Simplicity Rules

Having done a few forms of Qigong, I often wonder about the relationship between simplicity and effectiveness of a form. For example, Chilel/Zhineng Qigong is often considered very powerful in China and is not easy or too simple with multiple levels and many exercises. Falun Gong was not necessarily easy to learn either, as it was my first every Qigong form. Over the years, I have done Fragrance Qigong and Spring Forest Qigong, which are really simple but seem to be a lot more effective than these more complex form. So, does complexity of a form always mean it is beneficial on a deeper level? Are there really simple forms that people here have benefited from as opposed to more complex/hierarchical systems? What is the point in doing these complex forms like Chilel or Flying Phoenix if simpler forms such as Spring Forest or Fragrance Qigong give same or greater benefit? Is complex always better?

What are you talking? Are you out of your mind? VMarco is the only elitist here. Basically there are two groups. Or three. One is Vmarco, his own isolated island. Second is the "intellectual" Buddhists who hijack and debate anywhere and everywhere and rightly so because of their "intellect" and then the third category, dubbed here as Vmarco's "followers" - who are "non-intellectual", who "cannot" debate and are simply pissed at the great enlightened Buddhists (who debate here out of sheer compassion for the rest of non-intellectual crowd - I must say I refuse to put Aaron, Goldisheavy and a bunch of others in this privileged category, sorry guys) an account of their own innate ignorance (I won't ask if this is beginningless like Maya or Avidya). A great example of supreme humility and total lack of condescending attitude is right here: And the biggest fool here is neither myself nor you, its Mal! Shame on you Mal, you made the below blasphemous statement earlier.. How dare you cover up your "non-intellectual" status and incapability at following pages and pages of "intellectual" discussion, with a simple comment such as the above? I completely disagree with Vmarco's interpretation of certain Buddhist concepts, but what do I know? Thirty-years of study and practice means nothing as long as you don't get into "intellectual" debates, right? It boils down to this: a. You are Vmarco b. If not, and if you don't agree with Seth and his friends and don't debate with them day in and day out, it naturally implies you are "non-intellectual", and by inference, you are Vmarco's follower (example, Scotty who agreed with Vmarco on everything) c. You are with Seth, debate all the time but end the argument in agreement with them, you are a Buddhist intellectual. Did I forget the "respected" Non-Buddhists here? Marblehead seems to be the token non-Buddhist here who the "intellectual" Buddhists can accommodate for purposes of political correctness. Now, I need to rush to enroll in a seminar - "How to become intellectual by debating endlessly on an online forum". Five, You have completely lost your mind. a. You don't get Buddhism and say that's not "your" thing. But, why is it not your thing? What better option do you have? Are you satisfied with a wonderful but useless and inferior brahmavihara status attained through your shamanism or whatever path which is sort of good, but lacks clarity and completeness like Buddhism? If you do, then thank me for I am telling you the limitations of whatever you're doing and take to Buddhism. b. You blame Buddhists of being insulting (at times I take?), but most of the time it is your own fault, if you are non-intellectual and do not want to debate Buddhist concepts in every thread (why shouldn't every thread be hijacked by Buddhism when it is the path with best clarity and advocated by intellectuals here?), it is your won fault. Stop blaming the compassionate Buddhists for your stupidity. c. And when Buddhists here seem to insult you, ridicule you, they are not actually doing it, they are just being metaphorical, and are doing it out of compassion to correct dangerous attitudes within you - such as Eternalism or some other clinging. They know what is best for you and will not permit bogus philosophical beliefs to be held by anyone here. On the other hand, Vmarco is insulting even when he is not for the exact opposite reason. Now decide, are you a Buddhist intellectual or a non-intellectual who is a vmarco follower? The third category of respected token Non-buddhist is already heald by poor Marblehead Good day Five

