dragonfire45

Yes - In spite of your attempts at appearing humble, reasonable, sarcastic and funny - all at the same time - Yes. Sorry, better "luck" next time. Had to say this even at the cost of another "you don't know anything about Buddhism" rant You do sound like a teleevangelist and there are loads of them on tv, so I know when I hear one. Hey, they are not a rare breed and you have similar species on this very board. lol But not a good one though, for you focus too much on the minuses of Hindus rather than on the supposed pluses of Buddhism or Islam. But yes, there are all flavors of Teleevangelists ... some loud and jarring, some repetitive and trying hard to appear "intelligent, rational and filled with good humor" and then there are other kinds. The first are easy to notice and forget but the second make you want to listen to them for a while - at least to appreciate how hard they are trying to put up an appearance. Lo! you give them their due by engaging them in a conversation and letting them proclaim their truth. It also helps if you have nothing very serious to do at the moment and can afford some time. You don't lose a heck by giving that joy to some fellaw who will feel proud of having talked reason to one, having tried to lift them from the state of delusion etc. I am doing just that here ... not a Buddha, but certainly seems like my compassion is worthy of a Bodhisattva. What next? Bring it on

I like my deluded life! Lol... Like Vajra would say, Samsara is my Nirvana and I know of no suffering. I am neither a Advaitin prescribing to Vivartavada (sorry Dwai ) but rather extreme Parinamavada so I like it all...nothing is unreal or worthy of not liking here. There is no question of not liking.. I hope you're not making me your Buddha solely to put the "Kill the Buddha if you find him" quote to action. I am also a trained martial artist you know and can do more than debate. Just kidding... I don't want Sean's band of mods to come chasing after me... can't even complain to Leslie and get away this time

Hmm... conversation or preaching? Also, if you said "me and you" it would have been better, at least indicative of the fact that you will work on yourself with priority before uplifting the others - forcibly even if they refuse and say - I want to be a dumb, fantastic "lay" Hindu or a Christian? How is conversation between us supposed to help us learn if both of us are deluded? In just boosting your and my ego perhaps? But I like to grasp at my Self which I believe to be universal. What are you achieving by rubbing your delusion against mine? A spark of insight? Hmmm.... doesn't agree with even some amateurish Yogachara schools.

It does not! But you are the one worried about what is better than the rest, who is more "lay" than the others and so on! I am on the Oneness band - All Is One Remember, you are the savior and I am the deluded one to be saved. It's your reputation at stake and not mine!

Yeah likes of you - "here to save us all from delusion" (I am only quoting you) ... Replace "May the power of the Mind of three kayas" by Our Lord Jesus Christ, Self/Static by Satan, Non-Buddhists by "devil worshipping deluded pagans" and you can make a lucrative career as a Tele Evangelist.

You are a self-professed victim of delusion. You are a better judge of character?

That's sad to hear. I met them both about nine months ago and she seemed to be doing well! Her liver seemed a little weak based on the vibes she gave. I thought it was impertinent to state that observation in front of the renowned healer himself. Hope she gets better soon again. Not sure if its a coincidence but a lot of healers I have known have family suffering from bad health problems. Master Yao was a Taoist monk is what I have heard and has a student living/teaching in Canada. Don't know other details.

Hmmm.... you should read back what you wrote and self-analyze perhaps? I replied to every argument of yours and within reason but you came back with lame excuses. Lol, you will have to work with me a little here as I am a fan of David Icke! So I also have two takeways here: - Vajra and co don't represent all or most Buddhists and their means here are hardly skillful. - Some words of appreciation for Dwai which he truly deserves - which he did not get so far, including from you - but for ridicule. Ok, I have some questions on your advice and how it relates to Buddhism. When you can respond and not react, come back for a chat. I like Persian Baklava by the way! Or is it Arabic? Doesn't matter right? Not Hindu and I still appreciate it and that's all matters. Be well and work on some meditation as well in addition to online forums and analyzing Lay Hindus.

