juan

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  1. Hi. I stumbled upon this old thread, and I would like contributing with my two cents on this subject, which perplexed me for a time, explaining my current view of chakras and dantiens, that partially overlaps with these concepts, but is based on my own experience only. IMHO, chakras and dantiens are descriptions of the same system, but at different levels of detail. To complicate things, when I read about chakras, the descriptions often mix two different levels of detail. As I perceive them, chakras are not single points, but constellations of eight peripheral points, with a ninth point in the middle. So the basic elements, IME, are these peripheral points, that appear in line and connected vertically along the spine, in the front, and also along two lateral lines and four extra vertical lines in between. Horizontal lines connect these groups of 8 + 1 points, or nodes, at different horizontal levels, that roughly correlate with the levels where the chakras are supposed to be. These nodes work cooperatively, so firing a node helps and boosts the firing of neighbor nodes. By firing I mean inducing a feeling very similar to the familiar orgasm in ordinary life. And like ordinary orgasms, they are not something just imagined, these feelings are very real. When eight peripheral nodes are fired, they induce a strong and different feeling in the central node. The exception (up to certain point) are the nodes located at the root and crown, which seem to fire spontaneously, but I later discovered that their “brightness” hides the activity of other nodes in its close vicinity. So these constellations of 8+1 nodes would fit in the scheme of chakras, that would make the second level of detail. Only that I perceive not seven, but nine chakras, which correlate with the usual picture but with two “manipuras”, one below the navel and the other at the level of the diaphragm, and another extra chakra between vishuddi and ajna, with its central node just behind the soft palate. When adjacent levels, or chakras, work together, they induce a general feeling of periphery vs. core, so the end feeling is that of a “radiant” periphery and an “absorbing” core. Feeling propagates in the periphery as fire in a forest, while feelings in the core seem to coalesce as bubbles in old lava lamps. This would make the third level of detail, with a clear distinction between “LDT” from root to diaphragm; “MDT” from diaphragm to neck, and “UDT” from neck to crown. These areas, when activated, have to do with what could be called “emotional feelings” i.e. Lust, Love and Joy, and things become more complicated. This would be the third level of detail, but eventually the three DTs merge into one single core and one single periphery. This is just the description of what I perceive inside, but of course is not a prescription of what others might experience. Cheers
  2. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Thanks, johndoe, this brings the conversation back to the point I wanted to stress. First, I admit that I could very well label this “presence” as an external divinity helping me. I have even “seen” her eyes! And she is helping me a lot, if help consists in raising my previous experience to totally new realms. But it could also be ‘my’ divinity. I mean, an external divinity is someone alien to me, with his/her own agenda. But ‘my’ divinity is always there, her reaction seems to depend on my intention only. She goes as far as I want to go - or rather, as far as these ‘energies’ take us. And when we fuse, I no longer know if I am the male or the female, if I am “me” or “her”. Internal or external, who cares? What counts is this dilution of my perception of being male or female, even of my own individuality.
  3. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    OK, thanks for your advice.
  4. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    But I cannot see through the veil.
  5. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    What’s the difference? I mean, the answer depends on how we define matter, or, specially, what do we understand as immaterial world. I checked Collins, and it says the following: adjective: immaterial 1. unimportant under the circumstances; irrelevant. 2. PHILOSOPHY spiritual, rather than physical. "we have immaterial souls" If we stick to the 2nd definition, my guess is that the immaterial world can very well be an artifact built by our material minds, so the material world is first (and, quite probably, the only one). But without further agreement on the terms, my answer can only be the same as Marblehead’s.
  6. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    IMO that’s the game, yes. There have always been people writing these books - politicians, religious leaders. From the dawn of Humanity. When you get enough people having the desired version of a story you gain a lot of power. Cambridge Analytica knows a lot about this. Let me tell you a bit about my experience. I came here via “tantric sex” with a physical partner, and I despised visualization techniques, seeing them merely as a kind of substitute of the real thing. Even on my own, I was focused only in the “energy” feelings, not leaving thoughts to guide or interpret what these feelings were. Some day, about one year ago, due to a series of circumstances, I gave visualization a try. The technique I tried consisted in fusing with a god, so for obvious reasons I replaced god by “perfect partner”. And, to my surprise, this worked extremely well. With a physical partner there is a strong feeling of fusion, but skin still marks the frontier between “me” and “other”. Making “sex” with this imaginary woman took me to a new place. We fused in lust at the LDT, we fused in love at the MDT, we fused in joy at the UDT. I never had these feelings, with such intensity, with a physical partner. Was this imaginary woman a divine being lending a hand? According to the results, I could say yes. I we see this process as an accelerated clearing of obstructions, definitely yes. But the woman was just my own creation! And - this is to me the most significant, I hope I am able to express it correctly - this ideal being was inside me, not outside. It was made of the same stuff as this other mental construct called “me”. There was no “someone”. So, IMO, mind constructs (gods, ideal partners) can be useful to raise these feelings to new heights. But once the feeling is in place, mind constructs are (to me) more a hassle than a benefit.
