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#81 MIchael80

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 02:17 AM

Hi Pilgrim!

 

You write wonderful answers!

that is a blessing too!

 

Have never been without heartbeat (at least i do not know) but without breath.

And you have put it into great words: one is never be the same and has nothing to do with human things anymore but somehow integrates back into being human.

My growing seems to be to unite these two ever more.

 

all the best to you

Michael


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#82 Pilgrim

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:32 PM

Yes Michael80

It can be this way for you and others for certain I was not the first nor will I be the last.

The state without heartbeat is very profound, you do not exist then, you do in degrees at some point you become aware of having a mind, then aware there is something missing but you can't quite place your finger on what is missing. Then it comes to you that something you have always had going in the background is what is missing.

Then you realize what is missing is a heartbeat. Then you wonder why it matters and listen for it, for a long time you hear nothing then it starts like a rough pump sucking air trying to get it's prime. It beats too fast then it is primed and returns to slow and steady beat.

Before long you realize you have not been breathing either. Then you start and it is perceived as such a horrible unwanted racket of noise and it makes you wonder how you have been able to live with all this noise for so long.

I wish I could say it is a joy to return but it is not. It is with grave sorrow and reluctance. This knowing never passes. But it does not make life worse, no it makes the knowledge that this life will pass to something so peaceful as to make the idea of dying something to one day embrace and when it happens the sentiment will be like this.

'' Oh thank you now I can go home, I have been away so, sooo long.
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#83 Pilgrim

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:40 PM

I would like to dedicate this post to Cauvery.

Dear Cauvery thank you so much, your insistence for me to teach has been helpful to me. In thinking about teaching a wound became known that needed addressed. As much as I want to help others learn it just did not feel correct without mending my own fences with Sri Mukherjee.

Thanks to you we are now communicating again and all is well between us. This is a big relief to my heart.

He is busy right now finishing writing his book he knows I will be teaching and we are going to discuss matters concerning initiating others the first week of February or Second depending on his schedule and mine also.

Thank you once again Cauvery

Also thanks to the site owners and moderation staff for providing such a nice place for all of these discussions.

Edited by Pilgrim, 21 January 2017 - 03:42 PM.

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#84 MIchael80

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 02:38 AM

Hi Pilgrim!
 
SM writes a book about his kriya version?
 
All the best on your way!
michael


Edited by MIchael80, 22 January 2017 - 05:26 AM.


#85 Pilgrim

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 07:18 AM

Hi Michael80,

 

It will be a book concerning his version and his vision of Kriya Yoga and more I am sure.

 

I see you altered your original post. I will answer to the post without your sharing something you may not feel comfortable with.

 

The version of Kriya Yoga that Sri Mukherjee gave me, and instructed me how to initiate and give to others is without a doubt the Original Kriya Yoga.

 

It is without a doubt the Original First Kriya.

 

Sri Mukherjee also taught me the higher Kriyas as well. But let us not dwell on the higher Kriyas they are not possible without the first Kriya.

 

They are also not necessary until they become necessary.

 

The First Kriya is the most important Kriya. No one of any lineage disagrees with this.

 

This thankfully is one of the few things all agree upon.

 

The other thing all agree upon, is that All ( Complete Realization ) can be attained by the first Kriya only Sincerity is needed. The After effect poise of Kriya and blissful addiction are there at the very first Kriya.

 

This is very important. Everything one needs is right there.

 

Here is something I want other Kriya interested persons to think about.

 

If I give you a practice and there are so many parts to it 7 or 8 for example, just how long do you think it will be before you start missing your practices?

 

How long before your mind rebels?

 

How long before the tiredness of the body from the days work and fatigue drag you down. I have heard "Fatigue makes Cowards of us all"

 

How long before you make a quagmire of emotional soup out of your self, as your devotion tugs in one direction and your free time and all the distractions of life cause you to halt all practices maybe, for days at a time, then weeks, then months and one day you think, oh my what is missing, and it dawns on you.

 

My spiritual practices are missing my joy is not so much, my temperament has turned ugly.

 

Then you return with refreshed enthusiasm!!!!  leading you down perhaps new roads as clearly the one you walked was not passable?

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Hmmmm???

 

Still others become repentant backsliders to organizations, seeking forgiveness for not keeping up.

 

This dear reader is an example of being controlled, why be controlled?

 

Control yourself by making nice steady advancement daily, doing a practice that nurtures you, one that is possible and doable, not one that is idealistic at the expense of your life, your minds comfort and your hearts yearnings.

