Uroboros

For newer practitioners, I think it is quite important to specify WHERE the LDT is / point of focus. We all could be talking about totally different points of reference.

Some books say the anchor point is QiHai acupuncture point, some say it is in the center of the belly. Some say the entire lower belly.

In my own experience, I started at the external (the lower belly/ QiHai) and eventually the deeper layers opened and showed themselves as they pleased.

Some excellent advice my old Teacher gave me was to make the LDT a part of your every day existence, include it in every activity you do. Move from it.

Anywho, would anyone else like to chime in on their way?

Uroboros:

 

I am not sure I have an answer to your question. Google does not say much: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=drought+in+california

 

Too many people? Too much agriculture? Global warming/cooling? Who knows...

 

Gendao:

Your reply is outstanding. I would like to clarify though that it was not a work done on me. Here is a short version of the story:

 

1. There had been drought in California ( known fact)

2. There had been a huge forest fire which firefighters could not stop and fire got dangerously close to town... 

3. Qicat thought, "What could stop the fire?" Brilliant answer, "Water!" ( my teacher would be proud I remember something out of 5 elements theory  ).

4. Qicat went to "talk" ( see post above)

5. Qicat never saw him doing anything or participated in anything.

6. Two days later rain came and the fire was gone.

7. Few weeks later there was a strange coincidence of a random TV news at the gas station saying in my ear that there are flash flood warnings in that area... Qicat thought... "weird...but whatever..."

8.  Few month later, the road was closed due to mudslide... Too much rain ( infrastructure is not suitable for proper drainage)... so qicat is wondering if it's time to visit the priest again and ask some questions...

 

........

Now, as you see, the intent was to stop the fire from destroying the forest. I am simply a "concerned citizen". If this worked thousand years ago, why can't it work now? And it seems it's actually working... 

 

 

p.s. But I think you might be right in part of a personal practice ( i.e. inner universe, outer universe), if it really works, if I fix whatever is inside, outside theoretically will be fixed ( So, "too much drought & rain" also means "not enough reservoir capacity.") Will keep you posted:) 

Hey Qicat,

I see where you are trying to get to. There are a few problems to that ending.

First is that, as you observed, man introduces a "force" into nature on a subtle level which adjusts flow to manifest an altered expression (drought-rain).  How much force was need to alter drought- rain? What happens when that change alters the other various multitude of "forces" at play?

Rain adjusts wind, wind adjusts temperature, adjusts earth/ ecology, etc. Well, lets say this cascade of changes takes affect, what happens when it reaches a breaking point?

Flood. Mudslide. Then a sudden backlash leading into a larger wild fire. Why? Because the original alteration required a sizable force and that force will create more forces of equal power at different vectors. 

Now, you want to understand how to be more precise. Less nuke more precision warhead. Reasonable.

Can you grasp all the vectors/ forces at play and understand how to adjust gently, with very little interference? Are you able to read the paths of the land and the heavens, thereby bringing harmony without interference?

I sure as hell cant! haha.

What I am trying to get to, is that the answer you seek is not easy nor simple. Study Feng Shui and you may learn to read and see the forces/ vectors. Maybe QiGong/ Meditation will do it. I cannot say.

Just posing more questions and points for thought.

mmm....

 

Spotless... you claim to be Awaken/Enlightened ( I read your threads).... yet here you sidetrack the conversation... yet every Enlightened theoretically should be able to call rain... any true Daoist shaman should be able to call rain... any priest of the true lineage should be able to call rain...

 

I am asking simple question on a particular topic of rain making. Not cars, not "wishes", nada... Share your wisdom on this...rain...water...flood..

 

So many quantum physics theoretical battles here, yet I am a simple girl with a plain request - "Rainmaking theory and practice 101". 

As I am now, I think that it would be wiser to see why the drought existed to begin with. Strike the root and the tree will fall, no?

Much good can come from a drought.

Apologies, I do not know much about rain calling, I have only done so a few times. I learned many years ago to be careful with such forcing of nature. She has her reasons, best to nudge where nudging is accepted, not force her hand.

back to that neurology stuffz again, hehe

 

solve it at a really base fundamental level, rote the f* out of anapanasati, and a calm clear mind free of useless mental chatter is only a matter of when it arrives, not if.

 

I wouldnt be so confident in saying so if I hadnt done it myself....more than a few times...

Such a thing requires allot of work and is very....simple. The lack of flash turns many off from the potential work.

Sad....