  7. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Absolutely. I even think that speaking about local or collective mind is irrelevant, we must simply get rid of mind constructs. And gods are (mostly collective) mind constructs, don’t they? But OK, let’s imagine they are real. Would they lend a hand? If this was possible, what would then be the merit? As I see it now, gods may be a powerful visualization object for people with deep religious beliefs, and this can be helpful, but only up to a certain point. So I will continue gladly with my “practice”, leaving gods outside of the equation, but now with a bit more confidence.
  8. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Thanks, silent thunder. I deeply resonate with your words (bold is mine)
  9. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Pffff... let’s see... Mind is indeed a very slippery term. I would say that mind is the set of rules that we use to define reality. I also think that all minds are local, encapsulated inside the skull, and this “mind space” could very well be an illusion. A lot has come inside us through the senses from our birth to distinguish a deeply rooted dogma from a universal/shared truth. Only we, each one of us, using our local mind, is responsible for the consequences of accepting any truth without verifying it. Starting from “…do you exist as an independent being”, I would say that this perception is being challenged, yes. Everything seems to flow towards Oneness, the boundaries dilute. To me, the rabbit hole is the omega point where all converges into One. Kind of singularity point, where you jump from zero to infinite. Sounds poetic, a bit hollow maybe, but all we have is only words...
  10. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Thank you all for our contribution. Now I think I have a clearer picture. Sorry I about derailed the conversation from the very beginning with my human-animal meme. This is really the gist of my question. So, could a right conclusion be that gods, as anyting else existing in the realms of mind - your social character, your gender, your individuality, must be left at the door? Or, is there room for them to pass through the rabbit hole?
  11. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Well, thanks for your explanations. I will reflect upon this.
  12. Animals, humans, gods… ?

    Thanks for your comments Just watching wildlife documentaries we see that we share exactly the same drivers, survival and reproduction, even with the humblest animal. And when it comes to social animals the similarities are amazing: kings and heirs, treason and punishment… I have even seen a gang of dolphins passing a pufferfish along, apparently some kind of ball game, but the pufferfish was really used as a joint, not as a ball. Do these behaviors prove that animals think? Maybe, if we define “thinking” more precisely. But what about culture? Survival, mating and social rules/rituals passed from one generation to the next is culture, and animals do that. So I am more of the opinion that even having a set of rules, a “culture”, does not make the difference. It’s the kind of culture what counts. This takes me to my main question. It is not about the difference between animals and humans, which doesn’t seem so big (even between gods and humans, thanks Mudfoot). We share the same opinion on that. But my main question is: What is the role of gods in this business? Animals may think and even display specific cultures, but don’t seem to have gods. Only humans, or rather, specific human cultures have gods. And more often than not I see the concepts of gods, of “divine beings” slipped here and there in meditation literature as if they were awaiting us at the other side of the rabbit hole. For a human/animal living in an atheistic culture this is a bit unnerving. Am I missing something? Or, perhaps, what other cultures call “divine” is merely the sight of our real nature?
  13. This suggests some kind of evolution. Animals are animals, we humans are one step above animals, as we are able to think. But still one step above, gods abide. And we should strive to climb this step, leaving our human-animal “level” behind. Meditation seems to be a good vehicle for that, but if I understood it well, this means stopping the thinking process, leaving any thought and any idea behind. But thinking is what makes us human! With all senses turned inwards, just feeling the signals of your body, without interference of thoughts that pretend explaining them, what makes this consciousness different from animal consciousness? In other words: is this A->B->C progression real? Can we really jump from B to C leaving A and B behind? Could the second step be only an illusion and we are, we have always been, at step A? What happens then to C?
