cheya

 

 

Hi, Yoda1.

Hey, cheya, saw your introductory post here when searching for "Frantzis".

Oliver

Hi Oliver,
Just out of curiosity (since you are into Frantzis's and Robert Bruce's work), have you checked out
Waysun Liao, or at least his book Chi: How to Feel Your Life Energy? This book, for me, is more about WHY you want to feel your life energy. Bruce's Energy Work is way more effective for me at the how part. But I know I may be back looking at Master Liao's DVDs again in a few months or years. I had the Energy Gates book and video on my shelf for TEN YEARS before I started doing the exercises two years ago. They have been amazing for me, and I know I'm still just scratching the surface. Master Liao's teaching novel, Nine Nights with the Taoist Master, has been a real doorway into the Tao Te Ching for me. Just curious if you have checked out the third of my current "gurus". (Of course, two outta three ain't bad!)

All the best

 

 

Interesting, I swear one of my ears is slightly higher...

How exactly does balloons up your nose fix this though?

I have a general idea, and maybe someone who knows more about it will add more.

A butterfly-shaped bone called the sphenoid goes through the center of your head, accessible on the outside only at the temples. The main body of the sphenoid lies mostly behind and somewhat above the sinuses. Actuallly, checking a skull here, the top back of the throat is largely sphenoid, and the back and outsides of the eye sockets. Looks like spines from the sphenoid stick down into the top of the soft pallette in the backof the throat too.

If the sphenoid's sitting at an angle, so will be your ears and eyes, and the sides of your brain compartments will be of unequal volume. Most of the cranial bones articulate with the sphenoid, so if it is out of balance, so is every other bone. I guess the skull would be kind of torqued. Cranio sacral practitioners move that bone in various mostly indirect ways, but it's difficult to get any effective leverage. (It could also be so delicate you would not WANT to get any effective leverage!) Inflating balloons in the sinuses, or in the nasal canal itself, however, could definitely apply some leverage. It would expand the sinus, pushing against...what? Looks to me like a balloon that would not seriously interfere with breathing would press backward and upward against the sphenoid, the part of the bone accessible looks like it's about 45 degrees slant going down and back.... I'm gonna have to check this out with some folks who are more cranial savvy than I am...


 

 

 

Yes, just the same bulbs they use for blod pressure cuffs. It IS jerryrigged, and that's the annoying part. I think a better setup could be invented, but I've never put my mind to it too much.

The bones only move to the degree that you're messed up. The more messed up, the more they move.

I use party balloons to get more pressure, but most people just use finger cots.

Changes are easy to measure. I know the shape of my own skull, how it feels. I didn't have any particular problems, just wanted to see what would happen. My hearing got a let better, and I can move a lot better and more easily.

Thanks again, Agarta!
And one more question. Did you have a stategy re where to put the balloons (on the website they talk about evaluating the skull.) Did you just do everything you could reach? Do you need to know where the sinuses are specifically?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but this REALLY got my attention!

Thanks

 

 

I am a trained nurse assistant. It's easy to know when to stop--you stop when you're using all your strength, ad the bones won't move any farther!

No, you stop when the bones move. In the beginning, they usually move pretty easily, or at least they did with me.

I was unemployed, hundreds of miles from the nearest practitioner, and had already had major movements in my skull bones naturally. Since I had been trained as a nurse assistant, I knew how to operate a blood pressure bulb. The rest is, as they say, history.

Yes I am quite insane. However, I was able to make it work. I don't necessarily recommend everybody to do this without some serious forethought and practice.

Thank you, Agarta!
How amazing. Are you talking about blood pressure bulbs like on a blood pressure cuff? Did you gerryrig something from a blood pressure cuff? What did you use for balloons?

How did you get major movements from your skull bones naturally, and how do you measure changes? Did you have a particular problem you were working on? Did the changes translate into the rest of your body, like balancing spinal curves or leg length differences?

This is so interesting! One of the things that got my attention on Howell's site was a woman's testimony that the cranial work had caused remarkable improvements in her vision. And how bout the bit that "the brain expands to full capacity"!!!

