Apech

Just to bump my old thread ... another poem by Fernando Pessoa

I lie down in the grass

And forget all I was taught.

What I was taught never made me any warmer or cooler.

What I was told exists never changed the shape of a thing.

What I was made to see never touched my eyes.

What was pointed out to me was never there: only what was there was there.

Immortality in a spiritual sense is one route to end rebirth imho. That is my interest in mo pai, and longmen pai and other similar schools.

 

I want to live as frugally as is humanly possible and eliminate every possible expense, and work only enough to get by and still save a little bit of money for emergencies.

 

Working a 20 hour a week job, and getting on every assistance program possible seems like a good route for retirement for me. Owning property and using a moped for primary transportation, using foodbanks and foodstamps, and other assistance programs will eliminate a lot of major expenses for me.

 

I can spend the rest of my time enjoying the rest of my life and focusing on my goals or so my theory goes.

Your goals are very worthy I think.

I just suggest rather than go hunting for powerful teachings - work with what you've got now and as personal power grows you will find right teacher/teachings.

Boa sorte.

My goal is ending rebirth by any means possible, anything you have heard of along those lines would interest me.

 

I do what I was taught in longmen pai, a basic meditation. Right now I am lucky if I have time to get in one meditation session a week. Hopefully things will change in the future.

 

There are so many unproven systems and so many unproven teachers and so many unproven books, and so many frauds selling fake systems they made up to make a buck, I try to focus on schools like mo pai and longmen pai for this reason.

 

 

 

At last a proper discussion.

Ending re-birth sounds like a Buddhist definition of the goal of practice and not so much Taoist. Vajrayana does claim to have teachings which will achieve this in one life-time (e.g. Mahamudra/Dzogchen) but those who can actually achieve this are few and far between.

Why is this your goal? It is very ambitious. Maybe you should be more realistic and try to gain balance in your life (maybe not as well ???) but its worth thinking about why you have this aim.

still calling him a scamer what did he scam you out of? Ok just to put this into perspective. Eg asked you to cancel the money order and then you did. He told you to do this the instant he found out you sent it. Then not even 24hrs later you posted here and called him a scamer and accused him of being other people. So he stood up and said that he wasnt a scammer and that he wasnt these people and that you were lying and this apparently got him banned from here. So then it turns out that he wasnt thetaobum you then decide to find his number and call him?!?!

 

you called the guy a scamer accused of being multiple people got him banned now your calling him? just leave the poor guy alone you sicko! but whatever right its all justified as long thetaobum pays you back the end justifies the means right?

*** Moderation Message ***

User connectedtaoist has been suspended for 30 days for breaching the 'no insult' policy ... see highlighted text.

This is a contentious issue and while people are free to disagree and argue about facts they are not free to insult each other. Any user ignoring this will be suspended in a similar way.

Just for the record no-one has been banned as a result of these threads only suspended for a number of days after which they are free to return to posting.

*** Apech for Mod Team ***

Saw it rise last night. Almost by accident ... I was talking to someone outside in the evening and saw a bright light above the tree line. I thought it was car headlights or a plane ... then as I looked the moon disk appeared ... so bright and big ... such a privilege too see such a thing ...very bright later when walking home.

Prostrations are the first part of ngondro and involve also visualization and prayers. They are called preliminary practices but this is bit misleading as actually a kind elongated version of the first part of a complete practice which you work through.

If you are a biddhist then you should ask a lama for the right instructions and so on before starting.

I haven't completed 100k and am no longer practicing vajrayana but I completed 75k and can say they do involve several hours each day and are a major commitment.

 

 

 

 

 

My life has not been ideal and this is by my own making. When I was younger I wasted and destroyed my vitality through "unfortunate behavior". I still suffer from the scars and am still trying to salvage what I can of my health to rebuild a foundation for my future cultivation.

 

I can be an arrogant, outspoken, self-centered, insufferable know-it-all and it bewilders me every week that my students keep coming to my classes. I feel like a fraud sometimes to be the one instructing because my students shine with so much more virtue than the scraps of achievement I might have.

 

 

But Stig ... we still love you here on TTBs ...

PS. is 'unfortunate behavior' a euphemism for something really really naughty?

At near full the moon was stunningly bright last night. I walked home and could see perfectly even where there was no artificial light. I could make out features on the moon with naked eye. Amazing ... can't wait for tonight.

Hello Stig,

 

If I've taken it personally, it's because you're insulting and belittling thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who do not fall into your paradigm of what Taoism is. You are defining what Taoism should be and how it should be practiced and suggesting that people that do not follow this paradigm are not Taoists and shouldn't call themselves Taoists... simple answer and I think quite accurate.

 

 

I did not understand Stig to be insulting anyone but that this thread is more of an exploration of what can be included in the term taoism (sorry daoism) legitimately.

I don't think it is the practice (of Qi Gong or cultivation) that is important but perhaps the inner realisation or understanding which marks out the genuine Taoist from the dilettante. This can be reached in a number of ways including through intellectual analysis of the texts ... i.e. true philosophy as well as physical/energy work.

To someone who just reads Lao Tzu and likes the sound ... that's more or less the same as poetic appreciation ... but someone who lives their life informed by the profound nature of the Tao ... this is more like the original meaning of philosophy ... i.e. lover of wisdom ... where wisdom is a real thing and not just an abstract idea.

Electric gravity was ousted for insulting ?

 

Well what about more pie guy telling me to "Eat A Bag Of Dicks" ?

 

Is he going to punished ?

 

The same Rules should apply for everybody. This is very unprofessional to ban/suspend some members while others can say what they like without any repurcussions whatsoever ?

 

Very sad day for the tao bums.

EG wasn't 'ousted' he was suspended because he broke mod guidelines.

If you feel you have been insulted report the post using the report button.