Okay people, I sure have a delusional life and my xbox is not going to play by itself because of Prtatityasamutpada. I will divert my skill or lack of it to that ... good nightie everyone Drew, I got Qissage last night and must say it is good! A perfect short massage routine to address all the important meridian points. I was working on Trunk's list but that was a tad too many. My Sifu taught me a shorter sequence that seemed to work well but this is one is very good! I should probably try them in full lotus. Extremely well thought out sequence. I am planning to send a copy to my acupuncturist in Beijing - this seems better than his complicated routine

Nothing wrong with the forum. Just the means of preaching adopted by the likes of you is highly "skillful"

I thought Kamalashila said: If Dhamma is not understood once, teach again. If not, teach yet again. Teach till the dhamma is drilled deep and insight arises. That is the true mark of compassion. But you gave up on me already The hat of the savior ascends in a minute and descends the next? Coming back to my question - if you go back and read your posts all over again, you still think you have been skillful in conveying what you set out to? Note that I am not claiming to be skillful by any degree before you throw back the same question at me

Well, when you run out of valid arguments, you can accuse me of half-bakedness, not-bakedness or delusion. But a moment ago you were ready to end my delusion no? Gave up already? The only way to counter my half-baked beans is through your full-baked beans. Jeez, its time for dinner!

Again, baseless conclusions. Same Buddhism has been called passive and averting from life by people but you accuse such of not understanding Buddhism. Hindus have the same complaint no? Vajra is not a Hindu and the statement I made here is what he is quoting here! Namkhai Norbu writes many such fantastic stuff in his books! They are not Hindus! I never denied Hindus have some fantastic theories. But are Buddhists lacking any? The example is right here, but you choose to ignore and say Vajra does not represent all Buddhists. Hello! Namkhai Norbu does (my greatest respects for him...just using him as a reference). He is saying Buddhism was brought here from another Universe. To divert the issue, you ignore the point in discussion and change track to ethical philosophy. Talking of skillful means! Very Arab-like, but unfortunately reflective of the current day

And this theory is based on? What you see day to day in India? Where and how have you examined lay Buddhist theories? What is your exposure to a lay Buddhist? Let's talk facts here and not couch conclusions. Hey, you concluded I was deluded. I didn't take such liberty. I only suggested that there is a possibility that you have cultural conditioning that makes you bigotted in your approach towards Hindus and resort to medieval Islam as the source of scientific thinking. My my, had the Moslems not invaded India, there would be no science but only math! Thank god for the brutal invaders. Ok, again, jokes aside, your conclusions are based on your conditioning and not hard facts. You would need to start right with the definition of a "lay" Hindu, what his cultural and philosophical backgrounds are etc. I believe I am not overstepping my limit in pointing out your prejudice as you have only targeted Hindus in all your posts and have not indicated that your accusations may apply in some degree to other religions as well. Your need to constantly go back to medieval Islam to find support for your argument only strengthens my case.

Not really! You talk from your frame of reference living in India where there are no lay Buddhists. Add to it the cultural conditioning of a Moslem upbringing - selective bias against everything Hindu while trying to go back in time to appreciate the "scientific" outlook of the Arabs is proof enough! If Buddhism is close to anything, it is probably Hinduism as the current day Hinduism derives a lot of its elements from Buddhism as well. So when you harp endlessly on the intellectual deficiencies of the "lay" Hindu, Buddhism is to be blamed as much, thanks to the Buddhist elements present in cultural and religious Hinduism today. Talk of Buddhists - there are so many Hindu elements as well and that steal away some credit you stubbornly give to the Buddhists for being rational, scientific and free from all kinds of dogma (yes, yes, there is a perfect explanation for Buddhism existing before the earth)

This is not just Vaj but many believe so. Some even explain how aliens and other solar systems and galaxies were known to Buddha/Buddhists (Mikalez said that I believe) based on these belief systems. I find this to be a fantastic theory as well. But nac will probably not, for only Hindu theories are fantastic and lay. This is science or cognitive science or something on those lines