 

If these 3 things cannot be brought into accord then practice will not be consistent and progress will be very slow as to be unnoticeable.

 

Will continue in another post..........


Edited by Pilgrim, 22 January 2017 - 08:48 AM.


#86 Pilgrim

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 08:33 AM

It is unfair to declare such strong statements as without a doubt this is the Original Kriya Yoga without some explanation:

 

The first part I have covered. The simplicity factor and have written on it before. In simplicity there is great profundity.

 

Now to write about what I have discovered over the years that has lead to this conclusion.

 

Some organizations like to make Lahiri Mahasaya out to be a person who was very hush hush about Kriya. The fact of the matter was he wrote quite a bit and there are many books that were published in his time.

 

From some like the correspondence with his students, we find a really great idea of what he was teaching.

 

I will share some of it below and illustrate how it corroborates the tall claims of Original Kriya, as per our lineage, where all work is done in Ajna Chakra / Kutastha and not with mind like a monkey going up and down the tree of the human spine.

 

 

A student writes to Lahiri Mahasaya  drawing the prana up to Ajna to practice a certain number of Japa thinking six centers as six moons at the Ajna center. As in a garland going up and going down - are not the instructions like this.

 

This is also referred to as the Kriyas of the tranquil airs. It also goes on to discuss the great bliss and the sounds heard behind the head at Medulla Oblongata.

 

The students comprehension or description in writing is a bit flawed or lazy (this was between student and teacher where it should be understood, but perhaps not as some are not very good students) as can be seen by the insistence of up and down, but the area where the work is done is correct.

 

 

Later the student is somewhat distressed saying But Baba! after some time it is felt the prana is going down underneath the throat.

 

From this it can be seen the student is not going up and down the spine as so many seem to think is to be done in First Kriya.

 

In fact what he is complaining about commonly occurs, the prana  seeks the corresponding place in the physical spine.

 

I think the reason the idea of going up and down the spine got started is due to misunderstanding. Yes you do feel the centers in the spine. But this is just a mapping.

 

You feel the tips of your fingers at the end of your fingers but the map of what finger tips are is in the brain.

 

So here you have to understand the Centers are all within Ajna Chakra. The centers are also corresponding to physical areas in the body where there are triggers, front and rear, as are often used in Kundalini Yoga.

 

If you go up and down the spine of the meat and bone body with your minds attention instead of the spine that connects the center of all chakras, which is Sushumna you will never enter the yoni between the eyes. You will never enter Sushumna.

 

Without entering the Yoni between the eyes you are not eligible to practice the higher Kriyas because they all take place in there. Once entering the yoni between the eyes then you can practice the higher Kriyas.

 

In person I will make this clear to whomever learns from me.


Edited by Pilgrim, 22 January 2017 - 09:48 AM.


#87 Pilgrim

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 09:43 AM

(Taking both sides of the fence)

 

Are the other schools of Kriya being considered no good?

 

No.

 

No?????

 

It sure seems that way to me buddy!!

 

Here is what I think.

 

This has now been going on since the 1800's certain organizations are responsible for spreading lies and modifications later the lies became established truths. It is doubtful that the current administrators know or care.

 

This has now been going on since the 1800's certain teachers have not done a good job of comprehending from Lahiri Mahasaya and they have spread there misunderstandings. Or there students have it is unknown and unimportant.

 

This has now been going on since the 1800's there are many writings taken out of context and many writings about higher Kriyas from very advanced Kriyabans like Swami Pranabananda that are mistaken for 1st Kriya.

 

The average person is not ready for anything more than first Kriya and that should be the concern of Kriyabans in whom ego has not malformed their own self value.

 

If you learn and practice 1st Kriya well, you will be like the postman Lahiri Mahasaya gave first Kriya to. When asked if he wanted more he replied no I have all I can take right now, any more and i will be unable to work.

 

To speculate about who said what you first need to comprehend what is being discussed or otherwise all kinds of false conclusions are drawn.

 

If false conclusions have been drawn by not comprehending first Kriya then how much more magnified everything being told as higher Kriyas which take place in a dimension that is not the same as the waking life?

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

This is not to say that the alterations and modifications are worthless.


When you alter something enough does it not become something else? Is it not Silly to continue to call broad alterations by the same name?


If I take an Automobile and open up the back end, put bigger tires and and a beefed up suspension so I can carry produce and equipment, which was one of the first modifications of the automobile, is it still an automobile?


