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Question about stages in Neidan


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#65 dwai

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:36 PM

Well now I need clarification because I've only moved qi a couple of times really. Once when I first activated the LDT and I did the orbit and felt it all around apart from the two points in the head and a second time in bed once with inhale up the back and exhale down the front and I felt it warming up at the LDT each time.

All my meditations have been me breathing wherever the qi goes with no active involvment concerning where it ought to go.

Right now my LDT is warm and if I put my focus there and start breathing correctly it will probably move and I'll feel my 3rd eye too. I'm just not doing anything today because I feel a little off colour from going out and taking drugs (NOT HALLUCINOGENS and don't ask what I took because I'm not telling anyone)


Hold your palms facing each other about one foot apart. Line up the centers of your palms and put your attention on an imaginary line connecting these two points.

Now your LDT is warmed up right? Just relax, hold this posture and breath in and out slowly from your LDT. You will start feeling an elwctromagnetic sensation between your palms.

After a little while, slowly continue breathing but bring your palms closer towards each other. Feel what happens.

Then move your palms away form each other and see what happens.

 

EDIT: Adding some more details. Once you get proficient with doing this, you will start feeling a spherical shape appears between your palms.  With time this ball will grow in size and eventually radiate beyond the distance between the two palms. The ball can be split into two balls (one in each palm), the ball can be made to spin and become a elongated cylindrical shape and so on. There are many drills that can be done by just moving the ball. What you do externally with the ball will also happen internally in your channels. This is the indirect method. 


Edited by dwai, 06 April 2017 - 01:19 PM.

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#66 Aletheia

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 04:17 AM

Hold your palms facing each other about one foot apart. Line up the centers of your palms and put your attention on an imaginary line connecting these two points.

Now your LDT is warmed up right? Just relax, hold this posture and breath in and out slowly from your LDT. You will start feeling an elwctromagnetic sensation between your palms.

After a little while, slowly continue breathing but bring your palms closer towards each other. Feel what happens.

Then move your palms away form each other and see what happens.

 

EDIT: Adding some more details. Once you get proficient with doing this, you will start feeling a spherical shape appears between your palms.  With time this ball will grow in size and eventually radiate beyond the distance between the two palms. The ball can be split into two balls (one in each palm), the ball can be made to spin and become a elongated cylindrical shape and so on. There are many drills that can be done by just moving the ball. What you do externally with the ball will also happen internally in your channels. This is the indirect method. 

Thanks! I made a huge qi ball last night. Each time I widened my hands and then brought them closer together again it got bigger.

 

Do you, or anyone else, know any books which goes over that kind of stuff? I want to buy one or two books that have loads of good information in. I'm not really talking about neidan here. Just books with stuff like the above.


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#67 dwai

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:07 AM

Thanks! I made a huge qi ball last night. Each time I widened my hands and then brought them closer together again it got bigger.

 

Do you, or anyone else, know any books which goes over that kind of stuff? I want to buy one or two books that have loads of good information in. I'm not really talking about neidan here. Just books with stuff like the above.

 

I recommend this book -- https://www.amazon.c...asap_bc?ie=UTF8

 

This is presented as qigong but actually goes far beyond as these are some of the very engines we use to drive our Dao Gong/Shen Gong cultivations in Temple Style Tai Chi.


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#68 Taoist Texts

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:22 AM

I can feel the crown of my head when I breath and focus on the qi so that it feels like the air is coming through the top of my head and it felt watery when I put qi there the first time. It kind of feels like there's a hole there and in the 3rd eye and if I put my finger in either of those spots it will go right through like the skull isn't there.

These are very good signs. Just go easy on heat. Too much heat is dangerous.


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#69 Aletheia

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:35 AM

These are very good signs. Just go easy on heat. Too much heat is dangerous.

Thanks for the help!



#70 Aletheia

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:38 AM

I recommend this book -- https://www.amazon.c...asap_bc?ie=UTF8

 

This is presented as qigong but actually goes far beyond as these are some of the very engines we use to drive our Dao Gong/Shen Gong cultivations in Temple Style Tai Chi.

THANKS!



