Jump to content


Photo

Humiliating insults against venerable traditions / gurus - Acceptable in AYP forums

traditions gurus ayp smear

  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#1 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:48 AM

The intention of this post is not a reverse smear campaign;  rather it is made with the intention to bring awareness to seekers and new comers, to watch out, do a sanity check, ask basic questions of any system before diving deep in -- to something like advanced yoga.  Not feel disillusioned after years like me.  I doubt that I will be allowed to post this in AYP.

 

Please check out the following AYP forum post by Yogani (the anonymous founder and teacher of AYP).  This post by yogani, with the title, "Those Gurus......",  has brought to attention, to a site called,  "Stripping the Gurus".  This "Stripping the Guru's" website that Yogani felt compelled to bring to the attention of every one start a new thread on his forum (he says,  he just laughed and does not want to become like these Gurus!)  demeans, insults just about every guru and tradition in the world.   When I clicked the link and read some, I was shocked -- scroll down on the link to the bottom to see the Table of Contents, which yogani says he looked at and "laughed".   Please checkout the stripping gurus link and decide for yourself.  Ramakrishna paramahansa was called a pedophile.  Dalai Lama, Vivekananda, Paramahansa Yogananda, J. Krishnamurthi... list goes on,  none were spared.  Grave insults, humiliation with hardly any facts to corroborate.  It does not leave any respectable teacher from any tradition in the past.  I understand Yogani did not post the original link.  But, he felt compelled to start a new thread with this link, he considered to leave a smear campaign against highly regarded teachers/gurus was acceptable and welcome in AYP Forums. He said he laughs when he read it, he thinks it was funny.  I think it is ironic.  There is also a pitch for his system in the end of the post, how different AYP is and all...   :)

 

Link to the post made by yogani in AYP forums:  Those gurus -- wheat and chaff

Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic Page:  of 2
yogani
USA
5066 Posts
 
Posted - Feb 13 2007 :  11:51:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
quote:
Originally posted by Swami Vajra
 
Check out www.strippingthegurus.com and read some disturbing truths about some of the big name Gurus. No one is perfect, we must keep our balance at all levels of knowledge.
 
Hi Swami Vajra:
 
Wow. Thanks for that. The table of contents made me laugh until I cried. 
 
But no need to cry anything but happy tears. The secret is out... 
 
The guru is in all of us. 
 
And for the benefit of all those spiritual teachers and gurus -- without them we would not be where we are today, and where we are today is a vast improvement over where we were a century ago. To a large degree, they were victims as much as anyone. We gave them the power over us, and as the old saying goes, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" ... at least in worldly affairs it can. 
 
AYP is bound and determined to be something different ... an entirely written teaching that cannot abuse its readers (hopefully). An exciting experiment!
---------------
 
PS: Also see this lesson called, "The Difference Between Enlightenment and Perfection": http://www.aypsite.org/260.html 
 

 

If such ridiculing of every master in the world in the worst possible way; humiliating them, a smear campaign with no facts to support them as some one pointed in that same post -- this is acceptable on the AYP forums.  It seems like, it was subtly even welcomed.   But, this same system (AYP) won't even listen to constructive criticism or open questions about it's methods!

 

If this is not Hypocrisy, then what is???  Apologize for using a strong word, the point here warrants it.  Yogani says that he does not want to end up like the gurus on that list.  Whatever be the case, the gurus that were smeared on that link, at least came out openly and helped people, their disciples and the world in general.  It is easy to hide oneself (may be there is a strong reason he wants to stay anonymous) and laugh at the humiliating insults of gurus from various venerable traditions.  His own words, that he does not want to end up like them or on that list, shows clearly, that he want to sit behind a veil and promote his teachings, with the fear that if the world knows who he is, he might get ridiculed!!!  


Edited by cauvery, 06 January 2017 - 10:26 AM.

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#2 Jonesboy

Jonesboy

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 457 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:06 AM

I think Yogani might have meant that as a joke.

I know he doesn't like people to smear guru's and I know I have been moderated for saying a person was fake.

What he doesn't like is for any real guru to show up and start posting about stuff.

Or course everyone is SOOO AYP that they wouldn't listen to a different view anyways.

#3 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:39 AM

I think Yogani might have meant that as a joke.

I know he doesn't like people to smear guru's and I know I have been moderated for saying a person was fake.