 

 

 

I did the balloons on myself, but I had years of experience with a neti pot, and a lot of practice with blood pressure bulbs. I got excellent results, but it's like anything, the intention you approach it with has a large effect on the results.

.

Hi Agharta,
I HAVE to ask! How did you do this? Are you a doc or medical person? I've done finger work and many neti pot treatments, but that in no way makes me feel like I could inflate little balloons up my nose. Blood pressure bulbs???? How did you know when to stop? I am so curious!

 

 

 

hi

in his book about prostate orgasm plato spoke about a therapy called ncr. here are some links:

http://www.drmccarty.com/NEURO%20CRANIAL.htm

http://www.ncrdoctors.com/

did anybody here tried that yet? any experiences about it?
unfortunately it only exists in usa and canada, not in europe and the treatment also isnt that cheap. so i was thinking about alternative methods to relax the skull plates or the seams between the skull plates.

i remember bk frantzis spoke in one of his books about it, too. its a part of a technique he calls spine strech.

so, are there eventually other methods out there which you can do on your own to unlock the skull plates?

Hi Laotse
As a bodyworker, I never heard of NCR, so I tracked it down. The before and after pictures are pretty impressive, some major changes after as few as four treatments. But the TREATMENTS!!! They put little balloons up your nose to inflate them in the sinus cavities to move your sphenoid bone around! Eyow!

Other possible strategies.... Cranio Sacral technique can address sphenoid balance, but maybe not as effectively as NCR. As far as I remember, Frantzis just talks about intentionally relaxing the cranial plates when doing the spinal stretch.

St. John Neuromuscular Therapy (NMT) has some novel treatments for cranial rebalancing, and
osteopaths probably have some effective treatments as well. Rolfers will work up your nose (and mouth) with their pinky fingers to affect the connective tissue in your head and rebalance that way. Personal experience, this threatment hurts a lot. NCR's balloons may be more comfortable! That has got to feel really weird, though, balloons expanding n your sinuses!

You can work your own (external) cranial fascia by gripping your hair (gently!) and pulling. When the fascia relaxes, you can pull harder by just tightening your grip. When you're completely comfortable with pulling straight out, you can turn your hand to torque the fascia. Do it all over your head. (Best time for me is waiting at stoplights. Does look a little weird....) This really improves blood flow in the cranial fascia. Improves hair growth. If you don't have hair to pull, you can press and push adjacent fingers in opposite directions. Not as effective as pulling on the hair, but some men in my NMT class had returning hair regrowth in their balder spots using that technique. Oh yes, also, you can pull on and torque the ears � again, gently! You'll know you're being effective when your scalp or ears tingle and get hot due to the increased blood flow.

That's all I can think of...

Anybody else?

 

Hello,

 

I wanted to read the rest of the forums.

 

I am from Germany and practice mostly Outer and Inner Dissolving by Bruce Frantzis after having started out with breath meditation, NEW energy work and Small Circulation/Microcosmic Orbit.

 

Regards,

Oliver

 

Welcome Korpo!

TaoBums is where I found out about NEW! Glad to see you over here! Hope you'll chime in on some of these discussions, as I've learned a lot from your posts over at astraldynamics.

 

Cheya

 

 

I've been practicing Tai Chi (sans it's Taoist underpinnings) since the past 5 odd years (with earlier background in Hard Martial Arts) -- first via (Dr. Paul Lam's) videos on the 24-forms and then later from my present teacher George Bolger (who is a student of Master Liao, Oak Park, IL).

 

My special subject of interest is in the phenomenon of Chi (and the various camps about what it is) from an academic perspective. I also study the similarities between Taoism and India's (my country of origin) Vedic traditional philosophies (needless to say, I see a huge volume of overlap). This comparative study helps me understand each of the two systems better (complementary) and hopefully helps me navigate the often confusing waters of the Spiritual aspirant a little better.

 

 

Hi Dwai,

 

Welcome!

As part of your interest in the phenomenon of Chi, have you read Master Liao's books (Nine Nights and Chi: How to Feel Your Life Energy), and also have you checked out the free feel-your-energy tutorial at astraldynamics.com? These resources have been tremendously helpful to me both in chi practice and in understanding WHY I'm practicing (besides the fact that I just love it!)