Over time has not the evolution of the Automobile from Mr. Fords beginnings continued to evolve and change? 


Would you look at an F-150 Pickup Truck and a Cooper mini car and say yes that is a car and that is a car?


This is what has been done for a very long time now.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Here are some possibilities, certain students who later became teachers did not comprehend their Guru's words correctly. This is easy to see how it could happen.  They loved him but did not understand what he was telling and because of this did not get benefit from the practices. These then altered the practices in a way that worked for them. These then got passed down.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

With Sri Mukherjee he was the youngest of his Gurus Students, his Guru was in his final years when he taught Sri Mukherjee and gave him permission to initiate.

 

The lineage goes like this.

 

Lahiri Mahasaya - Swami Pranabananda Giri alive and together at the same time.

Sri Gyanendranath Mukhopadhyay

Sri Rangin Mukherjee now in his 70's & myself and others all alive in the world today.

 

The lineage is a shallow one with few people separated from the source, so alteration is kept to the minimum, if any at all. Sri Mukherjee never taught until the last couple of years or so and only because of the insistence of a young man in India with a great heart who convinced him to teach.

 

He taught us correctly, because he too made the mistake of going up and down the spine of the body.

 

His teacher caught this and corrected him telling him NO that is not the way it is done and corrected his understanding.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I think the other lineages calling what they practice Kriya will never get these things.

 

There will be great resistance to the idea that what they have been taught and are teaching is a Truck and not a Car.

 

It is too late now though and they will continue to use the word Kriya to describe what they are all about.

Many of them have come up with really good practices. They are however a truck not a car.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Trucks and cars have something in common though.

 

A common ancestor and they are both forms of transportation. This can be said to be true of different practices. 

 

In my experience different practices have lofty theories of why and how they work, they tend to be doable in the short run when spirits are high but the day to day has a way of getting in the way of ideals and theories.

 

it is for the individual to discover.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When I teach I will teach exactly what I was taught without alteration.

 

When there is something I would like to add for the persons consideration I will do so, but make a positive distinction that it is something extra. I know of many something extras that are good.

 

In this way Kriya will remain unaltered.


Edited by Pilgrim, 22 January 2017 - 09:53 AM.

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#88 Cauvery

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:42 PM

Apologize, I was not following the posts on this topic for couple of days.  I was not entirely busy, but went into some contemplation.

 

Dear Pilgrim,  I am glad if any of my words or what I quoted from here and there were helpful in any possible ways. 

 

This post has been an eye opener for me in many ways.  I could even go so far to state, that this is a turning point in many ways -- made me see things in a new light.  This discussion has made, and is continuing to make some positive changes in the way I live outside on the world.  So, I am not going to be shy and not state the true benefits that I am deriving from here.  I want to express my gratitude to this forum (TDB) and everyone that facilitated and contributed to the discussion. 

 

I will be coming back to these forums.  As Marblehead pointed out on another post, this place is addictive.  So many great people, wealth of knowledge and wisdom & most importantly the freedom to discuss without inhibitions.  I have made some great friends in a short time period.

 

I haven't read the last few posts here on this thread yet.   I am looking forward to reading them soon.


Edited by Cauvery, 22 January 2017 - 03:46 PM.

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Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#89 Pilgrim

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Posted Yesterday, 07:56 AM

I am curious about some things.

 

What do people think of Kriya Yoga?

 

What do they think it is all about?

 

I am under the impression that people are becoming more involved with the internet, social media and the idiocy of the news continuously stirring them up. There is an mental and emotional addiction going on and has been for some time, people are glued to Smart Phones staring at tiny screens at every free moment.

 

When will they make the effort to go within?

 

People are becoming more and more extroverted in the internet generated collective gestalt of the mind and less interested in becoming introverted and going within with spiritual practices.

 

The mind, the childish mind has become ruler over all in this time. It stands revealed for the horror it is without souls guidance.

 

This gestalt revels much about the state of the minds of those taking up residence in this Kali Yuga.

 

It is shocking.

 

The soul horrified by this existence away from the true life , the true living hides and lets mind run free and the wickedness of simuli and reaction for the sake of more stimuli and reaction in a true perpetual motion machine of craving input as the individual runs from there own self headlong into turmoil rolls on unabated.

 

The things on facebook are incredible, the way people are mistreating each other and when my wife reads me the stories when I ask why are you upset, I think to myself my God what a hideous trap mankind has created for itself .