Like I said, until you've actively cleared your channels out, passively allowing qi to flow through them is an exercise in near-pointlessness...

 

In this case, the optimal time to stand is 0, because it's largely a pointless waste of time.

 

It's like watching and waiting for water to drip out of a faucet, without turning it on first...

Indeed, this is why moving cultivation is so helpful. Along with dredging the channels.

My personal opinion, though flawed it is, is that the question itself of "gathering" Qi is incorrect.

We already have it, get it, make it, etc. The issue is more about function and flow.

Does your energetic, physical, emotional, mental structure function in harmonious fashion?

Does the Qi within your system flow smoothly when it should?

Secondly, I think it is more...about cultivation itself. We don't gather a bunch of Qi into a TanTien, we transform and harmonize the function of the TanTien so it can by itself hold more Qi automatically/ function in a more efficient manner.

Some ramblings to throw into the mix.

Funny thing, the book Anatomy of Hatha Yoga by David Coulter has a great chapter on breathing that also states we should work to cultivate a continuous breath, not utilizing holds for a long while. Very useful book, btw.

Fearlessness is real only for the invincible.  Everyone else who feels or acts fearless is either engaged in counterphobic acting-out (aka repression and denial), or is too numb and/or dumb and/or unimaginative to comprehend the danger, or -- best case scenario -- has courage.  Of all traits in a vulnerable, non-invincible human being, I value courage the highest.  Courage is doing what you know is right when doing it puts you in danger, knowing and feeling and owning your fear and yet overcoming it for the sake of something bigger than your safety.  Courage has nothing to do with recklessness, and the fearless can't be courageous, because...  see the beginning of this paragraph.   

 

My favorite Castaneda quote: "A man goes to knowledge as he goes to war: with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance.  Going to knowledge and going to war in any other manner is a mistake, and those who make this mistake may not live to regret it."  (Quoting form memory, and of course what it says about "man" applies to "woman" as well.)

In the vein of this, I remember reading about the old greek difference between boldness and courage. The bold are reckless, stupid, fearless. They act without caution and thought. The bold are not to be admired.

The courageous feel fear and are not stupid enough to think they are invincible. They are ones who cultivate virtue, right action in the right way at the right time. Courage is thoughtful, it is intent-full. There is even caution inherent in it as one does no want to give way to boldness and stupidity.

  "The sage changes like a leopard, the inferior person discards the face." 

 

One of my favorite lines in the I Ching. 

 

How does a leopard change? 

 

Leopards do it very subtly, they don't shed their whole skin like snakes, nor their tail like tadpoles, nor transform drastically into something else like caterpillars.  They shed some fur in accordance with the season, grow thicker fur when the time is right, change the glossiness, the fluid play of movement under the surface, so the light refracts differently and waxes iridescent on their body.  They change as subtly and gradually as day changes into night, night into day.  They turn into a play of light and darkness, of shade and brightness, but they do it with and within the body they have. 

 

The "inferior person" seeks "total transformation" and "transcendence" and "discarding the body" as something unwanted, discarding  the "me," the "who I am" as something alien or inferior or bothersome -- "ego," "ignorance," "gross matter," etc..  For all purposes it's similar to betraying and abandoning an unwanted child.  They seek to discard who they are because they feel that who they are is not that great. 

 

The sage does not do that.  She seeks to cultivate herself if she's dissatisfied -- not erase herself, not eradicate who she is.  She plays with and within who she is...  trying on a different kind of sensitivity, a different kind of interactions with a different kind of phenomena, a different kind of strength, a different kind of beauty, a different kind of wisdom...  but not discarding herself.  She is the leopard.  Not the tadpole.

Beautiful.

Thank you

 It looks like Yin style Bagua uses 8 healing sounds, not 6.

Anyone know of any other sources that utilize a similar sequence?

http://www.qigongfu.com/8HS_Article_web.pdf

While I was sick recently I just laid in bed and breathed into the LDT. Eventually the subtle breathe reaches and starts to connect, stabilize and fill. It was....quite refreshing.

From the limited information I've come across it seems like xing yi quan shares many similarities with boxing in terms of power generation. I want to know several things

 

1) Does xing yi quan share bobbing, weaving, slipping, feints, excellent guards for defense and advanced footwork similar to boxing?

 

2) Also, has xing yi quan been influenced by boxing in more modern times?

 

I'm interested in learning one Chinese martial art (that isn't wing chun or tai chi) to go with my boxing and judo. It may end up being sanshou but I'm looking at xing yi quan also.