 

I'm interested in how your understanding of the Vedic tradition is helping you to understand the Taoist traditon and the phenomenon of chi. Care to expand a bit?

 

All the best,

Cheya

Ok..nice replies..to sum up for myself..real awakening "overrides" any desire you might have. So for the most part, awakened people don't sit around thinking "I want,I want,I want" etc.

 

There is nothing wrong with that..what "The Secret" talks about..but basically all the desires or manifestation of desires in the world don't compare to authentic awakening(my guess).

 

Cam

 

 

To me, it's not that real awakening overrides desiring. It's more that the perceptual mode of desiring blocks the perceptual mode that leads to awakening.

 

The Law of Attraction keeps you focused on what you want to attract, your desires.

The Tao Te Ching, (Chapter 1, various translations) says

 

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.

Ever desiring, one sees manifestations.

--------Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English, 1972

 

So the unwanting soul

sees what's hidden,

and the ever-wanting soul

sees only what it wants.

--------Ursula LeGuin (1998)

 

Send your desires away and you will see the mystery

Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation

--------Talbert McCarroll

 

 

To me the desire/desireless, manifestation/mystery conundrum seems a bit like looking at those pictures of figure/ground reversals: you can either see a vase, or the profile of a woman. You can't hold both interpretations in your perception at the same time. If we can see EITHER the manifestation OR the mystery, but not both, it sounds like we won't get very far in perceiving the mystery if we allow ourselves to be

seduced by our desires, especially, perhaps, the successful attainment of those desires promised by The Secret.

 

Looked at this way, focusing on The Law of Attraction looks like a massive U-turn on the path of realization.

 

Cheya

 

My experience with this has been like so: I want something. It churns and churns inside. I get it. Temporary bliss. Then I want something else. There's that wanting again. Repeat. Every time I give into that wanting, it grows little stronger by force of habit. Just like rubbing on stone: one rub doesn't do much, but a lot of rubbing and you have a groove. It may become such a habit, like driving to work, that I don't even need to pay attention to it. My mind can wander and dream about all the things it wants while my body chases after them.

 

 

 

Pondering my continuing discomfort with the "technology" (which definitely works!) taught in The Secret,

I keep coming back to these lines from the first chapter of the Tao Te Ching (various translations):

 

 

 

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.

Ever desiring, one sees manifestations.

--------Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English, 1972

 

So the unwanting soul

sees what's hidden,

and the ever-wanting soul

sees only what it wants.

--------Ursula LeGuin (1998)

 

Send your desires away and you will see the mystery

Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation

--------Talbert McCarroll

 

 

So it seems The Secret is teaching us to master manifestation.

Taoist classics and practice focus on perceiving the mystery.

 

 

Cheya

Speaking of not seeing doctors for decades, I have not seen a dentist for a couple. I recently chipped a molar and am a little concerned, I can see the layer under the enamel, dentin?

 

I have been sending chi and blood to the tooth, but I would love to hear any other suggestions.

 

 

Only thing I've ever come across in repairing decayed teeth, ie remineralizing exposed dentin (which sounds like what you'll need to do) is in the book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston Price, DDS. It's an old book, but absolutely fascinating, in that Price studied the effect of modern foods on the health and physical structure of people in 13 primitive tribes from around the world. Then he applied what he learned to dental health of school children in the US. See chapter 16, "Primitive Control of Dental Caries", starts on page 282.

For some time I've been a bit uneasy with The Law of Attraction expressed in the Secret, feeling that it isn't in harmony with Taoist perspective, or other spiritual approaches. This of course doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but...

 

I found this on the net, and it has helped me clarify the issues, if not the answers...

It starts with

 

"The Great Way is broad,

Neither easy nor difficult.

The Supreme Way is not difficult

If only you do not pick and choose."

 

Lots to ponder on here....

 

 

How to Live in Harmony with the Tao

 

[Exerpt below]

 

"Introduction

 

The Great Way is broad,

Neither easy nor difficult.

 

This essay is an effort to clarify Faith in Mind, a text of seminal importance to Ch'an, Zen and Taoism.