What he doesn't like is for any real guru to show up and start posting about stuff.

Or course everyone is SOOO AYP that they wouldn't listen to a different view anyways.

 

If he felt it was a joke, he could have had a laugh privately.  He felt compelled to bring this ugly stuff to the attention of the practitioners of AYP and the public.

He may not have meant it.  Then again, we don't know if he meant or not, do we?   I have observed that many a times when people want to say something, and they don't want to say it directly for several obvious reasons, the message gets passed off like a joke, an offhand observation.  If it stopped right there with his laugh, then your explanation would have been plausible, but his laugh is followed by his pitch (as usual)  on how AYP is SOOO different in so many ways (AYP is different from what????   when some one says different, there is some thing else they are comparing, in this case the only other thing that is there is the grave insults and humiliations to the well respected persons/gurus and venerable traditions).   It looks very well thought out and tailored post to me.  

 

If yogani feels it is alright to post something so demeaning like the post above and leave it on AYP public  forum for years -- after his laugh.   I guess there should be no issue that I am bringing this to the attention of seekers in this forum -- where I am given an opportunity to express my thoughts and have my own laughs :D .  I clearly stated my intentions to bring this up on the first line.

Each one of us think something is funny, that others might feel are demeaning, humiliating and insulting and potentially damaging.   I guess responsible adults (especially teachers with large audience as AYP claims) should think carefully, if their private laughing stock is appropriate to bring to the attention of public "open" forum and have the laugh there.    The link he posted and admired in open forum, does openly humiliate and insult others.  If it is an average person, a new comer, it may be fine with some excuse.   This is the founder, the self proclaimed teacher of the new scientific yoga system that is revolutionary and has brought transformation for the humanity in large part.  The top man on the totem pole, as perceived by AYP practitioners.

Some one here in TDB -- I think ex-moderator from AYP -- said that Christi seems to be Yogani's UK Lieutenant.  It was Christi's observation that it was a "smear campaign" and it is not appropriate to have it AYP.  I just came across the post, read it and agree with Christi's opions.  Christi is considered as AYP leader, a long term AYP practitioner, some one that arranges and conducts AYP retreats. Christi felt that it was  inappropriate to bring something like this up in AYP "public forums" and let it stay.  There is talk about being fair and applying the rules equally to all in that same AYP thread.   I don't think anyone with responsibility there paid attention to that part.  The point is, the post stayed on AYP and it still stays as of the time of this post in TDB.   However minor criticisms or questions about the AYP system are censored.  I was highlighting this hypocrisy also.

 

Sorry Jonesboy, whichever way I look at this, not just me, many ardent AYP followers / leaders feel disgusted with the post yogani made.    Why would someone highlight (and have the compulsion to bring it to public domain), something that smears, humiliates venerable traditions and well respected teachers/gurus, in the worst possible way without any corroborating facts?   

This post is just one example, there are  others like this.  As I pointed out, this is my second and final thread about AYP.   I don't see the need to bring up any more new topics about AYP.   Guess, I have conveyed what I wanted to convey.   However when some one replies to these two threads, I will respond with my views.  


Edited by cauvery, 06 January 2017 - 11:33 AM.

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#4 Kar3n

Kar3n

    Dao Bum

  • Concierge
  • Pip
  • 1047 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:00 AM

I am not, nor have I ever been an AYP practitioner, but to come to another forum and post the same quote in two different threads says you have an axe to grind. You are allowed to express yourself, but not to the detriment or expense of others who are not here to defend themselves or their practices.

 

Are you not doing the same thing here that you are accusing Yogani of? You say you are not, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is usually a duck.

 

AYP has laid a good foundation for a lot of people who have moved from there to other things, such as yourself finding your way here; so it can't be all bad.

 

Instead of looking back, why not look forward and explore some practices to help move beyond what AYP taught you and to rise above the misgiving you have?


  • cheya, manitou, Brian and 4 others said thanks
Recognize mind has never once had a thought that wasn't your own choice already.
Mindfully choose compassionate thoughts that are a pleasure to experience and the urge to silence thought passes.
With no urges, the need to cling to some thought passes with it.
Unlimited love,
-Bud

#5 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:40 AM

I am not, nor have I ever been an AYP practitioner, but to come to another forum and post the same quote in two different threads says you have an axe to grind. You are allowed to express yourself, but not to the detriment or expense of others who are not here to defend themselves or their practices.

