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kriya yoga

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#17 Pilgrim

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:50 AM

Thank you.

 

As I wrote before it is in my heart to do. As time goes by it keeps coming up more and more, it seems like I have a job to do.

 

Earlier during the Holidays a good friend of mine & I were having lunch together and the discussion came up about teaching again.

 

He said with all you have experienced and know, you should teach. I replied I know and I get the feeling that if I keep putting it off, something is going to happen to make it unavoidable anyway.

 

As we discussed it I said to him you know with all the work of coordinating for Sri Mukherjee it was not difficult to outline the objectives and then apply participation and watch it all play out, but if I do this it will be different than the traveling Guru.

 

I also explained you know when you teach people this stuff you are introducing them to life changing things that can very deeply effect their entire lives. I just don't know about taking on that kind of responsibility.

 

So many of the traveling teachers hold there 1 to 3 day engagements and mostly talk about their cultural biases and religion to further support heir own claims.

 

I being an American do not care for all of that, and all the different names are like water running down a ducks back with me. Yes the stories are entertaining but none of them really give one on one personal instruction.

 

Yes some of the Schools do give really good group instruction but it is not really personal. I even witnessed one traveling guru who had his older students going around instructing others.

 

It was shocking to see one of them teaching completely different, because of having had Kechari come to me the way it did the traveling Guru found me of more interest than most and while he was discussing instruction with me, he saw me look over at the one instructing incorrectly and knew what I was thinking, he said that one is too busy with fantasy, and hollered at him saying no, no not like that.

 

The other thing my friend and I discussed is when you teach this stuff if you are doing it right, then you need to really take some time to get to know who you are teaching so you can communicate effectively, this is also creating relationships with other people not just putting on shows, classes and then moving on.


Edited by Pilgrim, 10 January 2017 - 08:10 AM.

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#18 dwai

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 08:58 AM

Thank you so much for bringing this up. The very reason why I came here.

I have fallen back to the original Kriya practices that I was initiated into. On the meditation part, I need some input from others here. I stopped the AYP, "I AM" meditation few months back, and took up a mantra / word of my own, after some reading. A bija or root word that is generally thought safe.

In AYP (where I am coming from), it is projected that meditating, or doing japa on OM / AUM is dangerous. And the pranayama from root (muladhara) to crown (sahasrara) is not advised. Cautioned that these things can open crown prematurely. I was doing the root to crown pranayama for 2+ years in Kriya and it did not open my crown prematurely. I was also placing my awareness on the top of the head as taught while practicing Kriya yoga. In the branch of Kriya yoga that I got initiated, meditation on "OM" / "AUM" sound was not taught at beginner level, but it was not thrown out as complete negative also. We were even told that we will eventually listen automatically to the primordial sound in our ears, during practices. I think this did happen to me after several months of practice. I heard something faintly first and then more distinct, during my Kriya practice sessions. It was a rhythmic sound, don't know if it was OM / AUM. It stopped when I stopped the Kriya practices and switched to AYP.

1) I would love to hear about alternate meditation practices from others
2) Is meditating or doing japa on OM" / "AUM dangerous? I have read views favoring and opposing this. But, I would like to get the views of those who have meditated or did japa primarily on the OM / AUM sound.

Btw. I did 2 posts today as replies. When I tried to reply to another post, the system says I have exceeded my daily limit for posts. Am I allowed only 2 posts per day? For how long does this restriction last?

 

what is AYP? What's their lineage and adhikara (authority) to teach anything?


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#19 Pilgrim

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:52 AM

what is AYP? What's their lineage and adhikara (authority) to teach anything?

No one knows what the lineage is because the website owner, book writer, refuses to explain his / her / their origin in favor of being completely anonymous.

 

The most that is said is that the techniques are derived from many different places.

 

In other words their is no lineage. That or it is a dodge to prevent getting sued by the TM crowd, take your pick. You know TM charges $1,000.00 to receive a Mantra the last I looked into it a few years back.

 

AYP was an experiment years ago, it turned out like it has on the website.

 

As far as Authority is concerned the only Authority observed are the things mutually agreed on. That and of course " The Guru is in you."

 

Coming from a lineage based system it might be surprising to hear that I do not find a lack of lineage or authority to teach  objectionable at all.

 

Authority is given not by the Teacher of the Teacher but by the consent of the individual alive and present drawing breath that derives a value from learning, otherwise it is not earned and has no meaning.

