Longtimepractioner

I practice Chen style consistently, but long ago I learned the "traditional" Yang Chengfu form and I keep it up because I teach it to newcomers, most of whom are senior citizens.. However, when I teach Yang style I use the aforementioned "Temple Style Training" (though I don't call it that) by breaking down the form into individual movements and putting them together as people progress. A lot of the Yang Chengfu form is similar to Waysun's form, so the method translates well. Some things, like Deflect Downward, Parry, Punch (DDPP) are very different and more closely resemble Chen style. DDPP is obviously a simplification of the Chen style "Deliver the Hammer". I don't start out with Chen style because it is too difficult for most adults to understand the smaller circles and coordination of movement with tan tien, life gate, open qua, crown point, sinking and draining, etc.. It is often hard enough just to get people to shift their weight properly; people seem to be pretty much unaware of their own movement. I have a pretty mixed bag of Chen background, as I have actually learned two similar versions of the long small frame Chen form from a "traditional" Chen family lineage, and I learned a version from a guy whose teachers learned from Feng Zhiqiang. I have also learned the Cannon Fist form, but I don't recommend it to beginners because of its emphasis on fajin, which, if not learned properly, can lead to some bad habits and even injure your joints. And I have been to seminars with Chen Xiao Wong - I even had beers with him one evening! You'll see that I use the word "traditional" in quotes. I have learned three Yang style forms, all supposedly "traditional" and all different, though filled with similarities. Long ago I learned the linkage exercises, substantializing and other exercises that Domingo Tui taught. Domingo was, early on, associated with Waysun, but he disappeared for a while then reappeared with some important information that Waysun was not teaching. Then he disappeared again. I heard he had some sort of family tragedy, but I don't have any details. Ask JP if he knows anything about Domingo.

"I think wise people quickly grow beyond challenges and fighting. Haha and having experienced JP’s power (2% only as he says), I’d say DM is probably also quite powerful. " Just to set the record straight - DM was challenged when these Chinese guys walked into his school, full of arrogance. He had to respond then and there. Their arrogance didn't last long. DM has been studying Chen Tai Chi Chuan for over 25 years, and Yang style another 20 years before that. I was once at a seminar with him when a bona fide Chen master worked with him and told him he was "very good". These masters ordinarily NEVER say anything like that. Also, DM emphasizes the the art he teaches is called Tai Chi Chuan, and the martial art is an integral part. If you leave it out, your art is woefully incomplete. Over the years, we have met many who claim to teach "spiritual" Tai Chi, or, even worse, "exercise" Tai Chi. I recently met a woman who comes from the exercise end of things, and I can only say that her tai chi, or whatever she thinks it is, is terrible. Unfortunately, the public seems to consider that all Tai Chi is the same, and it certainly is not.

dwai - I haven't seen Waysun since about 1980. I moved away from the Chicago area long ago. I was, and I guess I can say I still am, one of DM's students. I just saw him yesterday, and I asked him to verify the Vibrating Crane story. He laughed, but he said he heard it straight from the master's mouth while sitting in Waysun's office. For a number of years, DM took private lessons from Waysun on Saturdays, and was probably the best student that Waysun had. He ran a school for Waysun in Skokie, IL; RH ran a school on Devon Avenue in Chicago, and I think JP ran a group in Madison Wisconsin for a while, which means that JP and I have met, though he may have only seen me as one of RH's students. I was a student of RH, but he had some personal problems and ended up in a Monastery in Taiwan for a while (under the tutelage of a monk names Fa Su). Eventually, many of RH's students ended up with DM. And please understand, I liked RH very much, and he seemed to like me, but he was a very problematic person and could be quite volatile at times. This fact, along with his great skill as a martial artist, got him in trouble often. He liked to hang around with bikers. RH ended up in Florida, and he seemed to have become a calmer and more peaceful person in his last years. I think some of his students still carry on in the Fort Lauderdale area. JP may never have heard Waysun mention Vibrating Crane, as Waysun has always been very secretive about the specifics of his background.. I don't think the specifics matter because if you've ever had the opportunity to test Waysun, you've found out that he is very powerful. Once a person has achieved a high level of internal power, it doesn't matter where they learned it. And incidentally, DM has achieved a very high level of ability. About ten years ago, DM was challenged by a guy from mainland China who claimed to be a three time Chinese National champion of full contact Wu Dang style (whatever that is). DM quickly dumped the guy on his ass. As often happens, the guy claimed he wasn't ready, so DM waited, asked the guy if he was ready, and when he said he was, DM dumped him on his ass again. The guy tried a third time with DM putting him in a headlock with his face toward the floor. The guy ended up leaving, along with another supposed Wu Dang master who sponsored him, with his tail between his legs. I've been practicing consistently for 45 years, so I guess I have a lot of stories to tell. Over that span of time. I have become a good friend of DM. And, as I said in an earlier post, he makes no claims. He looks like a very unassuming 68 year old man, and he's hard to find (he finally gave up his landline phone this past year). But be careful if you want to challenge him.

I hate to jump in here and burst someone's bubble, but the use of "Temple Style" Tai Chi is somewhat of a misnomer. I spent 5 years with Waysun Liao and two of his senior students in the mid 1970"s. I also don't want to spread a lot of names around, so I'll just give you two of his senior student's initials: DM and RH. RH unfortunately passed away due to Lukemia just a few years age, but DM is semi-retired (he only teaches privately) but is still very active - he usually practices about 6 hours a day. DM lucked out and found some Chen people in the early 1990's and, with his talent, has become a very formidable Chen practioner. Many who have met him call him a master, but he personally makes no claims. The third of Waysun's former senior student's initials are MM. I don't know if he is still active. But my reference here is about "Temple Stye". The correct term should be "Temple Style Training". Liao's actual style is a variation of Yang style, heavily influenced by Vibrating Crane, which is also an Internal style. Waysun never revealed the name or location of the temple where he studied but he did not seem to have any religious connection to the temple - it was merely a place where he was taught and practiced, much as anyone else might practice in a park or at a gym. Waysun started using the term "Temple" somewhere around 1977 because many other schools of Chinese martial arts were referring to temples in their training styles (i.e. "Shaolin Temple", "Wu Dang Temple", etc.). He thought it was a good business practice, and it was. Liao's training method is quite different that most that I've seen over the years. Instead of teaching a form through the "follow me" method, he breaks his form down into individual movements that are strung together once the student has gained some competency in the individual movements. This means that it may take a student two or more years to learn the "short" form, but a good student will find considerable meaning in a form taught this way. And yes, I mentioned Vibrating Crane. Waysun mentioned Vibrating Crane to his senior students on a few rare occasions in the 1970's, but never elaborated on it. Whatever style he initially learned is really of no matter though. He is truly an Internal master. And while Waysun Liao is very good, there are others that are better. I have met Chen Xiao Wong!

I have been studying Tai Chi Chuan for 45 years (since 1973), and I have always practiced at least an hour a day, but usually 2 or more hours a day. For the first 20 years, I studied Yang stye, learning the forms and auxiliary training of several masters. I have been studying Chen style for over 25 years. I have also met many so-called "masters" and other people who claim to have special knowledge but should not be teaching. I have found that the majority of people know little, if anything at all. about the true nature of the Internal arts. But I have also met a small number of true masters along the way, though they are few and far between