 

Are you not doing the same thing here that you are accusing Yogani of? You say you are not, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is usually a duck.

 

AYP has laid a good foundation for a lot of people who have moved from there to other things, such as yourself finding your way here; so it can't be all bad.

 

Instead of looking back, why not look forward and explore some practices to help move beyond what AYP taught you and to rise above the misgiving you have?

 

 

Oh come one.  Give me a break.  I have heard all of this, for a very long time.

 

I agree with you, when you say,

"if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is usually a duck."  .

 

Exactly the point I was trying to make.  Thank You.

 

Yesterday, I made one post introducing myself, and I am an ex-ayp practitioner.  This one just came out as a reply to answer in that  post.  Then as I explained, I felt compelled to post it separately.  I REMOVED this from other post and posted the topic separate.  First one was introduction, second post was entirely about something I saw on AYP.   I clearly stated this will be my last post on AYP.  I wrote all these including my intention for the post in plain English.   Did you even read my post entirely, before you jumped in the band wagon to defend AYP, it's for greater good, etc., and label me as a whatever (just like how it happens in AYP forums.)

 

If yogani can post something that he felt compelled to post,that he needs to highlight, it is for greater good, and for the welfare of those like me.   Yeah, I get all that.

"In the same way", if I feel compelled to point that out something clearly wrong, instead of replying to the topic, you show the finger back and label me as some one with ulterior motives, whatever.   

 

Please save your advice, and telling people what is good and bad for them.  Glad this is not AYP.  Here, I can question, investigate and find out what is good for me.   Not told by others directly or indirectly.

 

Did I not state my intentions clearly?  Laid out, that this the only post (first was introduction) that I will make about AYP.   If you don't trust my intentions, that's fine.   Only, I would know what my intentions are, right?   As I pointed out on the reply to Jonesboy, only Yogani can knows what his intentions are in highlighting that demeaning post.  Some are ready to jump, and eager to give yogani the benefit of doubt.  This is fine.  What is bothering is, the same eagerness to jump and label those, that have opposing views to AYP.  We don't get the same benefit of doubt?

 

You feel it is unfair on my part to post something from another forum and the persons there don't get the fair chance to defend themselves?  Just read your own statements and ask yourself this question.  Many well respected and well known gurus that were smeared, humiliated and insulted on the post that Yogani started with link to "Stripping Guru's" in AYP's  forum,  are no more, as in they passed away.  Were they afforded a fair chance to come and defend for themselves in AYP "Public forum"???   Were the traditions that were offended brutally given fair opportunity to talk for themselves in AYP???  Talk about fairness! 

 

Many people have come here and fervently defended AYP and labeling people who talk against it, like me.  These AYP defenders are also offered equal opportunity to voice their opinions here.  On the other hand AYP simply cannot stand any criticism; people that criticize get labeled as outcast, not just on AYP.  Even in other forums like this; just go to Amazon and read the critical reviews for AYP books.  Most people that wrote critical reviews in Amazon are labeled people with ulterior motives.  There is something seriously wrong about us, we all need some serious help (perhaps from AYP), right?  It is just disgusting to hear from people (parrots as TI calls) about fairness, greater good, etc. etc.   Please save it.


Edited by cauvery, 06 January 2017 - 12:45 PM.

  • gendao said thanks for this

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#6 Leif

Leif

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 295 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:06 PM

So...which one of those fake gurus do we discuss first?


  • damdao said thanks for this

#7 OldWolf

OldWolf

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 4318 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami, Florida
  • Interests:Practice

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:24 PM

There's been many threads on here about the horrors of AYP. It's a dead horse, so we can all stop beating it. 


  • C T, dawei, silent thunder and 1 other said thanks

#8 C T

C T

    Gap Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 7309 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In a raindrop
  • Interests:Charlie's Tango..
    November's Echo

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:36 PM

There's been many threads on here about the horrors of AYP. It's a dead horse, so we can all stop beating it. 

too many


  • Cauvery said thanks for this

Om svabhava shuddha sarva dharma svabhava shuddho 'ham!
Om shunyata jnana vajra svabhava atmako 'ham! 
Om ah hum hra phat!
Om muni muni mahamuni Shakyamuniye svaha! 
  
