Mskied
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Posts posted by Mskied
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And, BTW- you are the ones defending Crowley, who says you have the right to kill to defend your rights from the Law that is Do What Thou Wilt!
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I wouldn't call myself a right winger, or a left winger. Ive already made my point about what I personally believe elsewhere but, Chaos is a funny thing; it makes you appreciate all the beauty of life, even when it comes from something ugly.
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Keep fighting the good fight, and the Gods of killing will keep providing for you with the wealth and the meat, and you will still participate and use what they provide, and murder will still occur, and your hands will still have blood on them because you didn't protest and you ate what they fed you.
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Sometimes the cost of wealth is human life.
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BTW Germany is the 5th wealthiest nation in the world now, not bad for a country so small. Hitler got what he wanted, and so did Germany. Also, if it weren't for the war, America might not have recovered from its depression, and we probably wouldn't have all the advances in science and medicine that we now possess. Yes the way he went about things was heinous, but the world should be worshipping his anus.
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There was no "proper initiation into that book" before the book.
Anyway it works like this:
There is no Law besides Do What Thou Wilt. All people follow this Law. That means "Do what you can get away with, and when its time to stand against you, we will, because we can, because the Law is Do What Thou Wilt." WE the people make the Law. So, do what you like! We'll let you know when we had enough. If no one contests, WIN!
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Not to mention there isn't any advise (actually to the contrary) about contemplation and speculation to acquire Wisdom as if you are some sage.
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60. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
and if that don't float your boat, she is unveiling herself to the company of men in a new Aeon (which starts at that time of unveiling) and so, from this point forth, the law SHALL be "Do What Thou Wilt"
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I challenge anyone to tally up the innovations, inventions, and contributions of a non war faring people and compare them to the others. If you can say that these other cultures are better, then I suggest you go live in a jungle, or wherever they exist, because historically we could not have the one without the other. Also, Aryan is not Indo European mister "there is no race"
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Read history and you find that this is how its always been, its not just Caucasians, though it would appear that throughout history Indo Europeans have led the charge in innovation and civilization.
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Well as I pointed out already, the Book of the Law is pretty clear that the only Law is Do What Thou Wilt, and that there is no other Law, and this whole concept behind Crowley having conscience about the fact that oops, there might be some things we shouldn't do is a manufacturing of apologists. In either case, Crowley aside, it does have legitimacy in a lot of respects- unless you consider that there is some kind of governor- not Nuit and Hadit, but some other being at work.
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Here is something we puzzled out over on Facebook.
If the Law is Do What Thou Wilt, and that goes down to each individual, then the only Law is the individual Law, and so the only Truth is based on my interpretation of what is. If this is the case, and then I declare Good based upon my own value.
As all things are only True to the individual, then nothing is True- except to me, and that is why Chaos magick has coined the phrase "Nothing is true, all is allowed".
If nothing is true, then nothing is real or sacred, and nothing is permanent or for that matter, important. Therefore we can defile anything, or ruin anything- because nothing is real or True, it is ever what it will be and become, and so, there is no wrong, and no Law to stop anything.
"Deliver us from the Evil and the Good"
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There is no bottom to the Abyss, there is only escape from it. The bottom of the Abyss is the ceiling of the World.
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I didn't get a passing grade on color theory, and I don't have the inclination to look into how the eye interprets color, and whether white is the absence of color or the entire color spectrum. From my simple perspective, it seems that black is the combination of color, and that white is what we get when color is extracted. Why is white so important in spirituality? Because it is the absence of color and is the color of purity- though it is easily argued that color itself is pure. I like to think that white is the purest form of color, which is colorless, meaning that all are One. Anyway, primary color, including white, is an ideal, and there are other forms of Magick than white, but the White Brotherhood seems to denote the idea that we are all One. The same can be said of black I suppose. I guess if push came to shove, White Brotherhood are the ascended Masters, having transfigured themselves beyond color.
I think its terrible that you mock this group, being that many of you claim to study the Wisdom of them.
If it is a racial thing, then I have no problem with that either, because the "White", Caucasian race- the Indo-European, has done great deeds in promoting the health and well being of this world, and this race should indeed be honored for what they have contributed. There is no shame in being of this race!
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The Tarot is not just for daily living meditations, it is also tied to the ancient initiation rites of a sacred group of individuals that have influenced the future of mankind. The story of the Tarot tells the journey of said adept as they go through life and the trials of initiation. Should you want to partake in this it is easy enough to follow the Wisdom of the Tarot from the Fool and progress. I do not know if participation in the sacred group is accessed through devotional practice. I am certain that there is a place for academia. I can vouch for the Truth that there are other paths. I do not feel that "by the book" creates innovative concepts always, and it is documented that dramatic interpretations of life via tantric experience is a valid sacred method.
I want to tell you, should your ambition be to interact with the sacred group, that this is nothing easy, and involves great pain. The Adept Exempt- which is the step one needs to take to ascend into the upper realms of this method, is an act of sacrifice- a very great sacrifice, and I cant speak upon who should be chosen to participate in this, for the Gods know how terrible it can be. It involves great strength and discipline, as well as a great fitness, for it is long in suffering. It is not just the Hanged Man, it is the Tower, and it is the Devil, and it is the Hermit. These things are difficult to endure, especially for those unprepared.
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If you consider Do What Thou Wilt as legitimate, a saying from the God of the Universe- that the Law of Man is this, then you have to admit that it is not actually a Law, so much as a way things are; all people are meant to do what they will. When you think about choice, you realize that you do this anyway, but that in this choosing, we have restrictions.