 Firstly, I have a small level of experience in regards to XingYiQuan. Take what I say and compare it with others more experienced, there happen to be a few here.

As far as I understand it, the mechanics are very different to boxing. XingYi is more...like a piston. A steam engine. It is whole body, unified and expressing a certain force/ vector. You also use special walking to gain grown and express forces while utilizing gravity.

Boxing does unify but not in the same way. Example- a strike in boxing is standing still and utilizes a chain from feet to hip to shoulder to hand. In XingYi your whole body would move as one, utilizing special walking to gain a more advantageous ground along with emitting force/vector.

Bobbing and weaving are not something I see in XingYi. It is better to move like a steam engine/ piston and gain ground + destabilize. Bobbing and weaving also wastes too much energy. Why spend the energy doing that when you need to end the fight with as little effort as possible? Next enemy could be near.

I think many styles of MA are influenced by boxing now. If it has aspects that work, it will be utilized. Is the XingYi you will be learning legitimate? Is it really going to cultivate your skill and body-mind in the right way? I dont know.

Anywho, I hope that helps.

I rarely comment anymore simply because it is rarely productive. In this case, I feel the need to make an observation without giving any further communication on the topic.

In our spiritual and cultivation minded world, it is very common for discussions to become arguments. Defending views, proving others wrong, stabilizing superiority, etc. This thread originally peaked my interest as it started off talking about a topic I find worthy of deeper contemplation.

Shortly after its creation it became consumed by a feud of opinion and lineage. Now seven pages later, it is just filled with pointless insults on character and knowledge.

This is petty. It is pointless. If I was a newcomer interested in these arts, I would be led astray by posts and threads such as these. Reading this, I feel ashamed for the cultivation world. That this is the current state, of one of the only forums on the internet where people actively involved gather, is depressing.

No wonder these arts are being lost. We are throwing them away. Spending our days fighting over who is right, instead of having actual discussions and deepening our knowledge. I use to enjoy reading this forum because there were intelligent conversations, sharing of knowledge and wisdom. Now.......This and masturbation.

Thank you!

I will give it a listen and absorb.

My experience concurs with this post.

In doing a solid QiGong form, the processes initiated when they were ready.

I got sidetracked and have yet to open the first of the three gates completel, though.

I think its more about initiating and resting in that initiation then manually driving the process....

The processes are seeds within us. The right conditions activate the growth of the seed into the oak.

The OP does not want methods that emphasize lucid dreaming...

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche recently mentioned that he's thinking of writing a second volume related to dream and sleep yoga!

Thank you for hearing what I am looking for!

I am a fan of Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. If he does write this other book, I will read that, too!

there is an excellent book by Tenzin Rinpoche called The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep

I have read the book and it is quite good. It is not the kind of method I am interested in, though.

Thank you

One of the points I have heard often is that the focus shouldn't be too intense. Doing so could cause stagnation of Qi/ Blood. I have had the best results with utilizing a more open awareness, 40-60%, with a light knowing of purpose. I rarely visualize as I have no idea if what I am "seeing" is real development. I let my self show me what is there and run with that. I let it naturally occur.

The main thing you want to do during sleep is protect Qi from leaking through dreams.

What you can do is lie on your side in the fetal position.

direct the mind to the legs and simply keep it there.

Stay that way for as long as possible, or until you go back to sleep.

That way you will get to keep more of your qi.

 

The natural logic of this is that when you sleep, the blood tends to go to the head to protect the brain.  If you will your mind to your legs it can draw some blood there and thus your body will get to keep more qi than it would if you were sleepin in another position.

 

This is abstracted from Da Cheng Jie Yao (a book from the Qing dynasty about nei dan methods)

Thank you for this. I will try it out.

Have you practiced this often? If so, did you notice any changes in your sleep/waking states?

Sweat, get in a sauna, and eat some heavy grounding foods, like beef.

 

That being said, some doors  - when kicked open, never seal again properly

 

What has been seen, can not be 'unseen'...

I agree with this. I had some experiences of the door opening kind as a youngin and while I have healed much of the damage, there are lasting changes.

Often the transformation that comes from such doors opening is not valued in our every day culture. That can make it difficult to utilize it for our own benefit and the benefit of others.

