certain stage of development yang spirit Yangshen acquires the ability to multiply, reproducing itself. It can gradually grow to a huge number. They can perform a variety of spiritual work in different worlds. This is the very moment when complete understanding of the Universe and its laws comes as well as the meaning of further development. If the practitioner wishes, this phase can be prolonged for a very long time. For example, one can dwell in a cave for thousands of years and practice in spiritual bodies. 5. Celestial Immortal - Tiānxiān (天仙) The previous stage can already be prolonged to last forever. But the immortal spirit has still non-transformed body. Therefore, there is still an opportunity to continue to the highest stage, which, according to alchemy is possible on Earth - the transformation of the body into the body of light. This is the most difficult task, as it requires 9 to 10 years of immobility. It should be safeguarded by faithful disciples and followers, the Teacher, or by concealment, immured in a cave in accordance with certain rules. After its completion the body and the spirit merge together in the "body" of light and when the person who attained this level leaves the world nothing is left (except for remaining possessions as with Boddhidharmas shoe). If for some reason, the practitioner does not reach the highest stage, it may either willingly or been forced by circumstances "get rid of the corpse." Depending on the level attained, his remained body may not be susceptible to decay but self-mummify or even burn because of the inner fire. This scheme is based on the studies of the classics on the one hand and the Teachers guidance on the other. However, we must remember that the purpose of such conciseness is to provide a general understanding of the process, while in practical terms, each stage has its own pitfalls, secrets and downfalls.

Hello, An initiation in London is coming up for Xiao Yao Pai and I am thinking about attending. It sounds interesting. I just wanted to ask anyone who has been initiated and done the practices what there experiences have been with Xiao Yao Pai. So, what are your experiences? Both 'normal' (improved mood, health, etc), and mystical (seeing auras, communicating with deities when you didn't before, increased intensity of energy in practices, healing abilities, OOBE, etc), and, whatever else (like improvement in practices)? If you can (concisely) describe the practices involved that would be appreciated too. Would the practices involved be called Neidan? Neigong? Qigong? Any (concise) relevant information would be appreciated). I'm still quite new to Chinese and Taoist terminology.

Hello, You guys are all always saying how good or important a real life teacher is. Does anyone here have any opinions on Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu? A friend of mine teaches Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu. I've gone to them for traditional Chinese medicine before (acupuncture and massage) also. I've always felt great after the sessions and, just being around them, you can tell they have a very calm and calming demeanour. Due to my recent interest in the Neidan/Neigong Taoist/Chinese side of spiritual/energy work, I asked them if what they taught covered any of the following: Neidan, Neigong, Weigong, Qigong, Daoyin, Taoist Magick, Hand Seals, Star Stepping. Their reply was that Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu incorporates all of those things. So, I am thinking of getting involved and starting some lessons. They all seem to work together but I think there are some lessons on Qigong/Daoyin/Meditation and some on external movements/Kung fu. I'm thinking of going with both. Any thoughts on this approach, the Traditional Seven Stars Praying Mantis Kung Fu system as a whole, etc, are welcome. Thank you for your time. Satya

Hello im wondering if anyone on the forum knows of any masters or skilled teachers that are in Vancouver B.C. Canada. Im going to be moving down to the city to go to school and would like to immerse myself more in the internal arts. My goal being I want to integrate the old with the new and supplement my boxing/wrestling (mma training) as well as develop healing abilities along the way. Currently I practice Zazen meditation and the spring forest qigong level 1 standing exercises.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515095545.htm The article linked above is something I found very interesting. I think that many systems integrate aspects of both concentrative and nondirective meditation but focus more on one side than the other. My limited experience would lead me to classify certain systems as below. Your thoughts and additions are appreciated. Concentrative Healing Tao Yucatec numerical/geometric visualization Bardon Nondirective B.K. Frantzis' water method Zazen

Hello, I am just wondering (if they exist at all) what the specific systems of practice were in Taoism and if there are any specific resources from which to learn them, books or websites that illustrate/explain the practices. I have done some searches but not come up with anything conclusive. I am aware of the existence of Neidan, Qigong, Tai Chi (I have only practices Tai Chi), but am wondering what the specifics are of such practices. Basically, I am looking into adopting a new practice or set of practices and am up for hearing any/all recommendations for books, websites, systems, or, possibly teachers/schools. You can review my previous readings/practices on the lobby. I acknowledge the effectiveness of non-dual teachings, self enquiry (Mooji, Adyashanti, Gangaji, Jeff Foster, Nisargadatta, Ramana), the direct pointing, realising what is always present, but, anxiety problems cause a lot of reactivity for me that is hard to cut through. So, I am hoping/thinking that, in addition to non-dual teachings, of starting a practice (meditation, energy work, etc) where I can hopefully cut through some of the internal noise/dissolve some of the conditioning, or re-wire my brain through a practice and the phenomena known as neuroplasticity, so I can get to a place of abiding silence and I can go deeper with my realisation and self inquiry, or simply just get to a place where I am anxiety free and happy. I am also interested in Chinese/Taoist Healing (mainly for mental health [which still has a physical cause in the brain, so should be no different from 'physical health' healing]). I hope I am posting in the right place. Best Wishes

