Apech

When you say God it usually refers to a supreme being, the creator. I think there may be a contradiction between the idea of an Absolute and a 'being' who is that absolute. However if the person frames their view of God = ultimate source and that the nature of God is ineffable then I think this is legitimate. If by worshipping you mean valuing and by obeying you mean something like 'following the way of' then this is also ok without contradiction (in my view). The issue of the correct relation between the infinite and the finite is fundamental to mystical thinking of all forms. Anti-semitism arose because the Jews were an identifiable 'other' group amid the Christian world. They took the blame for most things for centuries (including the death fo Christ). This is just one example of one of the worst sides of human nature ... that is to blame others for one's own misfortunes. I suppose people are looking for final solutions ... although it is a chilling phrase ... but of course if you were even going to attempt a solution to anything you would first have to know the cause, its nature and so on ... i.e. properly understand the world. Even then the idea of 'final' meaning ... that's it for ever ... is probably also erroneous. In the TTC there are statements about the best way to govern. But there is a lot more besides. I'm not sure that governing is seen as a solution but more a case of 'if you are going to do it it is best to do it this way' ...

No I'm not, humans are, or can be, its agency.

Its stood the test of time to be sure and that makes it successful. But it has doen this without espousing the modern virtue of individual liberty. Unless you can produce examples where it has done so. In fact it is characterised as being about conformity to the social norm (although this may be a stereotypical view). is there evidence that it was a sense of individual freedom that made China survive? Yes there is a huge difference between laws which protect individual rights and freedom and those which limit the same. I don't really see what we would learn from the Chinese legal system ... but then I admit my knowledge of it is limited.

I think that this natural government by the Tao would be infinitely adaptable ... it would produce a variety of structures over time which met the needs of the present time. It would change without changing within itself. I don't think any such thing has ever existed ... not even close.

That is exactly what I am saying. It is not contradictory though. Contradictory means literally 'speaking against' ... as the Tao is beyond words/names it is not possible for it to have internal contradictions. people have been at each other's throats that is true ... this is because they do not act or live in accordance with the Tao. The crime of Hitler, Goebbels et al was their own failure to see that their 'final solution' was not only 'evil' it was stupid and pointless as well. They took all that they saw as wrong or bad in the world and lumped it on the heads of the Jews - this was because they did not understand history and preferred ignorance to intelligence ... because for certain people it is easier. they prefer prejudice because it is easier than being intelligent.

I just need a spouse. A young lady round the house, Cook, sew, clean and shag.

All ideologies are formulations around core concepts which arise in response to whatever conditions exist at the time. As such, because they are conceptual they are time limited in application. The Tao which is un-nameable is beyond concept and thus is not an ideology and is not time limited in application. The ideology of the 18th century is superseded by the 19th and so on. The conditions to which the ideologies are a response are partly social but mostly economic. Fascism in Germany arose or became popular because of the Great Depression and it is likely that if we were living then in Germany we might welcome the economic regeneration, agrarian reform and so on which the movement produced. Germany went from being weak, suffering the after effects of loosing WWI to massive economic strength. This much might have made many support the movement in its infancy. For Germany then maybe it was the right thing. The fact that the leaders of the Nazi party turned out to be crazed war mongering anti-semites is something about their collective failure to meet the continuing needs of having something approaching absolute power. Power corrupts etc. If we say that the Tao is beyond concept, is absolute. Then all things that arise must ultimately owe their nature to it. Even the Nazis. However because they (and practically everybody else) do not follow the Tao .. do not act in harmony with it ... then ultimately they fail. This is not because they fail to stick to an ideology but because they fail to recognise the flow of the Tao in all things and fall into mistaken concepts about the world and what is happening. We cannot say the Tao is absolute except the Nazis (supply list of others) we have to recognise that even the way the world works is because of the Tao, otherwise we lose the non-dual and fall into good/bad -ism of duality.

All governments fail eventually.

Chinese culture is the oldest continuous society on earth. Ok it has changed many, many times to become what it is now ... but interms of location, language and so on it is an unbroken thread. I don't think it can be said to have valued liberty and freedom very much during the last 5000 years and yet there it still is. The United States is probably the only country to founded on the principles of individual liberty and the rule of law. I'm not saying other countries have no embraced these ideas but they were not founded on them. Just a thought.

you know what I mean what I thought I might have said if I had said it.

A courier's road. monosyllabic full stop a road hyphen block.

clear, wondrous mind days... pointless as a dog that's spayed, or cat castrated. (sorry its just ... I don't know ... I need to change my medication .... )

5 more points for a christmas hamper or a holiday of a lifetime.

I would just like to point out that Viator is not a Satanist ... this was a joke. ... but I still don't have any points!!!!

Viator's:

This is yours:

Check out Off Topic.

I have to ask ... what does this mean?

I love the new mods ... I mean I've built little shrines to them ... flowers incense everything ... I want plus points for this.

What! How do I get points? Points mean prizes!!!!

You may not agree of course and that's fine with me ... but I find that there is a general mistake made which is to characterise our early ancestors as primitive in a pejorative sense. This is because we have been taught to value the sophistication which civilisation brings. In other words the more high sounding the words sound the better they are. This to me is just the wrong way round. I think that as we became more civilised (and I use that word to literally mean living in more and more culturally contrived ways) ... the more explanation we needed as to 'what its all about' ... that our history is actually a slow fall from being far more in touch with ourselves and the world and so on. At each step on this downward path we were compelled to produce more carefully developed 'ways' of regaining our innate knowledge ... to codify this knowledge in ways which related to the cultures we developed and with a number of themes ... the mystical being one ... (religious, scientific, philosophical being others) which we return to again and again to express and re-express. So whatever is expressed in the TTC for instance is actually the same knowledge which we have always held but which was/is being increasingly lost. If this were not the case then the Tao would be something constructed ... something you need an advanced degree in Taoist studies to understand ... this is not the case I suspect you may agree.

Quite nice town Huddersfield though I only passed through occasionally for work on my way from Manchester to Leeds and visa versa. Welcome to the board ... hope you enjoy your stay.

Oh no ... don't turn this into one of those threads

I've got a few plancks in my back garden ... so I went and measured them and they're def not the smallest things in the universe. So much for science.

All relationships have specific issues I think. Tell me a yin-yang relationship which doesn't have issues LOL. In fact that's almost the point in a way ... some people think compatibility looks like a kind a calm sameness or something ... but I think compatibility (between people in relationships) can look ... in fact probably should look very dynamic ... like a dance I suppose, and sometimes a fight. All else is a kind of abstract deception. Otherwise we are dead. If qigong, nei gong or whatever have any virtue then it is in dealing with a (possibly) infinite variety of relations and inter-relations, gay, straight and so on.