 

Far too many say look here, look at at my impressive credentials, which is a bit like taking the achievements of ones predecessors as their own, all the while saying that the ones who came before the one teaching are the guru etc... all the while just bolstering themselves up.

 

The most important question is does it even matter so long as those learning are satisfied?


Edited by Pilgrim, 10 January 2017 - 09:52 AM.

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#20 dwai

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:34 AM

No one knows what the lineage is because the website owner, book writer, refuses to explain his / her / their origin in favor of being completely anonymous.

 

The most that is said is that the techniques are derived from many different places.

 

In other words their is no lineage. That or it is a dodge to prevent getting sued by the TM crowd, take your pick. You know TM charges $1,000.00 to receive a Mantra the last I looked into it a few years back.

 

AYP was an experiment years ago, it turned out like it has on the website.

 

As far as Authority is concerned the only Authority observed are the things mutually agreed on. That and of course " The Guru is in you."

 

Coming from a lineage based system it might be surprising to hear that I do not find a lack of lineage or authority to teach  objectionable at all.

 

Authority is given not by the Teacher of the Teacher but by the consent of the individual alive and present drawing breath that derives a value from learning, otherwise it is not earned and has no meaning.

 

Far too many say look here, look at at my impressive credentials, which is a bit like taking the achievements of ones predecessors as their own, all the while saying that the ones who came before the one teaching are the guru etc... all the while just bolstering themselves up.

 

The most important question is does it even matter so long as those learning are satisfied?

 

Thanks for your answer. Authority or more aptly Adhikara doesn't come by credentials per se. However, in a lineage, it comes with an affirmation from one's teacher. I am not entirely sure how well someone can learn these lineage-oriented systems without a teacher. 

 

For instance, I have started to teach Taiji in my tradition because both my teachers encouraged me to teach. I would not teach if that were not the case. I mean that kind of authority/adhikara.

 

Of course, people can make this stuff up too...and there are more charlatans in the spiritual world than not...

 

That being said, what you wrote is also relevant. If someone can teach well, and has the experience and knowledge (and importantly the realization), and the students feel the benefit of said teaching, then who are we to question it?


Edited by dwai, 10 January 2017 - 10:36 AM.

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#21 Pilgrim

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:37 AM

 

Of course, people can make this stuff up too...and there are more charlatans in the spiritual world than not...

Very true.


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#22 dwai

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:29 AM

Anyone is familiar with Sri M vis-a-vis Kriya Yoga? I read some of his books, including  his autobiography and his commentary on three principal Upanishads, and was extremely impressed.


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#23 SeekerOfHealing

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:12 PM

I studied kriya yoga and practiced it. No worth unless you have a realized teacher/guru, but for most people would be fine to keep mind peaceful and it brings some interesting experiences tho.

#24 Pilgrim

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:19 PM

I studied kriya yoga and practiced it. No worth unless you have a realized teacher/guru, but for most people would be fine to keep mind peaceful and it brings some interesting experiences tho.

Who taught you and which lineage did you learn from? or was it all from books and internet?


Edited by Pilgrim, 10 January 2017 - 12:19 PM.


#25 Cauvery

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:01 AM

No one knows what the lineage is because the website owner, book writer, refuses to explain his / her / their origin in favor of being completely anonymous.

 

 

 

"his / her / their origin."

 

Pilgrim, you pointed out on the original thread, when this kriya topic was not branched, "Yogani or Yoganis".  It didn't strike much when I was reading that.  This is good observation which I failed to notice.

 

After rereading that post  and this one, if I look at this as more than one person, it seen ti make lot of sense .  When I made inquiries about book purchase or whenever I sent an email to Yogani, I got the reply within one hour (max. 3 hours) consistently in the past several years.  I thought, wow this person must be working 24/7 diligently.  Thinking back, the tenor of the email replies and several posts in the forum itself are self-contradictory.  In one post Yogani is against criticism of other traditions and Gurus.  In another post like the brought up here; he ( he / she / they) laugh ( are laughing) at the degrading insults of Guru's and promoting their system.  I feel that there is the possibility, it is more than one that use the handle in the forum, or reply from that one yahoo id.

This explains the contradictions, unless it is one person who seems to give the impression of multiple people, and is available day and night, every single day to respond to emails within an hour or two consistently.


Edited by Cauvery, 11 January 2017 - 07:08 AM.

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Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#26 Pilgrim

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 07:51 AM

Who knows, could very well be the case or not either way it does not really matter. What matters most is if the one receiving is satisfied if not , well time to move on that's all.