Several Buddhists here can also be accused of doing the same. Tibetan Buddhism, DO&E and its superiority over anything and everything has been brought up in threads where it was least relevant, like the thread on Medical Qigong. No one was banned for that. Buddhists here have a pattern to drag threads to any direction but our personal affiliation with Buddhism probably makes that acceptable to you. Why was a similar protest not lodged there? For a person of lofty spiritual experience, this is very unbecoming of you to rejoice someone getting banned and insist on kicking a fallen person harder. Eternalism is not a sin, and there is no standard definition of what Eternalism is or of its degrees of acceptability as a skillful means even within Buddhism. You got used to Vajra’s condescending tone and his constant derailing of threads and Buddhist discourse because you gave him enough time. It also helped that you got aligned with Buddhism meanwhile. It becomes clear here that your issue is not Vmarco’s tone or attitude at the basic level but the ideological disagreement you have with him version of Buddhism as against what you and your other Buddhist friends subscribe to. Is that reason enough to call for his suspension and clap and cheer his ousting? Who knows, if you gave VMarco time like Vajra, you would probably notice his consistence and begin to respect him in spite of his ‘condescending or absolutistic’ tone. The same can be said about a lot of Buddhists you sympathize with here. Some are as aggressive as VMarco, some others are passive-regressive who camouflage their attacks and accusations with lengthy parroted quotes (with a generous spread of the word compassion). Do we claim such subversive attacks are any less vicious than direct, possibly less sophisticated tone that you have issue with? In this very thread, the sneer about VMarco being transgendered is evident. Is it hard to see the tone and intent behind that comment? How is his gender of relevance to his discussion or a lack of that? This, IMO, amounts to gender discrimination against VMarco. You may disagree, but so do I with your definition of annoyance and attack. Calling him wanker, crybaby etc. can be termed personal attacks as well. Should you report yourself for those 'personal' attacks? Really? You respect people based on if they agree with you, especially on issues such as these? I have appreciated your posts in the past, but now wonder about your emotional maturity. This is purely an assumption. And probably baseless. How can one predict whether or not he would try and sell is books here before he actually does and penalize him for that? I have had no issues with him, Informer is another example. In spite of severe disagreements, Scotty does not seem to have personal issues with him either. If the Buddhist band does not jump at any one who disagrees, there probably are many more here who will admit to not having issues with Vmarco. There are also many who will admit to having issues with Buddhist bullies on this forum. So what, people need to learn to co-exist. His interpretations may seem bogus to you. So did some of Buddha’s rehashed ideas to Hindus from whom he lifted several key concepts of Buddhism. Again, as I pointed out, this is a covert case of ‘ban him because he speaks a lot, more than I can debate, and I don’t agree with him, so let me get him banned to silence him’. Dear Mr. Lomax himself has had issues in the past about several of your Buddhist friends and has even publicly complained but has been ignored. So your point is? Common, folks who claim direct realization of everything from Kundalini to DO&E don’t have a little patience and open-mindedness? It’s especially funny that the proclaimers of ‘emptiness’ and the inherent lack of ‘essence’ are so affected by supposed “personal” attack

Mal, it's a difficult hat to wear, that of a moderator. It's easy for me to comment on decisions taken but I understand making those decisions is not easy. It should not become easy. Thanks for taking time to respond to a newbie on the forum; on many others, the newbie and his views get ignored. You have a point, numbers matter, I guess?

Very well-thought suggestion. Worth pondering and discussing. Unfortunate you resigned, after reading your views, it sure seems like a loss

But why is Vmarco being singled out? Because some of the prominent voices here disagree with him ideologically? Are there not others like Vajra who have a similar tone and attitude here? Does the fact that some popular members agree with him ideologically influence how folks view him here? Or have people simply gotten used to his way of discourse? Given time, people will probably get used to Vmarco's way of discourse as well, perhaps? I am not talking cudgels for Vmarco or support his behavior but there are others who behave similarly but the mods seem to overlook them. This makes me believe that how a bunch of popular members perceive you is what determines how acceptable your behavior here is.

Both you and I agree here. Such attitude indeed comes across in your posts. We have seen that in your discussions with YaMu, Otis and even Twinner when they have disagreed with you/Buddhists in general. Sarcasm, long quotes from books do no reflect wisdom. LOL You just proved my point. Touche? Now who's being sensitive? Point out that your behavior is no different from those you complain against like a teenage girl and you get wiry and shrill? Chill, Mr. Cow, take it eazy for a bit, at least when you're not trying to judge who knows Dharma how much and how well. All I have seen so far from you are quotes from this guy and that guy and this sutra and that sutra. Or this guru or that Lama. Where is your personal experience of anything reflected in your posts? And because I do not parrot another's words like yourself, you cannot accuse me of tunnel vision or whatever else. I would rather remain silent until I have something valuable to share that is based in my own experience than parrot someone and pretend it to be my own experience. You've chosen to do it, it's your choice, an unfortunate one. Ok, so now is the time for another childish attach from you? I won't respond to you further for I realize you like the last word in an argument. I will give you that pleasure here.

LOL Mirror Mirror? You can't complain now for this is exactly what you have been doing as well. Those who agree with your Buddhist views gets a high five, and a bro pat. The ones who disagree get attacked, sneered at, are at the receiving end of sarcastic comments topped with a generous sprinkling of smilies. LOL call it karma? Sereneblue wrote something very meaningful on how a lot of bums view the Buddhists on this forum but where do the 'Buddhists' have any time to take notice?