  14. Outsider's doubts

    Thanks a lot for this, Jeff. I could not understand it at that moment but now I think I have a clearer picture. My entry door to all this stuff was sex, so this was the “form” I automatically gave to all energy flows, wherever they arose. Not a visual form, but rather a “label” for the feeling. This has changed a bit, and I would like commenting my attempts, blockages and experiences in this process. As an important part of my “energy practices” is sex (tantric, perhaps, but for sure physical sex with a real woman), I tended to see with disdain any attempt of creating mental imagery around this process. What for? I had the real woman and the most incredible sex, so why imagining instead of just experiencing? And when sex became bi-directional, and I felt penetrated and filled with this energy, just as women surely feel, what kind of mental imagery should I attach to these feelings? So I just focused on the feeling, even when I was on my own, never trying to wrap any visual form around it. This was a blockage. But the main blockage came from my visceral hate against religions. This is surely due to the fact that I received my religious conditioning to serve the purposes, and in the midst, of a fascist dictatorship. So the concept of “God” and “praying” they poured on the child I was at that time was so poisonous and rude that I simply can’t conceive myself praying and worshipping any god, much less these Hindu- Tibetan gods with all their elaborated imagery. From this perspective, Yidam practices seemed absolutely out of my reach. Anyway, I googled Yidam and read some stuff I found here and there. And I marked this idea: “the main principle is understanding that your own essence and the god’s (or guru’s) essence are indivisible.” This seemed to be a good attitude to start exploring: seeing not a god in front of me, separated from me, but sharing his/her essence with my “own”. How should I dress this god? Quite naturally a feminine image was formed, for I wanted to fuse, sexually fuse, with this deity, instead of putting it on a pedestal to worship her. And this worked extremely well. The yin and yang feelings I had in physical sex came with extreme intensity. I penetrated and was penetrated at the same time, and visualization became difficult. I could see her in front of me if I focused on my yang, explosive feeling, but the simultaneous yin, implosive feeling made me also see her inside, while I was outside. Anyway, the concepts of me, she, inside and outside become doubtful and quite surely irrelevant. As I feel/visualize myself fused with this deity or whatever it is, my (our) feet and toes seem to grow, collecting millions of energy streams from far away, that converge through my (our) soles (or the place where soles usually are), go up my-our legs, slam the perineum up, and finally hit in the middle of my-our belly, with overwhelming feelings. Sex is still the best form I can allocate to these feelings, but this is much more than sex. It feels as a force of Nature; it feels as Life itself. But these are just words. So I felt connected, fused with this deity, from the diaphragm down. What about the heart, that seemed to be the next level? Love is usually attached to this place, and the feelings there generated, so I tried with this concept. Soon I discovered that not any love fits. Definitely not the tamed, worn, comfortable love (but still love) that settles in a couple after many years. No, this has to be the wild, innocent, unconditional love that we had once felt. And I collected all the feelings of loving and being loved from my memories, and focused on these pure feelings only, forgetting about the specific lovers that raised these feelings, and voilà. An orgasm of love traversed our chests, I felt her love pouring and exploding into my heart and my heart sending my love back to her. If I see her as a goddess, this is surely pray. And so we fused, the same as we already were from the diaphragm down, and I could visualize her in front of me, or me in front of her, but this was again difficult and irrelevant. Everything happened in a single body, be it within or without my physical boundaries. And the flavor was definitely different from sex, and I could readily attach the label of Love to it, but, again, I feel that this thing that we perceive and label as Love is just part of a much more general and pervasive force of Nature. I spent some weeks in this situation, fused with my lover deity from the heart down, but still we were a monster with two heads. I was puzzled. The concept of sex was quite good for wrapping the feelings of our fusion from the diaphragm down; the concept of love fitted quite well with the feelings at the heart (even when, in both cases, the labels seemed extremely small to cover these immense feelings). But, what kind of worldly feeling could be attached to the fusion of our heads? Mutual understanding? This has a lot to do with sharing mindsets, and mindsets seem to be totally out of place here. Then what? The answer came suddenly, from the eyes of this deity that I could see/imagine in front of me. Only her eyes I could see, and in a magic moment I saw there a spark of JOY that immediately turned on a tsunami that penetrated through my eyes and filled my head with an immense orgasm of joy, an explosion of pure, absolute joy, as I never experienced before. And her joy was my joy, and again we shared a yin-yang orgasm, but now in my/our head, with an incredible intensity, and this time with the definite flavor of JOY. This was my missing ingredient. And that’s all I have to say at the moment. I don’t know what all this means, but I feel I have reached a different and wonderful place, following your hints. My gratitude to you all.
  15. Can't Log Out

    I see this is an old problem, but I still find it sometimes. Can't logout, whether I'm using Firefox or Chrome.