Wayist

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Posts posted by Wayist

  1. Posted · Edited by Wayist

    I don't know where to put this, on what section of the forums, so I thought that I'd put it here. Apologies if it's posted to the wrong section of this forum.

     

    First, I've described Lao Zi as riding on "a Water Buffalo", I'm not sure that any body really cares, but most of the discussions of the animal that he was riding on, say that it was an OX. 

     

    OK, I wanna ask about Daoist "Immortals".  When you write using this word, are you meaning people who literally have become so at One with the Dao, that they live, literally FOREVER? THEY DON'T DIE.  Or hundreds of years, or thousands of years?  I realize that to ask "how does one do this?" Is almost comical.  I've read one of Red Pine's books about traveling in the Wu Dang Mountains in China, seeking out Daoist hermits, but a hermit, is a way different thing, then an Immortal. Or it seems so to me!  I'm not in any way mocking that one might be able to live to a very, very old life, but I guess that I do not understand what the word "Immortals" used in a Daoist sense actually means. Might someone here be able to speak to this, and help me to understand it?  Thanks,  Wayist

     

    P.S. This seems like it might be a very lonely kind of life, if one lives forever, with only a few others to share this with, but that's just me.

  3. Posted · Edited by Wayist
    typo

    NASA saw an asteroid that barely missed Australia 2 days ago. In a report from NASA, via The Palomar Observatory, an asteroid came very close to the continent of Australia two days ago. It was not seen until it was right on top of Australia because of the brightness of the sun's light. Another asteroid is supposed to *impact* the earth on November the 2nd, 2020. For those who care, that's one day before the American Presidential Election!  lol  I did not see the size of this asteroid in the report that I read, nor where on the earth that it might impact.  One would think that this would be all over the news, but the only place that I've seen it reported on, is here on the internet. NASA has a website that follows space objects (or at least most of them!) coming near the earth, and it's mentioned there. I'm sorry that I did not get the URL for that website. This sounds like a movie, but I assure you, that's it's real!     Peace,  Wayist

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  4. Posted · Edited by Wayist

    I hope that I won't hurt anybody's feeling's asking about this, here on 'Dao Bums'.  I've been trying to join the 'Original Dao' forum for 2 or 3 weeks now. I seem to be on the forum itself, but I can't sign out, or write anything there, nor reply to anything either. I would like to participate there but it seems that I have (maybe) two different user names.  I see a lot of the same names there as I see here, so I was wondering if anybody might be able to help me join the forum there, so that I could actually write and be a part of the forum itself.  Thanks for your help!  Wayist

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  6. Posted · Edited by Wayist
    typos

    12 hours ago, Taomeow said:

    The Four Heavenly Ministers( 四御 Siyu ), including the Great Jade Emperor ( 玉皇大帝 Yuhuang Dadi ), the Middle Heaven Great Emperor of the North Pole Star of Purple Subtlety ( 中天北極紫微大帝 Zhongtian Beiji Ziwei Dadi ), the Great Heavenly Emperor of the Highest Palace of Polaris ( 勾陳上宮天皇大帝 Gouchen Shanggong Tianhuang Dadi ) and the Imperial God of Earth ( 后土皇地祇 Houtu Huang Diqi ), are four deities in charge of all things in Heaven and Earth under the Three Pristine Ones ( 三清 Sanqing ). The Great Jade Emperor is the master of the ten thousand spirits. The Middle Heaven Great Emperor of the North Pole Star of Purple Subtlety, as the Stellar Sovereign ( 星君 Xingjun ) of the Purple Subtlety Constellation, is situated in Middle Heaven ( 中天 Zhongtian ) and is the master of all the stars. The Great Heavenly Emperor of the Highest Palace of Polaris, which is composed of four stars left of the Imperial Polar Constellation, is located at the Pole Star as the pivot of heaven. The Imperial God of Earth is the center of Heaven and Earth; it had a a male form before the Tang dynasty and acquired a female form during Wu Zetian's reign. Queen Pan of the Song Emperor Zhenzong built a temple on Mt Song for the worship of the Great Holy Earth Queen of Mysterious Heaven ( 后土玄天大聖后 Houtu Xuantian Da Sheng Hou ). Emperor Hui, in the seventh year of the Zhenghe Era, honored the spirit with the title "Imperial Earth Queen Who Receives and Follows Heavenly Laws and Promotes Kind Virtue" ( 承天效法厚德光大后土皇地祇 Chengtian Xiaofa Houde Guande Huang Diqi ). Since then, the Earth Goddess has always been depicted as a female. Since the Song dynasty, owing to the promotion of the Jade Emperor in position and function in the Daoist pantheon, he is often classified in some Daoist scriptures outside of the Four Heavenly Ministers, which are then listed as the Heavenly Emperors of the four poles of the cardinal directions. They are called the North Pole Emperor of Purple Subtlety ( 北極紫微大帝 Beiji Ziwei Dadi ), the South Pole Emperor of Longevity ( 南極長生大帝 Nanji Changsheng Dadi ), the Heavenly Emperor of the Supreme Ultimate ( 太極天皇大帝 Taiji Tianhuang Dadi ), and the East Pole Emperor of Blue Essence ( 東極青華大帝 Dongji Qinghua Dadi ). Contemporary Daoism has returned to the pre-Song identification of the Four Heavenly Ministers.

     

    Taomeow, It seems like you have been around Daoism for a long while. Had you heard the story before about "the purple cloud" that was surrounding Lao Zi as he traveled to leave China?  Some of what you wrote I understand, some of it, I do not. Do you believe this purple cloud story?  Might you be able to explain it to me, as a beginner, and what it might mean to the Lao Zi/Dao de Jing story. I hope that I'm not trying to simplify this too much!.  Thank you to all who wrote about this!  Peace, Wayist

     

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  7. Posted · Edited by Wayist
    typos

    I *think* that the Lao Zi might have been *an oral tradition* in the beginning (before it was written down). Yes, I believe that Lao Zi was a real person. I've been intrigued by the idea of him being a Court Librarian during the Warring Years, and simply tiring of his part of the human race, and riding off on a Water Buffalo, towards India (perhaps), when he was met by the person (a border guard?) who convinced him (Lao Zi) to write down what became the Dao de Jing.  I've read a lot of Daoist literature, some of which tells us that there was a purple (the color of majesty, I suppose) "cloud" that was around Lao Zi, as he traveled. I find this interesting, and if he (Lao Zi) WAS a kind of shaman, this might be a kind shamanic manifestation. This is all that's written down about Lao Zi in my opinion, and there is no  kind of history (written, or otherwise), that is for sure about any of this.  Peace,  Wayist

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  8. Posted

    I want to thank everyone who has written so far, to perhaps answer my question(s). Honestly, I feel like I'm a Beginner. I care about Compassion, and being Open to the Dao. That's where I am right now. I've read a lot from the DDJ, some I understand, and some I do not understand (or maybe only a little bit). Perhaps that will come, or it will not. I feel that it is important to acknowledge people trying to communicate with us, and to say "Thank you" to them. I pretty much think that there are very few "accidents", here on this level. We are where we are. I would like to go further, into investigating the Dao, that's why I'm here.  Peace, Wayist

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  9. Posted

    16 hours ago, Taomeow said:

    If you know the importance in the traditional Chinese culture of the concept of lineage, the point becomes somewhat moot.  A lineage is real, and a particular master down the line who embodies it most fully may become famous, venerated, etc.., without having invented that bicycle.  It's sort of like a collaboration between individual accomplishment and the accomplishments of all masters that went before.  Rarely are they surpassed, but occasionally a sage may come to encompass them all -- to the extent that his or her own personality dissolves into the lineage stream, becomes unimportant.  Alternatively, this sage can add enough of his or her own flavor to all that went before in the lineage to amplify its importance.  I believe Laozi was an example of this kind of fate for teachings, ideas, and in all likelihood practices of a particular stream of proto-taoist shamanism.  Some schools went as far as to deify him as Laojun (Lord Lao), placing him before his lineage and even before creation itself.  That's a very interesting concept too, hinting that time is not linear (there's quite a bit of taoist lore dedicated to that subject).  