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#27 Cauvery

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:03 AM

I studied kriya yoga and practiced it. No worth unless you have a realized teacher/guru, but for most people would be fine to keep mind peaceful and it brings some interesting experiences tho.

 

I would go part of the way with you on this, but not entirely.  Whether kriya yoga or any other yoga for that matter, when taught by an external guru, is certainly different.  Self learning can be dangerous at times.

 

In his book, "Raja Yoga", Swami Vivekananda strongly cautions about the dangers of practicing Raja yoga without the guidance of a guru.  Similarly, we see masters like Swami Sivananda, taking a stance that yoga should be taught by a guru.

 

These masters and their views are labeled as "traditional", "non-scientific", "not valid in this information era", etc.,  The very same masters have described yoga practices that they say are okay to self-learn and practice. Kriya yoga,  is considered relatively safer path for house holders, practices are split into multiple levels, for beginners etc. 

 

I can't agree entirely with a blanket statement that all practices of kriya yoga, unless taught by an external guru, are worthless.

 

Swami Satyananda Saraswati explains  beautifully in his book, "Kundalini Yoga".  One needs an external guru for various practices.  If one does not have an external guru, then by internally visualizing their guru, one can start some of the practices.

 

After all, the external world is nothing but a projection of our inner reality.  The external guru is also a projection of our inner reality.  Seeker comes before that which is sought -- including guru.   Without seeker (for knowledge) where is the sought (guru)?  

 

We all need to start somewhere.  I don't see any great harm in taking up some yoga practices on our own, that are given by some known, well respected and acknowledged teachers.

 

Coming back to this new AYP pitch with the catch phrase "guru is in you" repeated million times.  The guru can be internal or external or both at different times.  Claiming only our method is modern, scientific, revolutionary.  Really?  there is nothing new in the catch phrase or any of the AYP teachings that I have seen.


Edited by Cauvery, 11 January 2017 - 08:08 AM.

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Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#28 SeekerOfHealing

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:07 AM

When I was practicing kriya yoga I had experience that Lahiri Mahasaya come to me and initiate me, very interesting experience but for me kriya is just qigong with more stretching. I learned from various sources and created my own synthesis based on Lahimi Mahasaya writings which I have somewhere but this was when I was young and without much realization.

I highly doubt that kriya yoga can bring person to realization beside peace and just balance which is good ground for realization tho.

Edited by SeekerOfHealing, 11 January 2017 - 08:08 AM.

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#29 Pilgrim

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:16 AM

When I was practicing kriya yoga I had experience that Lahiri Mahasaya come to me and initiate me, very interesting experience but for me kriya is just qigong with more stretching. I learned from various sources and created my own synthesis based on Lahimi Mahasaya writings which I have somewhere but this was when I was young and without much realization.

I highly doubt that kriya yoga can bring person to realization beside peace and just balance which is good ground for realization tho.

This is a good point of view to have. No false expectations.

 

I am curious, if you do not mind sharing? After this phase of your life what took place? What have you discovered to be effective?


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#30 SeekerOfHealing

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:36 AM

I was very sick kid so when I was around 16 (I practice various meditations and methods from 11-12 years of age). I got to the stage when prana enter the sushumna. It's create bubble of energy around you, very strong almost physical bubble and no emotions at all there I mean no negativity, not lust, not bad moods, no mood swings. Very interesting but not permanent state, generally I have very positive opinion on kriya as it was one of first system that brings me into some kind of realization, lights and supernatural thing but all those things are gone - maybe I practiced it wrong or something was missing to glue those experiences.

To share the system I would need to revise it again which will not happen very soon. (mind you i did it when i was 16 thinking that I knew everything because nobody had same experiences as me so there are probably many errors in practice)

Edited by SeekerOfHealing, 11 January 2017 - 08:36 AM.

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#31 Pilgrim

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:41 AM

My apologies I was not clear.

 

What I meant was did you discover something after this phase of your life? Did you take up some other practice or perhaps you simply continued to not only grow from your earlier work but grow into it?

 

Allot of times it can take time to grow into what comes swiftly.



#32 SeekerOfHealing

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:05 AM

Well after I stop practiced kriya I became more rough and dry (as you can see my responses on the forum :)) that why actually I can consider to practice some of those levels again. I practice everything and looking for genuine practices/talisman/lineages everything and I had been blessed thru life with wonderful practices and insight but actually I didn't come to the final conclusion. The stage 'seeing the Dao' which happen to me one time was proof that there is place in ourselves without suffering and without birth and death etc. but all people I met and traditions and practices do not reach to that experience.





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