 

Delusion within delusion, Maya within Maya, The matrix within the matrix. Very seldom does it seem there are those who seek tranquility, who seek something more.

 

I wonder to myself why? Then I think it is because people just do not know any better and coming from a time before wide spread computer use and long before the internet, it is easy to see that those being born now will never know a time of freedom from the gestalt of the web. Freedom from the inane mind.

 

No they will be slaves of the mind. Slaves of the gestalt of a mental landscapes and unrealistic imaginings of all kinds. To learn to work with the tool that is ones own mind is enough for anyone within the privacy of their own head.

 

Perhaps this is not so bad? Perhaps this will accelerate the development where the mind one day implodes falling in on it's self from the sheer weight of it all. When this happens Soul will be seen, behind the scenes.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

When I was in grade-school I recall looking out the window at the tractor cutting the grass with the box blade behind it. I seemed all so unreal and felt sorrow and pity for the old fellow stuck out in the hot summer sun and sweltering humidity doing this to earn his bread.

 

Then I was aware of he who is behind the eyes looking out through the lenses of the eyes and this he was tranquil at peace timeless this I identified with as the before the this-ness of now and the mind wondered why all this?

 

The heart wanted nothing to do with this existence, this mockery of true life, which is something else quite different but the mind can not recall because it has no part of the true life, it is just for when we find ourselves here. The heart on the other hand ah now the heart knows.

 

The mind and heart in sync, seek salvation from the necessity of incarnation. This becomes a real problem for those who know that this place of taking up human bodies is a stage along the way.

 

There I was in a young body being seen as a young child and forced to go to this class and the one that follows yet before long this body will not be young, then it will grow old then it will die. Where in lies the purpose to live at all? This is a very temporary state with no permanence whatsoever. Why not long ago I was learning to walk and this body keeps growing and changing. I look down at my hands and tell myself remember these hands as they are now for they will not always be.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Now with so many minds all connected it can be seen that the mind and emotions are not unique to any one person as so many process the same information and expel the same vomit over and over the same dramas of who is being born, who is going to school, who likes this person, who is getting a pet, who is doing this thing or that, who is finished doing and is dying, who is this way or that, all repeated over, and over,  on the way to the grave. Tears, Laughter, Joy & Sorrow over and over and over again.

 

This is a hard Sadhana for all. Without fail you will look within, without fail eventually soul will have to be brave and face the music, come out of hiding and be here now raw and unprotected.

 

A few nights back my wife and I went out to dinner and two teenage girls sat in the booth behind my wife. They were loud and full of enthusiasm emotionally charged and entertaining. When we left I said to my wife, you know it is a funny thing those two young girls.

 

She replied what was so funny? I said oh nothing in particular it just struck me funny how young girls at that stage in life.Girls today are no different than when I was their age, it is almost as if there is a programmed mold for that time in life, the topics remain the same even though the specifics have changed. They have no idea just how much that is going to change.

 

 To practice Kriya is to free yourself from the tyranny of the mind and to discover a benediction of tranquility, to live from a position of having a mind but recognizing that it is not everything and to live not from a position of entrapment within the matrix of ones own mind but as the soul that has a mind.

 

If one reads carefully they will see for me it has always been like this.

 

Then the question must come, why are you wasting your valuable little time on this earth sitting on a cushion if you already have this?

 

The answer is a simple one, to bring forth more of that tranquil reality that views from behind the lenses of the eyes into the daily living and there is the reward of greater tranquility and bliss by doing so. The mind is at rest, it is easy and plastic flowing in tranquility ready to do what needs to be done.

 

To live here without this I think must be a torture for many, and explains much about the activities and behavior of the worlds people.

 

To live here with this makes ones time valuable and the comprehension of it's fleeting nature one of bittersweet acceptance that one day I will be going home. For now it is not so bad because of actualizing home of the true life here and now,.

 

Oh this world is so beautiful.......

 

From this is born the hearts desire to make the possibility of this available to others so they too can realize this actualize this and live this as well, because frankly, yes it is just that good.

 

If you do not have this already then these practices will help you realize it has always been within and bring the dweller within out. With the realization you then get the actualization and actualize it in your own life and it grows.


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#90 Cauvery

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Posted Yesterday, 11:37 AM

 

 

I am under the impression that people are becoming more involved with the internet, social media and the idiocy of the news continuously stirring them up. There is an mental and emotional addiction going on and has been for some time, people are glued to Smart Phones staring at tiny screens at every free moment.