Now if you want to take on Crowley and interpret whether he is saying Do What Thou Wilt and that is it- and get rid of this idea that you eventually come to some kind of other Law, then lets look at his work. From the Book of the Law:
40. Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Thelema means Will.
41. The word of Sin is Restriction.
42. Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.
44. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.
30. If Will stops and cries Why, invoking Because, then Will stops & does nought.
31. If Power asks why, then is Power weakness.
32. Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise.
33. Enough of Because! Be he damned for a dog!
66. Write, & find ecstasy in writing! Work, & be our bed in working! Thrill with the joy of life & death! Ah! thy death shall be lovely: whososeeth it shall be glad. Thy death shall be the seal of the promise of our age long love. Come! lift up thine heart & rejoice! We are one; we are none.
17. Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.
18. Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!
25. This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. This hath also another use; let it be laid before me, and kept thick with perfumes of your orison: it shall become full of beetles as it were and creeping things sacred unto me.
26. These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you.
27. Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof.
28. Also ye shall be strong in war.
42. The ordeals thou shalt oversee thyself, save only the blind ones. Refuse none, but thou shalt know & destroy the traitors. I am Ra-Hoor-Khuit; and I am powerful to protect my servant. Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much! Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly. Swift as a trodden serpent turn and strike! Be thou yet deadlier than he! Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!
49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men.
50. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!
51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.
52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.
53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.
54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.
55. Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!
57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!
58. But the keen and the proud, the royal and the lofty; ye are brothers!
59. As brothers fight ye!
60. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
Read these experts and conclude for yourselves what he means. Think too about one of his central ceremonies which says "Deliver us from the Evil and the Good"
The reason I decry that Do What Thou Wilt is a Law, aside from Crowley, though from the above you can see that it is one and the same, is that Law is based on protecting someone and applying governance over a person or people. This Law is for the singular person, and not a community. A community has Laws so that our efforts and our health are protected, and as you can see from this writing, that is not the goal- this is no communal theory, it is a theory of power for the mighty, whos Law is Do What Thou Wilt. It is an ancient Truth, however, prior to the Wisdom of the last 2500 years, which turned religion from the rule of merciless kings to a rule of all people, whos safety and harmony is the goal.
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On 11/14/2019 at 11:37 AM, manitou said:This is one of the friendliest (and funniest) arguments I've witnessed on the Bums. Congrats to everyone involved.
The concept of Do What Thou Wilt is interesting, as I see it. In a sense, I think that's partially true. It's the acting out of everyone's desires and motivations. We are the Dao. The Dao will do what it wants.
But I think the Dao also moves toward the light. Back to our actual real nature, which is the nature of the Dao. The law of love or mutual attraction, the foundation for everything. Doing What Thou Wilt will follow the Dao if the intent and nature of the individual doing so has inner alignment to the degree of the Sage. If the intent and nature of the individual is still unrefined and unchecked, it can result in what appears to be disaster.
But the Dao doesn't care. The rain falls equally on everyone. Straw dogs, us.
I actually disagree with you. The actual real nature of human beings Is hunger. Love is a learned response based on having that hunger provided for.
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You have the freedom to choose whatever options are available to you to respond to your situation. You will probably never know them all though. Still, every second is the option to choose, its just a matter of what to choose from.
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Last night in dream I was interrogated about my life choices and found myself saying how I regretted certain things. As I slowly woke I realized that these things were unavoidable, and went back to sleep to find myself in another dream where I defended my choices and explained that I was not well prepared for knowledge. That is when a voice spoke plainly and said "I am not the God of your father, do you worship him?" and I said "I do not know the God of my father" and the voice said "Then you can follow".
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44 minutes ago, Nungali said:Thats becasue, although you ignore or deny you are doing it , you keep telling us what Crowley meant in the quotes you are making from him, even though you are saying you are not and they are your own ideas . You did it straight away after you where denying that you did it !
Yes, Thats the tack people usually take when they cannot or refuse to cough up a reference to back up their claims .
The whole title of this thread is lifted from Crowley .
... just Crowley's eh ?
Which , by the way, he does not recommend . He actually sets out a pre study curriculum . Its in Book 4 Liber Aba , which you claimed to have read and even claim to be able to teach people from !
Which brings me to an issue ; you NEVER answered my question about this , when you made that claim. It was a VERY simple and civil question; which version of Book 4 . You refused to answer , as I believe , you where fibbing and then trying to cover up your fib . If not, simply answer the questions !
repeated reactions and refusals from you in this area and MANY others is what started getting you these responses in the first place . And this isnt the first time all this has been laid out and explained to you .
But you just carry on diverting, and then complaining about others (multiple others now by the way ) picking you up on this .
There is now, only one solution .... you naughty boy !
It is true that I hadn't heard that the Law of the Universe was "Do What Thou Wilt" until I was given over to Aiwass, but I don't think this is unique to Crowley, though I do not know. I really don't comment on much of Crowley, actually- just a couple points he made about this Law.
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Happiness ends in piness.
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31 minutes ago, Nungali said:Now you are misinterpreting Crowley in yet another misunderstanding and another misquote.
These damn misquoties !
I challenge you to quote him showing your bolded words above .
Since you NEVER have shown any quoted reference to anything , one assumes you are referring to Liber Oz ... which clearly states that ;
" 5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights ".
Not to 'kill for what we believe " .
Exactly right! They have the right to kill for what they believe- which is that they have the right to these rights.
And why can they do this? Because the Law of the Universe is "Do What Thou Wilt!"
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Do What Thou Wilt
in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Posted · Edited by Mskied
Maybe if the people killed in the Holocost were Thelemites instead of Jews they would have known the Law and fought back.