 

The essay does not paraphrase or explain so much as illustrate how Faith in Mind can be applied to everyday life in the modern world. In this way, the essay follows the author's intention, which is to guide the sincere person in her quest to live in harmony with the Tao.

 

The advice given is not designed for passive consumption.

 

You have to live it.

There is no shortcut.

 

Only when you apply this in your life, will you gradually begin to understand.

 

 

How to Live in Harmony with the Tao

 

Cheya

I havn't read the book you mentioned, and I don't really know if this is even relevent to your question, but I

 

have had the experience of feeling uncomfortable energy sensations....always around other people though.

 

-

 

 

The discomfort I'm noticing seems to be related to opening areas that have been blocked energetically. It feels achey, mostly and a lttle twitchey. Then gradually that goes away and energy seems to move through the area much more easily. I'm getting more chi movement/feeling during chi kung practice and bodywork practice as well. It feels like in my chi practice, I've worn some energy ruts where the energy moves very easily, kind of like erosion ditches, but the energy moving so fast in those areas kind of skips adjacent areas that have not been included in the flow. This isn't about meridians, but more like the size or volume of the flowing energy, maybe more like the diameter of the hose, if you will. Doing Robert Bruce's stirring, brushing, and bouncing techniques seems to have increased the volume of the flow, how much body territory is included in the flow. I've been doing Frantzis' Energy Gate practices for a couple years, and the mobile body awareness and tactile imaging have definitely enhanced the chi feeling I get from those practices, which I'm still doing. At this point, I don't think the astral dynamics exercises are a substitute for traditional chi practices, but they certainly are helping me do what Waysun Liao recommends, feel your life energy as a path to the Tao.

 

Anybody found particular Astral Dyn techniques especially helpful, palpable, or interesting?

 

An example of what's happening to me. Stirring and brushing on the outside of my feet starts sensation which moves up the outside of my calf into the lateral knee, a place I've had pain and postural distortion for years. Not moving the knee at all, the energy kind of bubbles around in the area that I've had pain before, causing aching and twitching, that seems to be lessening the more often I do the practice. Hard to describe, but it feels like the energy is clearing the area out. Earlier attempts to run chi trhough the area directly have been only marginally successful, and I'm very taken by the ease at getting energy flow and bubbling at the knee by stirring and brushing the feet.

Is anybody else using Robert Bruce's free energy tutorial to increase their ability to feel chi sensation?

I'm experiencing rapid enhancement in energy sensitivity, with a direct effect on my practice. While much of the sensation is interesting/pleasurable, some of the sensation is pretty uncomfortable, mostly in areas I know have been blocked, mostly at night. Can your ability to feel energy movement increase too fast?

 

Astral Dynamics/NEW Energy Ways

Ouch!

 

who wrote that one [Chi: How to Feel...]?

T

 

Both books were written by Master Liao.

 

I know, Nine Nights is pricey, but I haven't regretted the expense for a moment! Both books have really fed my practice, and my motivation to practice. I don't know if advanced practitioners would find them as helpful....

 

Night Nights is Master Liao's translation of the Tao Te Ching embedded in a teaching novel. Chi: How to Feel Your Life Energy is a very simple non-fiction book that tells you why you're cultivating chi, and how to start doing it in a very simple straightforward way. So simple, in fact, that I was initially sorry I'd chucked out $25 for the book. But it's simplicity is a big plus, and I have 3 people wanting to borrow the book already. I'm going to reread it for about the fourth time before I start lending it out! Nine Nights I'm not lending! They have to buy their own! (Yes, I do need some work on my attachment!)

 

Cheya

 

How do you guys apply Daoism to everyday life?

 

Great question! It's bringing out some great links and suggestions.

 

Two books by Master Waysun Liao have been very helpful to me in this regard: Nine Nights with the Daoist Master (especially Delux edition) and a related book, Chi: How To Feel Your Life Energy.

 

I hope you'll let us know what you're finding helpful.

 

Cheya

I'm an off and practitioner of t'ai chi and chi kung (prefering the Wade/Giles Romanization). Recent stress and resulting health problems have guided me back to practices in which I used to be immersed. I'm a little rusty but it sure feels good. I am a chi junkie!