Sorry mods

de nada

I found the thread via google search moved to the pit I guess

http://www.thetaobum...undred-dollars/

I moved the other thread to the Pit because it wasn't really Taoist Discussion and I thought all the issues around this had been fully aired. Also I suspended EG for his post due to his insults to you ... and the Pit is a bit freer and easier than this part of Board for this kind of thing. I thought if things continued the way they were then I would end up suspending a few more and I didn't want to get to that point. I realise there are innocent and guilty parties in this and its pretty obvious to everyone which way round that is.

People should be very wary of sending money to people unless they know and trust that person or its through paypal or ebay as suggested - it would also be a good idea to ask for evidence that the product actually exists I suppose.

Just read through this. Very interesting.

As someone has already said ... seven car accidents in seven years ... bloody hell!

Anyway glad I was part of putting this together. Maybe TTBs should interview more teachers it would be a great resource for us all.

it's time to have a rest

You are going to have a rest.

I am suspending you for 180 days for your other post.

there's a carrier wave from deep space and were headed into the thick of it

As long as its transmitting old Seinfeld repeats or Kung Fu the TV series I don't mind.

I'm curious at the hate directed at Ms. Le Guin's book, particularly because I have yet to see any substantive disagreement (e.g. naming a passage that she is held to have rendered poorly.) I'm wondering if she is not somehow serving as a symbol that infuriates certain people, since her primary fame is as a science fiction writer (which may somehow echo attacks against L. Ron Hubbard).

 

 

Wizard of Earthsea wasn't too bad from memory - although I did read it in my Tolkein starved youth.

I think you are right that she is being held up as a symbolic hate figure - which is unfair really.

Yes, the placement of awareness can precipitate physical movement, and I've sought for a long time to pin down the particulars in words. It does have to do, I think, with falling asleep and waking up, and with the movement of breath and the cranial-sacral rhythm. It is possible to realize action out of the stretch of ligaments and fascial tissue, and the place of occurrence of consciousness can initiate action in this way as a part of the movement of breath. I think I only had this experience initially because I crossed a line into observing things that normally happen when I'm sleeping, awake; that's the way it seems to me.

 

 

 

Falling asleep and waking up ... yes, yes yes!

The akh appears in the akh-et ... the horizon ... the space between day and night .. the twilight of dawn and dusk that's where consciousness transforms from what the Egyptians called 'wn'-being to 'kheper'-being ... that is being as a kind of passive absorbtion in the void (wn) and being as a becoming/transforming shape shifting self (kheper).

Its a cycle of becoming and return. Night is sleep, day is wakefulness.

Decibelle,

Readiness to act ... yes also ... the akh is about a kind of total responsiveness and the ability to cross the boundaries ... fluidity perhaps ... readiness ... awareness ...

The OP is a good reminder not to fall for the popular or commercial. But it has an element of throwing the baby out with the bath water. It is no surprise for instance that Ursula Le Guin is not a Taoist scholar and these are easy targets. It is helpful to have some rigorous and accurate scholarship on the subject of Taoism but there is something missing which is ... one would have thought that a source text like the TTC being inspirational to thousands if not millions of people across the western world would be held up as evidence of the wise and profound nature of Taoist teachings ... i.e. that they can cross cultural boundaries, be subject to some dubious translation but still ring true in hearts if so many readers. Ok their understanding might be limited and lack the nuance that serious study would give ... but still it is true that the Tao has made an impact in the West. This is something to be built on and it is perhaps a criticism of the 'serious' Taoists that they have left a vacuum into which Ms. Le Guin and others have stepped.

Buddhism suffered similarly in the early days but then it made serious efforts to spread authentic teachings. Now Buddhism is better understood in the west. So if the writer quoted in the OP is pointing the finger of criticism then quite a lot of that should rebound straight back on him.

Hello and welcome ... I'm looking forward to your contributions.

Well, the outline of it is in the opening scene of Lost in Translation. An excellent movie.

Really? I've got that on DVD somewhere ... Lost in Translation that is ... thanks for the reminder

I just deleted it and banned member for posting this.

To anyone who does want to see Scarlett Johansen's ass ... well sorry 'bout that ... you'll just have to go and ask her in person.

Now a serious comment.

There seems to be an implication in this whole train of thought about Taoism that somehow the cultural phenomenon of Taoism in China is more important than the core of Taoism, the Tao itself. This might be partly a reaction to the Tao being trendy and subject to New Agey type interpretation ... i.e. nice sounding words without any real understanding .... or it might be a kind of protectionism. Also to somehow to suggest that it is easier or lesser to pick up a copy of the TTC and get some meaning from it that is relevant to your life and understanding of reality than it is to pick up the robes and trappings of ancient China and follow their rituals, is quite frankly bizarre. And even more so to suggest that the cause or basis of those (mostly) Westerners who do become Taoists is anything other than the Tao itself, if one is a Taoist, then is illogical.

If a western taoist finds meaning in the Tao and puts this into practice then what are we supposed to call this other than Taoism????? And why isn't this perceived by the Chinese orthodox Taoist as a source of renewal ... rather than say ... 'oh another sympathizer????'

There needs to be rigor in thought and practice that is true ... so I am not saying just anything goes - but if Taoism has a future surely it is here with people like you guys.

Half the time, the banner looks like "The Tao Burns" to my weak eyes, and I think "You might be doing it wrong."

 

I'm guessing this site wasn't started in England though, huh? Cause then it would basically mean "The Tao Arses."

Or maybe that's the idea.

Lucky its not called The Arse Burns ... that would be bad.

I'm sympathetic because of my other interests/studies.

Some say less sym and more pathetic. (ha ha).

please continue to share

I agree. Keep posting Manitou - your poems or anyone's - all welcome.

I'm enjoying this thread.