Ch'an master Hakuin, after years of ascetic practice, healed himself and finally awakened into enlightnment while studying under the Daoist hermit Hakuyu. Hakuin has since become somewhat of a poster boy for Ch'an practice, "Hakuin is so famous and important that all Rinzai Zen masters today trace their lineage through Hakuin". This is quite interesting given the blend of the previous Ch'an with the Daoist methods.

 

In fact there are so many instances where famous figures of either Ch'an or Daoism studied the other, that historians often cannot separate when or where, or how they influenced each other. In fact, even methods such as the yijin jing ('tendon'- changing classic) ascribed to Da Mo, were in fact from a Daoist priest and author. There is also the Wu-Liu pai, TianDao qigong, even Bruce Frantzis' 'Water' tradition teacher first taught him Ch'an practices. Doc Morris practiced Zen for years before working with qigong.

 

According to Hakuin himself;

 

"This treatment was first devised by Shakamuni Buddha. In the middle ages it came down through the Tendai school, where it was used widely as a treatment for extreme exhaustion. Yet seldom in this degenerate age do we hear of this miraculous treatment. How sad that people today seldom gain knowledge of this Way. When I was in my middle years I heard of it from the hermit Hakuyu, who maintained that the speed of its efficacy lay only in the degree to which the practitioner endeavored. If one is not laggard one may obtain long life. Don’t say that Hakuin has become senile and is teaching old-woman’s Ch'an. Perhaps if you just get to know it, you will clap your hands and laugh out loud. Why? ‘Unless you have seen disorders, you do not know the virtues of an honest minister; unless you have accumulated wealth, you do not know the determination of an honest man.’"

 

I was once trying to help someone with excessive rising yangqi, they were in immense pain and struggling. I tried to help lower, sink and dissolve their qi, drawing it to their feet. But it wasn't coming down. One of my teachers helped. The person literally melted. It was like all the bones in their body disappeared. Later they described that it had felt like an egg on their head had cracked and everything sank and released downards. They did not know of Hakuin's 'butter' egg meditation, yet the description was so close it couldn't be ignored. It gave me a greater appreciation of the implications of this meditation. I never did ask my teacher exactly what they had done to help.

 

Best,

 

Below are two versions, a 'modern' and condensed version and a more 'traditional' version, which should allow greater appreciation as you see two angles.

 

Hakuin's Healing Egg (a condensed version from Hoshin Dao qigong)

 

Above your head sits a glowing white egg of pure healing energy. As you focus on it, it begins to melt and flow down through your body, cleansing your lungs and spine. It flows into your kidneys and down through your stomach, spleen, kidneys, liver and digestive tract. As you continue to focus on it, the energy flows down through the entire body cleansing the legs and pouring out the feet.

 

As the last of the cleansing energy leaves your body, the glowing egg releases its soothing, healing medicines. Fragrant elixirs pour out of it and flood the entire body, healing all of the organs and channels and soaking deep into the bones. The entire body is soothed and relieved. Excess is moderated, deficiency is made up, heat is cooled, cold is warmed. All is balanced, calmed and nourished.

 

Hakuin's Butter Pill Meditation

 

“There is a remedy especially efficacious for debili­tated people. Its properties for relieving exhaustion of the vital breath are particularly wondrous. It counteracts a rush of blood to the head, warms the legs, settles the bowels, brightens the eye, augments good wisdom, and is effective in casting aside all evil thoughts.

 

The recipe for one dose of the soft butter pill is as follows: one part of the "real aspect of all things,” one part each of “the self and all things,” and the “realization that these are false,” three parts of the “immediate realization of Nirvana,” two parts of “no desires,” two or three parts of the “non­duality of activity and quietude,” one and a half parts of sponge­gourd skin, and one part of “the discarding of all delusions.” Steep these seven ingredients in the juice of patience for one night, dry in the shade and then mash. Season with a dash of the six perfections (1) then shape everything into a ball the size of a duck's egg and set it securely on your head.

 

Practitioners who are just beginning their study should not concern themselves with the properties of the medicine nor amount used, but should merely contemplate the fact that a delicately scented soft butter-like object the size of a duck's egg is suddenly on their heads. When a sick person wishes to sue this remedy he (or she) should spread for himself a thick cushion, hold his back straight, adjust his eyes, and sit in a correct posture. He should then shift gently to position himself properly, and set about meditating.