Who else teaches this other than Max?

I think you got it half right. It's all about the Falun right? It's an orbit, what comes from his heart goes back in through the backside and that coming out of his backside enters the heart. A continuous orbit that spins for eternity. This is the secret of Falun Just my two and a half cents, no truth offered whatsoever.

No wonder the Buddhists on this forum are turning most heads away from Buddhism and Buddhist discussions. Believe me because Buddha said so, the Sutta says so, Namdrol says so, Thusness says so and also because I've realized it. Ask why should I - and the response is because Buddha says so and the Sutta says so. Why again should I believe what the Sutta says - because that is what I've realized and you have not. Such circular argument is what I see throughout this mega thread. The attitude of the Buddhists here is: either you're with us, or against us.

I first heard of Kunlun on this forum. Based on older posts archived (lots and lots of them), there seem to be different perspectives: - You just need the book, and can learn from it. - You just need one seminar with the Master Teacher and then you practice on your own - There are more seminars and levels. I can't find the book anymore so I hunted down a facilitator in Europe and took a class from him. He taught me Kunlun exercise Level 1 and Red Phoenix Level 1. But he tells me there are more levels, of Kunlun and Red Phoenix and other practices (Golden Dragon I think?) which are advanced. When I inquired if these levels are necessary, if they are part of a bigger, complete system, I did not get clear answers. So what really comprises of this Kulun system? Just a ball posture and Red Phoenix 1? Are other levels optional? Is there any write up on what each level is supposed to accomplish? Does anyone here use Kunlun as their primary spiritual practice? My background is Vajrayana Buddhism where right-view always accompanies right practice and theoretical/intellectual understanding are as important as the practice. I was told not to worry about what and how but simply let go. I would still like to learn more about this system in terms of what each level accomplishes etc. Any pointers or links?

Falun Dafa makes even the catholic church sound open minded! I mean seriously, why is such homophobia being tolerated here? I may not know about homosexuality first hand but there are several gay men and women in my Sangha and they are as compassionate and wise as us if not more in most cases. To equate them with liars, thieves, adulterers and murderers is nothing less than racism of sorts. Now doesn't Falun Dafa claim itself to be based on Buddhism? Even the Dalai Lama has changed his position on homosexuality off late, even if it is for political reason. But from a little of what I've read the Falun book, I see nothing similar to Buddhism/Hinduism, just some twisted tales and fear-monging. If you cannot even get rid of clinging to a simple aversion such as toward homosexuality based on erroneous social conditioning, good luck with progressing spiritually! Even though some point out that Falun Dafa's Qigong is useful, I doubt it. With a big cloud of such negative thought pattern associated with the practice, would it not at some level associate the practice with such philosophy, mentally and energetically? On a subtle level, it is really difficult to isolate the practice from philosophy, as the Qigong set was compiled by Li Hongzi, even if he simply stole them from various other existing sets; and hence the set has the footprint of his energy all over and more so of the many fanatic Dafa members. I am offering my truth and I am not offering you any money! Why should I?

The same happened in the 70s and 80s with many New Agers frustrated with Christianity turning to Hinduism and Buddhism. Agreed, the Eastern paths were more open minded, provided clearer and more scientific metaphysics and were way better than religions guided by blind creationist theories. However, like the samples we see on this very board, some got carried away with this infatuation and assumed everything and anything related to Buddhism to be true and perfect. Even a discussion of Buddhism, it's social shortcomings etc. became a taboo as Buddhism was "perfect", so also cultures derived out of it, with Tibet forming the primary example. An unresolved frustration becomes apparent when such an infatuated crowd presents before us an argument of Western Materialism vs Eastern Spirituality. Unfortunately, most who make such statements have no idea what they are talking about. I lived in Dharamshala for three years, in Srilanka for 11 months and in Nepal for an year and half. Like they say, the grass is always greener on the other side If you spoke to Tibetan Buddhist monks at Dharamshala, many of them described America as their version of Shangri-La. They all wanted to come here and preach "dharma", so they said. They were unhappy with what they were provided with in a third world country such as India. Many of them became monks because they knew nothing else! They did not have access to professional education, their worldview of anything outside Buddhism was next to nothing and they had no other skills. The option was to become monks! But, with access to education and a broader worldview, one is already seeing fewer Tibetans embracing monkhoods or even Buddhist religion. The 2009 Indian census presents these surprising numbers. When I spoke to these monks, their vision of America was exactly like what some people here portray Tibet to be - perfect. Since they are monks and lamas, they must be correct no? Both cultures have their own set of problems. Sometimes, the "spirituality" aspect of Buddhists is their biggest problem as history has shown. Even with all the supposed guilt or whatever that plagues Western society, there is a recognition of the problem at least to an extent, there are support mechanisms and there is awareness, of a wide range of issues and not only about thogal or mahamudra or tulku and tulpa. It does not take immense intelligence to conclude that Tibet is no Shangri-la and Buddhism is no perfect religion. Religion has not solved any issue for Tibet and it never will. One can argue endlessly about the joyful demeanor of the lamas and so on as seen on coverpages and videos but seriously, they are as much human as anyone else and elevating them to the pedestal is uncalled for. They do have something valuable to offer, but so do many others, like a swimming coach. Buddhism is better than a bunch of other counterparts, but there is also Hinduism, Taoism and others which offer similar cultural and philosophical outlook at a broad level. But, who can argue with blind faith? http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html http://www.tibetinfor.com/en/reports/women/women001.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoYIh-MdE4U&feature=related