 

When will they make the effort to go within?

 

People are becoming more and more extroverted in the internet generated collective gestalt of the mind and less interested in becoming introverted and going within with spiritual practices.

 

The mind, the childish mind has become ruler over all in this time. It stands revealed for the horror it is without souls guidance.

 

This gestalt revels much about the state of the minds of those taking up residence in this Kali Yuga.

 

It is shocking.

 

The soul horrified by this existence away from the true life , the true living hides and lets mind run free and the wickedness of simuli and reaction for the sake of more stimuli and reaction in a true perpetual motion machine of craving input as the individual runs from there own self headlong into turmoil rolls on unabated.

 

The things on facebook are incredible, the way people are mistreating each other and when my wife reads me the stories when I ask why are you upset, I think to myself my God what a hideous trap mankind has created for itself .

 

Delusion within delusion, Maya within Maya, The matrix within the matrix. Very seldom does it seem there are those who seek tranquility, who seek something more.

 

I wonder to myself why? Then I think it is because people just do not know any better and coming from a time before wide spread computer use and long before the internet, it is easy to see that those being born now will never know a time of freedom from the gestalt of the web. Freedom from the inane mind.

 

No they will be slaves of the mind. Slaves of the gestalt of a mental landscapes and unrealistic imaginings of all kinds. To learn to work with the tool that is ones own mind is enough for anyone within the privacy of their own head.

 

Perhaps this is not so bad? Perhaps this will accelerate the development where the mind one day implodes falling in on it's self from the sheer weight of it all. When this happens Soul will be seen, behind the scenes.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I used to think along these lines a lot.  Still do at times.

 

There was this science exhibits done by kids on a middle school.  The was one exhibit that got my attention, it talked about the radiation emitted from the household devices.   The microwave in particular seemed to be the most harmful in house hold devices that we use every day.  Every small thing that we hold like cell phone seems to emit some kind of radiation.  What is cost in terms of health that we paying for these?  We read that cancer rates are climbing steadily.  Some claim there is no relation.

 

I used to think, what is the world coming to.  I read the glaciers are melting, the perennial rivers like Ganges may stop flowing in 25 years.  It looks like, no one seems to care that much.  Whether their kids or grand children will have water to drink.  Every one (including me) seems to be caught up on the day to day life.

 

Eventually, I learned not to get too bothered about these issues.  Anyway, none of this is in my control.  If we talk about Kali yoga, and the horrors that are described that will happen during this era -- we do see many things happening already.  If this is destined or the creator wanted it this way, then what say do I have on these?

 

If we were to agree that it is one omnipotent power that made all.  It is the same power that made microwave and cell phones.  If that power sees fit for the world to indulge this way blindly on things, then what control do I have over that?  This is the way, I learned to console myself. 

The so called great masters, whether it is yoga, or any other spiritual field admit, they are helpless over such changes.  They still don't stop and do nothing.  They are trying to do their part for the good will of others.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It looks like I have very little (if any) control on the outer world.  May be I can control the inner world or how I react to the events that happen in the outer world.  I think yoga comes into play here for me. 

 

As per my wanting to do kriya (personally) or any yoga, there are various reasons.  Not all of them noble.   I see it this way.  Every one seems to need something to cope up with daily life.  Many people turn to drugs to deal with the daily life. Whether it be socially accepted things like caffeine, nicotine, alcohol or the so called harder and illegal drugs.  Prescription medicines also are a way to cope up with the life.   It is just the  inability to face the world and the challenges that it presents.  Some of these substances make life bearable, carry on from one day to another.  We all seem to want peace.  But, different people look for it in different ways at different times, based on where they stand in their own journey.  Some people get overtly religious, spend numerous hours on prayer.  So much, that it sometimes seems unhealthy.  That just seems to be their way of coping with the life.

 

Personally, I would like to move away from some of the ways that cause more damage than others.  Ways that make me end up accumulating more and more karmas.  I need my own ways to live the life, to be at peace with the daily events, to proceed with ease.  Stop accumulating tons more of karmas, for which I have to live more and endure further sufferings.  Search for new ways (solutions) to the new problems that I create every day.  Yoga may act as a tool for me, to put me in the right track.  A track on which I can slowly burn, little by little,  the karmas I accumulated (sanchita karmas). It is easy to describe this.  But, looks like a daunting task.  Yoga might help achieve this, in it's own time line. 

