Bindi

From my perspective, the subtle energy realities are dual, literally paired systems, being the right and left subtle channels (yin and yang/Ida and pingala/lalanā and rasanā). They are not cleared by wishful thinking or not thinking, and to get anywhere they do have to be cleared. It’s a spiritual scam is to say there is nothing to do there. The central channel (sushumna/avadhūtī) is also a dual system, referred to as shiva and shakti or Yang Qi and Yin Qi. These energies have to be brought together. This is also not achieved by wishful thinking, or denying their existence. Beyond these tasks there may be nonduality, the mindless mind, emptiness, but to truly attain this a whole lot of healing of the subtle channels needs to take place. I agree with you Daniel, nondualists claim superiority of understanding and achievement, but all their blabbering is just a fools game that is currently in vogue.

Just out of interest, I first noticed what I assume is my LDT by how it felt, and I rested awareness on that sensation because there was nothing else that stood out like that sensation-wise. I’d never heard of dantians etc, and it was only decades later I first read the word dantian. Not knowing any better I concentrated attention on that point for decades! Now I’m grateful for that naïveté and simplicity.

And then again, Amy’s book might be relevant to the topic as 3bob suggests: “Sorcerer's Apprentice unblinkingly reveals the inner workings of the "Cult of Carlos," run by a charismatic authoritarian in his sixties who controlled his young female followers through emotional abuse, mind games, bizarre rituals, dubious teachings, and sexual excess. Wallace's story is both specific and universal, a captivating cautionary tale about the dangers of giving up one's power to a tyrant-and about surviving assaults on body and spirit.” https://www.amazon.com.au/Sorcerers-Apprentice-Carlos-Castenada-Castaneda/dp/1583942068

Kundalini activation via sex is not advisable even if it were possible, this site is very informative about the proper process, particularly:

Agreed, it should be ‘Do not interrupt the course of heaven’, which we do interrupt by default because we’re messed up. It shouldn’t be a return to the ways of nature.

Yes I see, I don’t really understand what they’ve achieved then, if they start with the yin and Yang image and end with it? This is a photo of actual quantum entanglement, I wonder if it tells us anything?

Where did you read this?

I agree with your tripartite arrangement of ecstasy thought feeling but I would be inclined to replace “ecstasy” with something else. Not sure what though! Something in a different ballpark to thought and feeling yes, a third state, perhaps one that is in sync with underlying reality, in sync with the world, not necessarily pleasant or unpleasant but satisfying somehow. For a mundane example say being in sync requires returning after an argument to resolve an issue with someone, not necessarily pleasant, but satisfying and an action that can result in better relationship. Right time right place instead of pushing shit uphill? Being in sync with the Dao?

Hi Daniel, to be honest you wouldn’t want to hear about the neidan child from me, much better to go with the acknowledged neidan masters that frequent this board. To me neidan is just one more part of the elephant, and a fairly odd part at that. My own perspective on the child is that it is the result of shiva and Shakti conjoining for want of a better analogy, which is central channel work.

Back on wu wei, to me it’s not allowing the ‘natural’ to happen as opposed to the mentally contrived, it’s allowing more spiritual forces to take control. One view reverts to what is natural, to what is always potentially there in the background, in my perspective something new has to first be generated, for example the neidan child, which then takes over operations. I have the same issue about going beyond yin and yang, it’s not operating from emptiness or void, but something has to be established, a new platform from which to operate from. My view is not the standard view, it’s definitely not along the lines of ‘we are already enlightened we just don’t know it’, far closer to the neidan view that a spiritual child has to be established.

By ultimately I mean in absolute reality they are actually divided until such time as they are not, as opposed to they are ultimately United and merely appear to be divided because of our limited perspective.

I think the Indian parable of the 5 blind men each holding a different part of the elephant is spot on, I also find some truth in a variety of different systems.

Argument from inconsistent revelations The argument from inconsistent revelations is an argument that aims to show that one cannot choose one religion over another since their revelations are inconsistent with each other and that any two religions cannot be true.[61] The argument appears, among other places, in Voltaire's Candide and Philosophical Dictionary. It is also manifested in Denis Diderot's statement in response to Pascal's wager that, whatever proofs are offered for the existence of God in Christianity or any other religion, "an Imam can reason the same way".

The very fact that there are numerous different religious beliefs leads to the inevitable conclusion that 99% of them at least are not true. That leaves one a 1% chance of believing in the true belief, and that’s allowing that one belief is actually based on subtle reality.

Faith in what anyone says without it being my direct experience is fraught with danger (in the realm of the subtle body and subtle energies), the only faith I can have is in my own *Higher Self, so my Higher Self is what I must find. *I equate Higher Self with Higher consciousness/Shiva.

And he brought an estimated 65 million Chinese to their ‘greater union’. Dangerous philosophy indeed.

This is the question I was asking you. My answer is there is no benefit, because one can be theoretically sure about a multitude of things that’s are simply not true, better to inch oneself towards tangible truths than be misled by a mile.

Shiva/Shakti as transcendent “God” may be a philosophy, working with these subtle polarities can be a fact, we are here divided until such time as we are not, why propose something undivided that you haven’t actually attained and have no direct experience of apart from theoretical? What is the benefit of that idea practically speaking?

Yes, the definition of original sin would have to be majorly reworked.

Surely that leads to the notion that if I kill you I would have done you a service because I brought you to the greater union? Anyway if karma and rebirth exist death is no final solution.

okay, thanks for the brevity I couldn’t understand because dissolution according to the dictionary is “decomposition into fragments or parts”, also “Indulgence in sensual pleasures/debauchery”. ‘Decompose separation into its fragments’, at a bare minimum it’s an odd way of saying create union, if your interpretation of the sentence is correct. I would suspect debauchery to be more the meaning he was intending given it’s Crowley.

This makes me think of wu wei.

Couldn’t karma be referred to as original sin, that which we are born with though not entangled with some weird god belief?

I truly hesitate to ask, but very briefly (pleeeeease) dissolution of what and how is it a solution?

I think effectively and ultimately divided. In terms of Shakti/Shiva, posit Shiva as the higher Self, undivided in himself, but undeniably divided from kundalini until kundalini is awakened and raised to the right place and in the right time to join with Shiva.