sea-dog

Hello everyone, This may be a silly question, in which case I do apologize, but I was wondering what "Pure Yang" refers to and it's relevance to Taoism. I know there is a 'pure yang' style of kung fu and a 'pure yang sect' and I have vague memories of a book I read a long time ago referring to the immortal spirit body as a pure yang body. So, the dumb question is... What about yin? Don't we strive for balance between true yin and yang? I get nervous posting questions like this on discussions boards because I'm sure this is painfully obvious to a lot of you, so I hope you will be gentle with me. :-) Thanks -Seadog

Hello all, I have been working through fusion of the five elements and have been going back to Mantak Chia's Iron Shirt and Bone Marrow books. I have been getting some headaches during the packing process so I have stopped that for now. My question is specifically for those experienced in the Healing Tao tradition. My understanding is that the standing itself establishes rooting, connection to earth energy and most health benefits and that the chi packing is not completely necessary; and apparently using too much tension is common. SO my question (finally) is what do you think about just doing the iron shirt postures, primarily with basic qigong breathing as described in Bruce Frantzis's books and maybe a just a little gentle iron shirt packing and bone marrow breathing when it feels appropriate?

To me this does not look like a Shaolin monk vs. an mma fighter; this looks like two san da fighters, one of whom is a shaolin monk. That second clip (Brad Riddell v Yi Long) was crazy. Can you imagine fighting an opponent and just having them lower their hands and let you punch them over and over? I can, I used to literally have nightmares about it!

I think it has to do with time. Wait a while (couple weeks or so) and "ejaculate manually" and I think you will see a difference, lumpy yellow. By contrast if you 'manually ejaculate' (or with a little help from a friend) several times a day for a while you will notice that he ejaculate is very thin and watery and there is less of it. Normal.

I know what you mean about the trusting yourself part. As a new member here (and a relatively new member of Taoist internal alchemy too) I've got some great information but it's also been a bit unsettling because apparently there is a lot of disagreement and not everyone considers my current alchemical "path" (Healing Tao system as modified and taught by Michael Winn) to be legit. What type of internal alchemy do you practice?

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it and I think I was a bit hasty. There is still kind of a lot in the descriptions of the books that I strongly disagree with, but the fact is that the teachers in all areas that I respect highly usually have several ideas, beliefs or opinions that I disagree with and that doesn't take away from the quality of the teachings that they offer. I think the presentation of judgements coupled with the Dan kennedy style sales letter just basically didn't work for me. Wo knows though, I saw the white skeleton and it looks interesting (it actually strongly reminds me of a tarot meditation I know, but I like that this is somatically based) and maybe I will buy the "measuring meditation" book someday. The idea of judging the level of saints based on some checklist really makes me crack up, but again I'm sure that the teachings would be useful on a personal level (again, I'll reserve 'objectively' judging the level of saints at least until I reach said level or higher, for now I'll stick with figuring out what is most usfeul to me on my path :-) ). EDIT: Actually if I had the cash and they were available I might get these http://www.meditationexpert.com/alchemy-fugiens-tapes.htm just to see how they did with it. I do not accept that being a master of one (or three) traditions give you automatic understanding of all other systems (if that was the case we wouldn't have so many western experts screwing up eastern teachings), and don't accept that western alchemy was "really" just an internal process (it was internal and external, I'm a fan of Mark Stavish's book) but I've always thought one could probably effectively internalize the western process in the same way the Taoists internalized the originally external process. ...still I have enough to keep me busy for quite a while now, so I'm not disappointed I can't get them.

Ah, I had missed the recommendation of William Bodri and the link provided. DRT, I thank you so much for your posts on this thread. I certainly am a beginner (at least and especially in regards to Chinese and Taoist practices) and at the same time after reading this: http://www.meditationexpert.com/bestandworst.html I have very little interest in reading anything by William Bodri or Nan Huai-Chin. Perhaps when/if I am enlightened I will then feel qualified to pass judgement on all forms of meditation and cultivation and their objective validity, but until that I time I not only don't feel qualified I don't believe that anyone else is qualified either (whether they are certified enlightened or not). I should say that I'm sure William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin have some great books, and maybe I will read them sometime, but the nature of this book left a bad taste in my mouth. It reminds me of martial arts. I have had one instructor tell me that if I am attacked by a knife to never, under any circumstance, grab the attackers arm; an another instructor tell me to always immediately grab the attackers arm if they are attacking with a knife. The interesting thing is that both instructors have been attacked by people with knives and used their theories effectively. Maybe the one true way is not so clear cut.