It is your delusion to assume another to be deluded. How can you even know that till you have ended your own delusion? Are your means skillful until you have ended your own self-admitted delusion? Like the Venerable monk Husan Hua says, how can the blind lead another? You think you're capable of that role you want to force yourself upon yourself and the rest here? Ralis gets shouted at for decrying these delusional theories but your kind of attitude of "I will lift you from your delusion" makes every point of his valid. And your attempt at displaying humility by adding "yours and mine" does not help, it only reeks of pretention. And my interest is in the inner three tantras where Tathagatagarbha is not a seed which is to be worked on through ridding of delusions. So even that way, "end of delusion" is not acceptable to my Inner Tantra path. So, statements such as these - I am here to end your delusion - represent skillful means to you? Vajra seems better skilled for he is donning the role of Buddha-prototype Messiah at the least

Luck? So luck is acceptable in Buddhism? That is based on Karma or disposed by an intelligent being? Is it coincidence? If the means were skillful, what is the need for luck? The luck is karmic state of the preacher or the listener or both? You cannot make statements without explaining huh?

Well talking of bias, you make repeated points about Hindus being pseudo-intellectual etc. when their scientific contributions are much more than Persians or Arabs. While you refer back to "Medieval" times to find an excuse to express your appreciation for Islam, you speak as though all Hinduism is - is just a bunch of lay people believing in fantastic stories or pseudo-intellectuals. Where is the middle-way that you Buddhists so attest for in your observations? So Buddhists have no pet theories like Hindus? Moslems have no pet, unscientific theories? Is there a census which proves Hindus to have considerably more such theories than the other two? What is your point here? All I am trying to point out is that no ism is better than the other, no matter how hard you try to prove here otherwise.

I have to give you one for this. Nandasena, apparently from Bengal, explains the same in his gloss on the Hevajra tantra using some old school Mimamsa analogies. Makes the same point with colorful examples and for his skill, his apabhramsha of Sanskrit can be possibly forgiven. But, does this mean your actions by way of your posts have been skillful or more skillful than V and his troupe? And the indication of that would be widened and softened minds here, like mine?

What does that mean? Some higher mind in a Buddhist heaven? Seriously I don't get it! Only philosophy and no science here I guess? Protection as in bodyguard?

That's a blessing! Imagine, if you or vaj rubbed off on me. I would only be debating in bedroom and the chick would find a virile Taoist.

Another sure sign of Moslem mentality huh? Need more proof? So, on a related notem are you a practicing Moslem? How does Hinduism compare to Islam? Don't brush this off as irrelevant. I will explain its significance once I hear your position. Also, lay people are lay. Be it Hindu, Buddhist or Christian. They are just that. Of course, you can try to project your prejudice against Hindus particularly - probably stemming from a Moslem upbringing but it is rather ridiculous. How do you know I am not a lay Hindu myself? In India probably it might make some sense as Buddhism is not a prevalent religion but a choice. Someone who adopted as sophisticated a philosophy as Buddhism (or Advaita) would probably not be as lay as another Hindu who really was born a Hindu, knows nothing about his religion and metaphysics or spiritual inquiry is of no importance to him. Move to provinces of China, the lay Tibetans, Sri Lanka etc. where Buddhism is a religion in the sense Hinduism is in India and you will find the lay persons there as "lay" or even more "lay" than the Hindus. I believe you have no real basis for comparison based on your living in India where Buddhism is hardly lay. I hope you will not pont towards online communities to make your point here

Your intentions are pretty black and white and it will take more than a Buddhist to insult me By the way let's not talk of Hindus across the world. Let's talk of this forum. Buddhists have repeatedly posted so-called scientific quack papers like the one above. If a Hindu had done that, I would have kicked his ass too like I am trying to do in your case. Was there an instance? If not, why talk of the world? Let's keep our attention to this forum. And I have not seen you speak up before! Vajra has done this for pages and pages. About how only true Dharma is remnant of older Buddhas, how enlightened beings if at all in any culture are followers of Buddha on other realms etc. etc. I have not seen your rationality alert go on ever! And now it does finally, when someone actually lists an example and you talk of generalizations. Lame comeback

Oh yeah Like this attitude is going to get you chicks! Well, you probably hold that chicks are suffering and conditioning of mind...never mind