 

The mistake I was doing in the pursuit of yoga, was expecting immediate results.  Thinking more practices will produce more effects (faster).  More practices only made me stop all practices eventually.  My plan now is to take it easy, start slow and steady.  Not take up too much, that is not practical, considering that I need to make a living. 

Clearly, I have made some progress even before I got here.  Here on, I need to find the way that can work for me consistently, build upon what is there already.  So that I can progress instead of regress.   Try to contribute and live in harmony & peace.  I think this by itself is a lot to ask for :)

 

I realize that I only answered to one aspect of your entire post -- just my personal take on it.


Edited by Cauvery, Yesterday, 11:51 AM.

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Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#91 Pilgrim

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Posted Yesterday, 11:42 AM

This is a very good and practical reply I am certain all can agree with. Also perfect motivation for learning and practicing Kriya. Well said. :)


Edited by Pilgrim, Yesterday, 11:43 AM.

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#92 Cauvery

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Posted Yesterday, 12:43 PM

Hi Pilgrim!

 

I have a question regarding personal experience....if you want to talk about that subject.

 

It regards the spirit rulers of the chakras that at some point benedict you and give you some siddhis. Ennio and SM say to only accept the benediction and to deny the siddhis because of attachment issues....and i understand that.

 

However the siddhas of south india (sure you know them) have accepted these siddhis (that is where they got their name from) and said that it is no problem to accept them but the problem is how we are with these.

 

Do you have personal expierence with this things?

 

thanks in advance

Michael

 

You brought up something interesting.  I have read books and heard the stories of many siddhas (we call them siddhars in Tamil) from the south India.  These siddhas did not shy away from siddhis.  They used them.  Even when I was a kid, there used to be these mysterious yogi's wandering around the Arunachala hill.  Due to the crowd, they seemed to have disappeared, or we don't see such yogi's these days around Arunachala hill.

 

These siddhas used the siddhis for the welfare of others.  They never used the siddhis for their own welfare.  If they did, I don't think they would have been siddhas anymore.  And they did not use it indiscriminately to solve everyone's problems.  There seems to be some connection.  They used these outwardly in certain circumstances.

I feel that siddhis by themselves are not bad, like any other thing in the world.  It goes to the motive or intent on how one uses these.  These people were able to accept these siddhis with detachment and use it simply when it seemed such powers were warranted to serve some purposes.   How many can act this way?   Get the siddhis and not get entangled with these powers, and forget the entire path.

 

Going off tangent a bit, I heard Swami Chinmayananda say on one of his talks, that anger is a necessary useful tool.  I was taken aback.  All swamis say anger is evil.  There are books written on controlling anger, by meditation, yoga or whatever method.  Here is a swami telling me anger is a necessary and useful tool.  Then he went on to explain, as long as anger is something that we keep on our coat pocket.  Take it when necessary and apply it, it is useful and necessary tool in life.  He said, anger should be in our control (as a tool) and we should not be in the control of anger.  Then it becomes useful.

 

This made me remember a story that I read as a kid on many comic books.  I miss these comics, they don't print some of these in India anymore.  I am going to narrate this brief story as I remember.  There was a wandering yogi or swami, that used to go all around.  One day he came to the village.  People of the village complained that there is this angry and venomous snake that bit many, causes trouble consistently, some died and villagers are scared and live in fear about their kids.  This swami went to the snake and called it.  The snake came out.  He talked and advised the snake not to engage in evil acts, be good.  The snake listened and seemed to have learned the lesson.  It stopped biting people.  After several years, the swami passed the same village again.  He remembered the snake and went to see it.  The snake could hardly move, it seemed to have been beaten up pretty bad and seemed to be starving.  The swami questioned with compassion, what happened to you?  The snake replied, I just followed your instructions, became good, stopped biting people.  Then the kids started throwing stones and hitting me.  I couldn't even go out and get food.  I ended up in this state.  The swami said, "oh snake, I told you not to bite.  but, did I tell you not to hiss and act aggressive in order to protect yourself, to go out and get the food you need?".  The snake seemed to have learned the lesson properly this time.  This story helped me relate and understand what Swami Chinmayanada was talking about using anger wisely as a tool.  (I don't claim to practice this, mostly anger controls me :)   Just reminding the story helps some times)

 

In the same way, these siddhas from south India, seemed to use the siddhis as tool.  They were never in the sway of siddhis.


Edited by Cauvery, Yesterday, 12:48 PM.

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).






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