http://www.somaticsed.com/ I have also been interested in the work of Thomas Hanna lately. I came across him first through his book: Somatics: Reawakening The Mind's Control Of Movement, Flexibility, And Health. His work is an extension of Feldenkrais Awareness Through Movement. This awareness-based approach really touched me in million ways. I have been a fan of Vinyasa, Vipassana (Goenka style) and Les Fehmi's work and this integrates all of it beautifully. It was rather difficult to find his video here in Europe but I managed to find a VHS tape of his exercises. Hanna deals primarily with the brain rather than the muscle groups themselves. He explains how the brain can be conditioned to hold unwanted muscular tension and teaches how to rewire the brain through gentle awareness and movement to release tension and restore the flow.

I have been doing only the last exercise mostly. The nature of vibration seems to get better refined with every passing day. I've so far had some very deep emotional issues resurface. At times, this exercise has had the effect of deep self-inquiry on me.

Valid observation. But will that practically happen? Probably not. The whole Buddhist idea is that of a bigger and better, can I say "real" path which was never taught by before (in Buddha's own words). So most Buddhists (at least the ones going preachy on internet forums) already come with this pre-conceived notion of "knowing it all" - may not be at a personal level but at the community or sanghic level. So they are here to "talk" and seldom to "listen" or "learn". Deal with it -K-. Not all are like this, but the loud ones certainly are. Perhaps their intentions are rather sincere, but there certainly is something called Buddhist conditioning, however much you try to deny that This is a tricky part. What is practical depends on one's whole philosophy towards cultivation. For example, I just read this, I guess this would be true to a philosophical Taoist as well? For him, 'practical' stuff would be a debate about an ontology or the nature of wu-wei rather than Five Sounds? So though it would seem like there is madness here, there is a method to it. And that is Tao?

Apech, I apologize for my behavior here. It really was not my intention to do so. Seeing the same derailment of various threads, sometimes through "compassion", other times through "dependent origination", gets a little tiring. And when you begin to insult teachers who are generously sharing here for no reason, it gets worse. Needless to say, I apologize for my behavior, specially to YaMu, as I contributed indirectly to further derailing of the thread. Some voices here are too loud and wordy, to the point of suffocating the quieter ones. But what can be done? So is Life, and I agree that the quiet one needs to continue being quiet and peaceful and not become one with the lynch mob and yell. I exactly did that, and so I apologize. Glad to see you are still exhibiting highest degree of "compassion". Keep it up!

Well, why are you stating the obvious? When you understand your shortcoming, why not work on it than talk here...endlessly and with compassion of course

Why do you require the moderators to regulate the script? Self-regulation was always an option before you resorted to whatever behavior you exhibited on this thread. Is this your way of calling "Mommy" for help after being a bad boy (or cow)? Be a Man dear friend Sorry, I must be delirious! I am asking Cow to be a Man? Point to note is - you derailed the thread, insulted the gentleman who was sharing some really useful information and decided to create a circus of similes and useless sneers. When you do that, don't expect your action to go unchallenged.

Is this in line with your samaya precepts? Are these approved by Anuttara yoga tantra? No Dalai Lama quotes? How many prostrations did you offer to get the "chugga chugga"? Enlighten us o Indra of Tushita heaven, are your words reflective of the dependent origination of all phenomena? Does Cow arise with Tao dependently or independently? And how much of name calling that you did on this thread arose dependently from Emptiness?

Shoo as in Cow, stop blabbering, climb your bicycle named compassion and go stray somewhere else... Forgot to add, "with compassion" of course! No Buddhist books on funny comebacks? I can refer some, I see you are struggling in vain with originality Cow on a bicycle, with a banner named compassion, that tries to run over one and all without a Buddhist badge, and the journey is a long one to Tushita Heaven's vacancy management! Tao cannot get better than this!