Appearances are mind, mind is emptiness, emptiness is spontaneous presence, spontaneous presence is self-liberation.
(9th Karmapa)
 

The objects perceived by sentient beings 

are like the appearance of illusions;

Sentient beings themselves are in the nature of illusion

they all arise through dependent origination. - Nagarjuna


#9 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:38 PM

There's been many threads on here about the horrors of AYP. It's a dead horse, so we can all stop beating it. 

 

 

I agree with you and realize there is no point.  I new and I am still discovering the many threads here on horrors of AYP.  I just saw two, so far.  I have only heard conundrums praising AYP.  This is new to me.  So, please do give me a break.

 

I just made one post highlighting what I wanted to say on my part.   I clearly laid out that I am moving on and I will not make any new posts about AYP. 

 

But, if people feel compelled to come here and defend on the post I already made,  and turn this entirely about me (as always), then I just feel the need to respond.  I know I will get over this also.


Edited by cauvery, 06 January 2017 - 12:42 PM.

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#10 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:41 PM

So...which one of those fake gurus do we discuss first?

 

you pick.  assuming that is a joke :)


Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#11 C T

C T

    Gap Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 7309 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In a raindrop
  • Interests:Charlie's Tango..
    November's Echo

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:43 PM

I dont think Karen was trying to defend on the post you already made. Probably you were the only one trying to defend on that post you already made. What Karen actually did is precisely what you yourself have said you will do henceforth: Move on. 


  • dawei, Leif and Kar3n said thanks for this

Om svabhava shuddha sarva dharma svabhava shuddho 'ham!
Om shunyata jnana vajra svabhava atmako 'ham! 
Om ah hum hra phat!
Om muni muni mahamuni Shakyamuniye svaha! 
  
Appearances are mind, mind is emptiness, emptiness is spontaneous presence, spontaneous presence is self-liberation.
(9th Karmapa)
 

The objects perceived by sentient beings 

are like the appearance of illusions;

Sentient beings themselves are in the nature of illusion

they all arise through dependent origination. - Nagarjuna


#12 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:54 PM

I dont think Karen was trying to defend on the post you already made. Probably you were the only one trying to defend on that post you already made. What Karen actually did is precisely what you yourself have said you will do henceforth: Move on.

 

 

Well, I don't know Karen.  I don't know her background.  If she and some others moved on, that indicates that they were once in the state where I am and moved on from there.  I just got here (in this state), I will also move on.  Everything in life moves on...

 

She thought it was unfair on my part to post something here citing those people cannot defend.  From what I read, it looked to me that she also drew conclusions about me.  The talk about "duck" and all.

 

When we are on the subject of fairness, I don't see anything wrong on my part to point out, that those offended on the post that I pointed out were also not offered opportunity to defend for themselves.

 

Just give me the same opportunity and space that others had, before they moved on.  Is that fair? 

 

One more thing on horrors of AYP being old news here.  Let's try to substitute XYZ for AYP on this post  just for a minute, and look at the post.   Is it okay for XYZ system to engage in the kind of bashing that I described, and not let the people bashed a fair opportunity to defend for themselves?  But, go on curtailing people that talk against the XYZ.   What I am getting at is, AYP may be old news here.      Was this particular topic about bashing gurus and traditions, talked here?  Even if it was, were there not similar posts on some subject from time to time.   You can't expect new comer to learn every thing about the forum and find the entire history before posting their views.   I get it, I am learning.

I should also be able to express my feelings in one post, without being told to move on, just because it's old news here?   Did you stop to think that I may not know all the history that you people are discussing.   I just came across couple of posts, that opened my eyes.  Perhaps you should put yourselves on my shoes and try to see it.  That may give way from the narrow perspective of telling others to move on, without understanding where they stand.


Edited by cauvery, 06 January 2017 - 01:15 PM.

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#13 Jetsun

Jetsun

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 3954 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Reality

Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:29 PM

Guru's need extreme scrutiny and criticism, because many if not most are dodgy in some way!
  • Aetherous, Moonbar, dawei and 1 other said thanks

#14 Cauvery

Cauvery

    Dao Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:travel, trains, linguistics, yoga, tantra, ocean, waves, wandering, sky-gazing

Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:35 PM

And yes, I was defending my post.  Still see nothing wrong with that.  I said, I will move on "henceforth" from posting new topics on AYP.  I did state I will continue to respond on this post.