 

Repeat three times the words: ‘Of the essentials of preserving life, nourishing the breath has no peer. When the breath is exhausted the body dies.’(2) By doing so, one can truly carry out this con­templation. Those who have this duck egg with the consistency of soft butter on their heads feel a strange sensation as the whole head becomes moist. Gradually this feeling flows downward. The shoulders, elbow, chest, diaphragm, lungs, liver, stomach, backbone, and buttocks all gradually become damp. At this time the various accumulations in the chest, and those of lower back pain, stiffness and constipation all drop down at will, like water flowing naturally to a low place. This sensation is felt throughout the body, and it circulates moving downward, warming the legs, until it reaches the soles of the feet, where it stops.

 

The practitioner should then repeat the same contemplation. The overflow that penetrates downward sinks in and accumulates until it steeps the body in warmth, just as a good physician gathers together various aro­matic herbs, brews them, and pours the concoction into the bath. The practitioner feels that his body from the navel down is steeped in this moisture. When this contemplation is being practiced, because it is induced only by mental activity, the sense of smell becomes aware of exotic odors, the sense of touch becomes wondrously acute, and the body and mind become attuned. Suddenly the accumulations dissolve, the bowels and stomach are harmonized, the skin becomes radiant, and the energies increase greatly.

 

If this contemplation is conscientiously brought to maturation, what disease cannot be cured, what magical art cannot be performed? This is indeed the secret method for maintaining health, the wondrous art of longevity."

 

1 The six “perfections” are: charity, mainte­nance of the commandments, patience, perseverance, meditation and wisdom

2 Paraphrasing Lao Zi

 

["Golden Butter" is used as a term in some schools to represent the golden light from heaven that is used for alchemical purposes. I am unsure of this is also why Hakuin describes the pill/egg as 'Butter'. It may simply be due to the ease of seeing/feeling butter melt through the body.]

Thank you for sharing this teaching. I am going to experiment with it and see if it works.

 

Create as vividly as you can, an Astral Temple space.

 

Project there in your "mind" as you fall asleep- but start to visualize yourself (not seeing yourself, but actually transferring your Yi to *that* body)

 

Then, perfom a Yin Magnetic Gong, as you fall alseep

 

You will know if you did this correctly when you wake up.

 

Continued practice will develop strong magickal abilities and bio-location as well.

What does Yin Magnetic Gong entail, SOTG?

The psychic mind is not the mind of dao - read this in the classics recently; didn't find it again though.

 

I've found the sleeping recommendations here to be helpful.

Also see this from gift of tao / stillness-movement system.

That is why I am curious about methods other then lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming seems to focus more on visualizations and imaginings, more mental/ psychic. Where does it reflect the same process as the other waking cultivation methods? Do the ancients talk of it? Tibetan Buddhism does have some LD practices that you utilize to prepare for death.

I would think it would be similar to many methods where you, in a waking state, create the right fertile conditions to start the process and then the process does its thing. We already initiate a process of revitalization and transformation by sleeping. Consciously utilizing that, not for death but for life, might be a key.

Thanks for the links, Daeluin.  I will look into them.

This shows a HUGE hole in your understanding then. I would fix it if I were you. Not going to say anymore.

It's interesting that you say that without explaining why. Just pointing out how you think someone is wrong without explaining why gives very little validity to your point. It just isn't constructive and continues the cycle of confusion.

There are so many methods of cultivation out there, yet most seem to keep us rooted in the human affliction. Lucid dreaming, from what I have read and heard from people who practice various methods of it, does not lessen the afflictions. That is why I stay away from most things that appear to have a higher chance of creating illusions of transformation.

The kind of practices I am curious about are not lucid dreaming focused. Lucid dreaming has little utility in my view as it is just more thinking/ imagining.

I am asking more about cultivation in alignment with qigong/neigong/meditation practices.  How to enliven the shen-qi-jing, so to speak, through sleep practices. Even though it happens already, how to utilize it consciously and improve the quality of the process.

Something more along those lines.

Currently, I do the healing sounds before I go to sleep and I find them a good way to relax me before I drift off to sleep. They do seem to get rid of some of the tension I gained through out the day.

 

I've had some experience with lucid dreaming and had some success. But, for me, the effort I had to put in to it in terms of setting my alarm clock early, walking around, and then going back to bed in order to get into that state, was not worth it in the long term. I can see that there are many benefits from such practices, but they were too difficult for me to achieve.

What form of SHS do you practice? Just the sounds or movements? I did that for awhile and it did appear to help the quality of sleep.

I am not so much talking about lucid dreaming, as utilizing our natural movement into emptiness/ process of revitalization to benefit our cultivation.