 

I found you guys Googling "Tao Gong" as I am also reading and thoroughly enjoying Waysun Liao's Night Nights with the Taoist Master.

 

Hi Qijunkie,

That's how I found TaoBums too!

I've read Nine Nights about 4 times now, and I just keep going deeper. It's so simple on the surface!

 

Are you doing any of Master Liao's practices? I've been doing Frantzis' Energy Gates practices and a form of walking chi gung for a couple years now. I've got the Tao Gong DVD and will start adding single forms practice as soon as the DVD arrives.

 

Anytime you want to talk about the book, trade questions (don't know about answers!), what you're learning, how it's affecting your practice, I'd be into it.

 

Cheya

Hi again, evgeny,

 

Opps. I got the DVD titles mixed up.

The Tao Gong video has been helpful. It was the Tao Journey DVD I was a bit disappointed in, when I wrote:

 

"I watched his vi [Tao Journdy] DVD, and give mixed reviews. The review from my mental side: it was largely a reiteration of what was covered in Nine Nights, and his Chi-Life Energy Book, and not nearly as well presented . The energetic review might be different ...the next day, it seemed my practice was quite enhanced in terms of feeling the chi."

 

Cheya

"And read the Nine Nights - I hope the one by Master Liao, whose school I attend."

evgeny

 

Hi evgeny,

How long have you been studying with Master Liao?

I watched his Tao Gong video, and give mixed reviews. The review from my mental side: it was largely a reiteration of what was covered in Nine Nights, and his Chi-Life Energy Book, and not nearly as well presented . The energetic review might be different ...the next day, it seemed my practice was quite enhanced in terms of feeling the chi. So, whatcha think? Could Master Liao possibly broadcast Te to viewers of the video? Or is this just a really juicy spring and an overactive imagination?

 

Cheya

Thanks for the welcome, Trunk!

I'd be very interested in what you think of the book if you check it out.

 

I checked out AlchemicalTaoism.com. Great links, especially the chi-bodywork connections. I've already started playing with the ball massage. The links to Plato's original descriptions didn't seem to work but I got to it with Google cache.

 

Cheya

Hello from Cheya

 

A few months ago I was exploring my life goals/purpose, and after much searching I came up with something that truly surprised me:

"Follow the chi 'til it leads to the Tao."

 

Those words touched a deep longing, even though I didn't really know what following the chi to the Tao might mean.

 

Then, last month I found a book that gives a road map for doing exactly that! Waysun Liao's book, Nine Nights with a Taoist Master, has inspired my chi practice and sent me looking for Tao friends on the path. For me, intuitively, feeling the chi has always been the most important thing, so I'm very excited to find Master Liao's specific instructions for developing the feeling of life energy and using it to connect with the Tao! Tao Gong! What a concept!

 

I've been practicing mostly daily for about 3 years, currently doing some Frantzis Energy Gate exercises, along with mix and match from earlier teachers. Also, walking my dogs across the hill behind my home, a walking chi practice has emerged that seems related to the energy pump effect I get from swing arms and Energy Gate practices. Movement is an energy pump! Thinking stops it! (Okay, I know: DUH!) Having been totally focused on staying with chi feeling, now it's time to move it with my mind, and also to generate it (join it?) strongly without needing to move to maintain the sensation.

 

That's where I'm at right now, looking for friends/teachers/info/resources focused on feeling the chi life energy and actually experiencing the Tao.

I certainly can't call myself a Taoist or inhabit Taoism as I've usually found it. I'm not into ritual, or social gatherings to figure out how to do religion right. (Not that I'd find any of that stuff on a site called TaoBums!) But I sure do like the translation and interpretation of the Tao Te Ching I've found in Nine Nights. That kind of Taoist is a whole 'nother story. Literally.

 

Otherwise, I'm a bodyworker, writing a book on sustainable health care, into nutrition, detoxification, light therapy, color puncture, and natural healing strategies, Osho Rajneesh, Carlos Castenada, and other stuff I'll remember and wish I'd included right after I push the send button.

 

Many thanks to all those who had the vision to put this site online.