#71 allinone

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 03:26 AM

These are very good signs. Just go easy on heat. Too much heat is dangerous.

 

are you looking at the familiar words OP uses and getting confused?

 

There is this thing as time. He said he started out just. In longer time there comes understanding that these type of energies bring not enough big impact, dispassion will come by itself. Euphoric tendencies will subside. So there will be a flip to next phase of dark tendencies will surface and suicidal thoughts appear and at the peak its noticed it is caused by craving and it will cause breakthrough or cessation of suffering.

Then new life starts with new hopes and picking up again books of spirituality and aliens and feeling almighty, vitality is back.

 

But because of clinging he still has inferior views, like there is qi and energy and heat existing...


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#72 Taoist Texts

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 05:19 AM

are you looking at the familiar words OP uses and getting confused?

 

Hehe) i am never confused. I either know, or i dont.

 

  So there will be a flip to next phase of dark tendencies

 

 

 

may be there will be, and may be there will be not.


世人个个学长年,不悟年年在目前,我得宛丘平易法,只将食粥致神仙。

#73 Aletheia

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:15 AM

He said he started out just.

 

No I didn't say that. I've been thinking philosophy day and night for years.

 

Maybe I've been mean spirited in this thread, but I explained I was off colour and it was my own fault. And if you look through the posts in this thread people's answers are circumscribed predominately within the narrow confides of the Western mind while suggesting I'm a deviant without sufficient reason then when pushed wildly exclaiming I'm psychotic, one nameless person even managed to completely lose the plot and have a total breakdown, others claim I'm not enlightened while bad mouthing legitimate traditions and generally people are weaving weird tangents into the thread which never even touch upon the thread's topic.

 

Starjumper is even passionately comparing what I'm saying with the miasmic political sphere in an attempt to win an argument wholly engineered within his own mind, which is quite a feat! And it's not as if politics isn't contained by the speed of light inside a post-metaphysical event horizon demonically playing to discarnate man's base emotions many orders away from the truth anyway! The guy is literally the sound of mad barking LOL.


Edited by Aletheia, 08 April 2017 - 06:30 AM.


#74 Aletheia

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:29 AM

Anyway, I have no ill intent for anyone here. I'm just messing around on the interwebz throwing fire!

 



#75 sillybearhappyhoneyeater

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 08:08 AM

I thought about this thread a bit and want to address some of the claims/problems here.

 

1: the heat goes to the head and the head feels like it has a dent:

the heat going to the head is completely normal, but it is important how it feels, because when you meditate, it should always be comfortable. If you feel too excited during meditation, the medicine will not be born.   One of the earliest major treatises on Nei Dan by Chen Tuan (Yin Zhen Ren Huan Dan Ge Zhu) says that you should focus first on the "Northern Sea" (lower dantian) which is the ultimate darkness (non action, non intention) and then the "Zheng Qi" (upright energy) will move to the head by the river cart (moving up the ren mai meridian).   When the energy arrives at the head, you shouldn't force it, just let it be until it is ready to move on its own.  The best thing to do is "bao yi" (contain as one.  Your whole body seems to be one unbroken original qi).   Trying to open the du mai, third eye, or any energy centre is the lower method of neidan, it is not as good as non intention.

 

2: the Dantian is not something you should use the intention to focus on:

the majority of Neidan documents suggest to focus on the Qi Xue point, which is just under the dantian.  The problem is that people don't know how to focus and they think they need to place too much attention.   You don't need to put much attention at all, just breathe to that area through the nose, soften the breath so you can't hear it, and allow your mind to settle in the lower abdomen until it seems like the mind disappears.   The best way is that there is no you, no surroundings, and if you are successful, even no nothingness.   That is how the real pre heaven three treasures are joined.   If you focus on the breath, the intention, and the lower abdomen, that is post heaven and it is called "wai yao" or outer medicine.  outer medicine is good for your health, but not good for spiritual purposes.  It is better to direct the mind to genuine non action, in which the attention and breath are only used as an anchor, not as antagonist.