Hey! The deal is this: I am putting together an exhibition about chinese medicine where I will illustrate the relation between anatomy and energy, between medicine and cultivation. There are some topics I will take up with my pictures: -direct relationship between anatomy and energywork -illustrations of movement of qi -illustration of healthy qi movement contra diseased qi movement Now, practitioners of chinese medicine and cultivators, i need your help. I am 80% handyman when it comes to my artwork, and I want to broaden my spectrum of ideas. What are creative ways to illustrate these things? And, do you have any other ideas of what you would want shown through an image? So far I have only made two images: 1. cultivation. This image is a more anatomically-oriented version of the neijing tu combined with some elements from the xiuzhen tu. 2. internal and external pathways shown with anatomy and the three dantian. So, please everybody, give me your opinions and ideas for how I can make a really awesome exhibition in october, and if lucky help evolve the way we imagine our body and mind. best wishes, j

Hello Everyone! I thought I'd introduce myself, give some background, and explain my goals for utilizing these forums. Hopefully someone might be able to point me in an appropriate direction after reading. Soon I will be leaving on a sustainable agriculture initiative to work with some tribal peoples in South America. I will essentially be spending two years in a very remote place without running water or electricity with a decent amount of free time. This to me seems like the perfect opportunity to get some real work/practice done in qigong/yoga/neigong/neidan/weidan/etc and/or the other techniques discussed in these forums without the usual distractions of daily life. So, I've been digging around in the forums for a few weeks, as I wanted to do my due diligence before posting. After hours reading through with seemingly hundreds of tabs open on my browser, I feel I haven't made much progress in finding truth. Threads tend to devolve into arguments and heresay. So I'm hoping those with a little more experience can help me discern the Dragons from the Snakes. Who is legitimate? Who are the frauds? Wang Liping, Dr. Jiang Feng, and John Chang appear to be authentic in achieving a high level of mastery in their various lineages. David Verdesi is a controversial figure to say the least. Can anyone say with confidence who has real attainment and is worth pursuing as a teacher and mentor? I would love to hear your recommendations about where to start my journey. I hear one can injure themselves pretty severely if they train incorrectly. I'd like to eliminate that option from the get-go. Here are the books I own so far: -Opening the Dragon Gate - The Making of an Authentic Taoist Immortal trans by Thomas Cleary -Ling Boa tong Zhi Neng Nei gong Shu - Wang Liping and Richard Liao -Daoist Neigong - The Philosophical Art of Change by Damo Mitchell -Both of Kostas Dervenis books The Magus of Java and Nei Kung: The Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages -2 of Bruce Frantzis' books on the water method of Meditation: Relaxing Into Your Being and The Great Stillness I would certainly also appreciate your recommendations as far as resources and books. So far all of the complex metaphors and translation issues has been fairly confusing to me. Does anyone have a preference for a translation of the Dao De Ching? I'm also beginning work with a yoga instructor so that hopefully I will be able to sit in Full lotus position by the time I leave for South America. Lastly, I wanted to share my motivations for pursuing this path. Obviously they are multifactorial, but ultimately it boils down to simply a yearning to understand the nature of existence itself. Who and what am I? Why do I or any of us exist? How much potential do I have, and how can maximize my ability to make a positive impact on the world? Don't get me wrong, of course I'm psyched about the abilities that supposedly come along with that understanding, but to me those are just awesome side effects and great tools for helping people. Anyway, I wish everyone the best and look forward to hopefully hearing from some of you soon!

Hi everybody! Let me introduce myself a bit. I have investigated Taoism and western philosophy for several years (both practically and theory). I have been accepted as internal student of one of the orthodox Taoist schools of internal alchemy, studied about 2 years and quite. I also more then very curious about Mo Pai school. I have specially learnt Chinese for few years to start my own journey to China and find real Taoist internal alchemy school (because I know the right criteria very well, to know these criteria is a secret itself and may be learnt in one of the hidden schools only, like the one I had connection with). Right now I would like to find a company for my journey - 1-2 people. We can go to China search for hidden Taoist schools or we can go to Indonesia to search for Mo Pai - it's for us to decide. In Indonesia my Chinese will not help us a lot, but I have some good ideas how our search could succeed. P.S. I'm not crazy))) Please, don't hesitate to contact me!