    Taomeow, and Steve, I've not thought much at all, of this way of looking at Lao Zi. So, I have to try to be open to this new concept (to me). I find it interesting, and perhaps a concept that needs much more thought and meditation. So Lao Zi and his writings might have embodied many more sages,  and/or many more sages might have "sprung" (I can't think of a better word here!) from his lineage. I really appreciate you two sharing this thinking with me, because I'm not sure that I would have arrived there by my self, if you will. Peace,  Wayist 

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  11. Posted · Edited by Wayist

    10 hours ago, Iskote said:

     

    There is simply no way of knowing from a historical perspective if Lao Zi might have been an actual person, and whether the content included in the Dao De Jing originated from one single person or not. The Dao De Jing appears to me to be a collection of various sayings and concepts, which are not so well organized, and which may very well have originated from different sources, as opposed to a cohesive single block of text written by one person. 

     

    Iskote, Yes, many people believe exactly that! That the Dao de Jing is put together from many different people, and sources, even that it was assembled at many different times.  One of the first Daodejing's that I read, was translated by Bill Porter, or as most people like to call him; "Red Pine". He seemed to pretty strongly believe that Lao Zi was a real historical person.  He even showed us where Lao Zi might have have lived, via black and white photos, and the place where the "guard of the Pass" got Lao Zi to spend some time writing down the Daodejing.  I really like Red Pine's translation.  I think that Bill Porter made a believer out of me, to Lao Zi's physical existence, at a certain place, and at a certain time. This maybe is nothing more then wanting to believe in a fairy tale, or to believe in Santa Claus, if you will. I've read a couple of books about the archeological digs where a couple of really ancient copies of the Dao de Jing, were found in burial graves. I know that this isn't much, but it seems to add more historicity to the Dao de Jing.  At least it does for me!  Thanks for writing Iskote!  Peace, Wayist

  12. Posted · Edited by Wayist

    I've asked this before. But I did not get an answer, so I'll ask again.  Do you feel that Lao Zi was a real, historic human being? As the author of the Dao de Jing (??), I would very much like to discuss this.  If you'd like to give it a go here, please write.  Thanks,  Peace Wayist

  15. Posted

    I tried to get a conversation started up here about Lao Zi, the human man. Yes, I know that religious Daoist's, revere him as "a god". I think that Lao Zi would be revolted by this kind of thinking. If he (Lao Zi) really lived in "The Warring Period", and was a Court Librarian, and perhaps some sort of "shaman" (which I don't necessarily believe in,but Im not closed minded to the *possibility* of this either). But you did not ask about this, but about how the Lao Zi (Or the DDJ/TTC) affects my own life.  I'll just point to WATER, it always flows to the point that it needs to be. I used live in a Valley, another very Daoist (Dao de Jing) kind of place. Water collects there (in my case with the aid of human beings).  What does it teach us "to be like water"?  How are we like "the uncarved block"? I try to find these substances/or "places",  in my own human life. It takes searching, looking at 'The Way' that might be for me. So, it's both in the written DDJ/TTC and in the commentary of olden, or modern,  Daoist's that might affect me. If they do, I take those teachings and apply them to my own life. Or I try to.  If you have more questions, I'll try to answer them.  If I can.  Peace,  Wayist

  20. Posted · Edited by Wayist

    Hello, I'm new here, and I'd like to discuss Lao Zi as a real historical person.  This has probably been discussed before here, but maybe we can discuss it again, I hope so anyway. I've read several versions of the Tao te Ching (Dao de Jing) , but I'm still learning about modern Daoism, and all of it's forms. I'm not sure what else to say, but I hope to be a good student. I like to learn, and  I'm interested in what all of you believe too.  OK, thanks for having me here!  Peace, Wayist

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