 

3: you should find a real teacher to learn in person:

I agree with this claim.  The best thing to do is find a real teacher who can teach you face to face.  This can be very hard to do though and many teachers who claim to teach neidan are actually teaching visualization or qi gong.  Both visualization and qi gong can be good though and certainly you can get benefit from them, so don't discount them out of hand.

Studying from people online is possible and certainly I have personally taught a number of people, but out of the thirty or so people I've taught, only about three have been able to manifest what I would consider to be the basic level of Nei Dan practice (able to enter into non action and the pre heaven state).    Most people would be better suited by studying Zen, or just counting their breaths, since those are much easier to learn and also have many good benefits.  After a long time, I've come around to the conclusion that Nei Dan isn't for everyone and that anyone who is going to study it seriously must be very intelligent and very meticulous about practice and research. 

 

Studying on your own is an even bigger risk and there are very few resources out there to tell you if what you are doing is right or wrong.   If you want to meditate on your lower Dantian, you should just focus on that area, don't worry about the rest of your body.  The most important thing is to maintain calm and stability.   Don't mess around with the third eye or heart gate until you actually have a teacher to tell you what to do, because those practices can be very dangerous if you make mistakes. 

I personally believe that meditating on the whole body as one piece is actually safer for most people than the lower dantian and it is much harder to make mistakes that way.   If you are going to practice by yourself, then you need to research twice as seriously as someone who already has a teacher, so think carefully because the potential for bad results is very real and you probably don't want to go down that road.

 

I would also suggest that you check out other traditions which might have schools in your area.   Neidan is one school of meditation among many and there are many other schools which can produce equal results, so be open minded and look around for a master level teacher.  The best situation is you find a master level teacher in an art that works for you, the worst situation is that you find a bad teacher in the art you want to study.

 

Hopefully this has been somewhat useful.


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#76 Aletheia

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:19 PM

Thanks, SB. I have no problem with people thinking I'm a fantasist and a fraud, it's part of the Menippean tradition tbh so I'm actually honoured your suggesting I take up Zen or just count my breaths rather than study neidan.

 

After a long time, I've come around to the conclusion that Nei Dan isn't for everyone and that anyone who is going to study it seriously must be very intelligent

 

Actually counting is a bit difficult for me so I'm just going to look in the mirror and dribble down my chin while I pretend to be a Ferrari instead!


Edited by Aletheia, 08 April 2017 - 12:20 PM.


#77 Aletheia

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:37 PM

 

LET'S GET RETARDED



#78 allinone

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:50 PM

No I didn't say that. I've been thinking philosophy day and night for years.

 

To be blunt, you claim you can change bread to butter with your mind. And now you want to know stages of neidan.

 

It just weird that you ask advice.


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#79 Aletheia

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 01:30 PM

Well it's difficult for me to say where I am, but I have studied other philosophies which are probably helpful for neidan and learned from some great teachers whom shall remain nameless.

 

Anyway, I just read some of Drew's latest blog post and after reading what SB wrote above concerning the LDT it's really helpful. So I'm grateful for that. From now on I'm actually going to put my focus on the LDT rather than just wherever the heat happens to go. I did the breathing decribed in the blog post and can feel the heat dropping on the exhale while my focus is at the navel during the inhale.

 

https://voidisyinyan...antian-and.html

 

 

 

during inhalation, as the meditator is drawing the postnatal breath down into the lungs and down to the navel, the prenatal breath rises up from the lower abdomen, where it joins together with the postnatal breath. During exhalation, as the postnatal breath rises up out of the lungs, the postnatal breath sinks down again to the lower abdominal region ...'

 

So it's not really obvious to me that my LDT has really been consolidated because the heat has been a bit all over the place so from now on I'm going to focus behind navel when I breath and see what happens.

 

I dread to ask.. but, does anyone see any problems with that, am I missing something or leaving something unthought here?


Edited by Aletheia, 08 April 2017 - 01:41 PM.


#80 allinone

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 01:45 PM

Taoist Yoga first chapter is about "Fixing spirit in its original cavity".

 

Read the preface, there are specific detailed instructions how to breath.

 

you get pointers for what needs to arise and develop, when doing your practice.






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