 

If people think this subject is not relevant, why the need to come here and post, talk about fairness and label others?  If it is a dead horse, perhaps the people that are pointing it as dead horse and old history should leave it alone, first!  why bother to respond on dead horse, history?

 

If Karen has moved on, why does she bother to even come here and post?  Advising me to move on.  Those that moved on, have "moved on".  They don't look back and tell others to move on.  That shows they have not really "moved on"

 

If no one responds further, will I have anything more to say on this post (subject)?   I don't think so.  As long as some one feels that they should come here and give their 2 cents on the topic, all the while calling it as history & not relevant.   That is going to prompt some response.   Human nature?


Edited by cauvery, 06 January 2017 - 01:45 PM.

Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham, Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer, Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu, Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.   

(From Nirvana shatakam by Adi Shankara - translation by Swami Vivekananda)

I am neither the mind, nor the intellect, nor the ego, nor the mind-stuff; I am neither the body, nor the changes of the body; I am neither the senses of hearing, taste, smell, or sight, Nor am I the ether, the earth, the fire, the air; I am Existence Absolute, Knowledge Absolute, Bliss Absolute - I am He, I am He. (Shivoham, Shivoham).


#15 C T

C T

    Gap Bum

  • The Dao Bums
  • Pip
  • 7309 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In a raindrop
  • Interests:Charlie's Tango..
    November's Echo

Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:46 PM

Well, I don't know Karen.  I don't know her background.  If she and some others moved on, that indicates that they were once in the state where I am and moved on from there.  I just got here (in this state), I will also move on.  Everything in life moves on...

 

She thought it was unfair on my part to post something here citing those people cannot defend.  From what I read, it looked to me that she also drew conclusions about me.  The talk about "duck" and all.

 

When we are on the subject of fairness, I don't see anything wrong on my part to point out, that those offended on the post that I pointed out were also not offered opportunity to defend for themselves.

 

Just give me the same opportunity and space that others had, before they moved on.  Is that fair? 

 

One more thing on horrors of AYP being old news here.  Let's try to substitute XYZ for AYP on this post  just for a minute, and look at the post.   Is it okay for XYZ system to engage in the kind of bashing that I described, and not let the people bashed a fair opportunity to defend for themselves?  But, go on curtailing people that talk against the XYZ.   What I am getting at is, AYP may be old news here.      Was this particular topic about bashing gurus and traditions, talked here?  Even if it was, were there not similar posts on some subject from time to time.   You can't expect new comer to learn every thing about the forum and find the entire history before posting their views.   I get it, I am learning.

I should also be able to express my feelings in one post, without being told to move on, just because it's old news here?   Did you stop to think that I may not know all the history that you people are discussing.   I just came across couple of posts, that opened my eyes.  Perhaps you should put yourselves on my shoes and try to see it.  That may give way from the narrow perspective of telling others to move on, without understanding where they stand.

 

Not sure you understood correctly. All i am saying is i think Karen was not being critical in the way you assumed, rather, she merely encouraged you to move on instead of lugging this baggage around. Its not some treasure in a sack now, is it? 

 

If indeed you are sincere, you will find that a more amenable and tactful approach with others usually works better overall. 

 

Nobody is denying you an avenue to air your views. We generally are quite caring and empathetic - when you get a better feel for this place, you will come to see that. 


Edited by C T, 06 January 2017 - 01:47 PM.

  • cheya, Kar3n and Cauvery said thanks for this

Om svabhava shuddha sarva dharma svabhava shuddho 'ham!
Om shunyata jnana vajra svabhava atmako 'ham! 
Om ah hum hra phat!
Om muni muni mahamuni Shakyamuniye svaha! 
  
Appearances are mind, mind is emptiness, emptiness is spontaneous presence, spontaneous presence is self-liberation.
(9th Karmapa)
 

The objects perceived by sentient beings 

are like the appearance of illusions;

Sentient beings themselves are in the nature of illusion

they all arise through dependent origination. - Nagarjuna


#16 Brian

Brian

    He's a very naughty boy!

  • Steward+
  • Pip
  • 7604 posts
  • Gender:None Selected
  • Location:He's not here.

Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:55 PM

<shrug>

Seems a curious way to introduce one's self to the forum membership and administrative team but time will tell.

Welcome to the forum!
  • Marblehead, dawei, Kar3n and 1 other said thanks
"Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow."




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users