I've got some great feedback, in another thread, by Dao rain Tao, so I think I will check out the recommended book myself. I'll probably order it either from the library or amazon right after I finish this post. My understanding/experience (keeping in mind that I am in no way even remotely a master) is that the front and back channels are basically on the skin. They are not the same as the central channel that runs much deeper right through the core of the body, along with two other "thrusting channels." I say "basically" because they are in your energy body not your physical body per se (that's how I learned it anyways). When you say you are not getting results, do you mean that you don't feel the energy? Or do you mean that you do feel the energy but are receiving no benefit from the exercise? If it is the former; I have learned, from several different teachers, to lightly brush your body with your fingers (or anything else) several times and then to kinesthetically "visualize" the feeling. You can also kinesthetically visualize the chi while tracing the pathway with you hands ~6 inches from you body. Lastly I found Michael Winn's DVD of mco chi kung movements to really help me a lot. I don't his mco audio tapes, but based on the CDs I do have I'm sure they are very good too.

This is fabulous, thank you so much. This has actually really helped my understanding of the whole process and filled in some aspects that I was unclear about. Since I already do the breathing I think I will probably still do a little at the end, but I will focus even more on just standing quietly, breathing and visualizing my skeleton. Thank you again. EDIT: Actually, based on this thread and the standing I just did (15 min., I have a long way to go) I may just cut the packing out completely. I smiled, relaxed and did qigong breathing only and felt better afterwards than I usually do. I definitely think I need to take the time, put in the work and get to the core of the practice.

I'm no expert, but since my tan tien doesn't seem to be "torn" I'm pretty sure the 36 hour thing is not true. ...if it turns out I'm wrong I'll let you know. I'm no expert, but for me I find abdominal breathing more useful for accumulating and storing chi and reverse breathing more useful for directing chi.

Thank you Snowmonki and Dao rain Tao. Dao rain Tao, I did not know about being able to stand fro an hour (which I cannot do yet) before doing packing. That's not how Chia teaches it, is that the way it was originally taught and/or still taught by others? I think that makes a lot of sense. What I've been doing the last couple days is getting in the posture and smiling to my tan tiens. Then scanning down my body and relaxing completely and doing 10-30 slow qigong breathes into the lower tan tien. After this I do the packing breath as taught by Chia, making sure to be completely relaxed. If I feel any tension at any point I stop and rlease it and I don't hold my breath beyond my comfort level. At various stages through out I do bone breathing (just bone breathing, very gentle, no bone marrow packing right now). I finish up with gently running the earth energy through the orbit 9-18 times (which is usually as long as I can stand). So far I think this is working out well, I think I will put even more focus on the just standing for now, and I will work on seeing/feeling the body as a skeleton. This has been happening already a bit the more I do bone breathing and I do think it will help. I really do appreciate your answers a lot. Thank You.

Hello everyone, I hope this hasn't been addressed already, I tried to search for it but I can't find anything. Does anyone have any informed opinions as to the necessity of Michael Winn's audio course for sexual alchemy? I have listened to Winn's Fusion 1, 2 and 3 audio course and was very impressed, I plan on getting the Lesser Kan and Li set when I am ready. Still, the next step in his progression is sexual alchemy and I have the book. I understand that Winn no longer endorses the million dollar point (which never worked for me anyways, so no problem) and puts the focus on recirculating energy instead of just stopping ejaculation. If I know this (and maybe get his sexual qigong DVD) do you think the audio course will really be necessary? Thanks.

Jeramiah Zeitigeist, Thank you for your response as well. We cross posted, my above post was to Chi Dragon. It's interesting that you say Iron Shirt and Bone Marrow Nei Kung are more advanced than Fusion. I'm not sure that I disagree, but in the Healing Tao system they are both generally taught before Fusion. I learned them along time ago, and had moderate success. I have holding the postures and circulating earth energy, as described in a few of Chia's books and in an article by Michael Winn and that has seemed enough, but I started the packing because I wanted to make sure I had a strong enough foundation. It appears that at least several Healing Tao senior instructors (like Michael WInn for example) don't do that packing as described and others (like Eric Yudelove) make a point of teaching quiet meditations in the postures in addition to the packing and bone breathing process.

Thank you for your response. Since I am new to the forum and unfamiliar with you, your background and your posting style I'm not sure if you are actually asking why I'm "treating these styles like jigsaw pieces," (I'm not) or if you are just making a rhetorical point. I also am not clear if you are a practitioner of the Healing Tao system who has come to this conclusion, or if this is your general opinion. I respect your opinion either way, I just don't know how much credence to give it for my own decision.

Hello, I'm new here and I believe I have to post here first, before another forum. I've been lurking on and off for a bit and I finally joined because I have a couple questions that I hope some people will help me with. I don't consider myself a taoist, but I have done a bit of taoist meditation and I play around (on my own) with bagua and taiji a little bit. I am finishing up listening to Michael Winn's Fusion 1,2 & 3 audio tapes and am planning on continuing with at least the next few formulas.