How much time do you need to recieve a transmission?

[A.A.Khokhlov]

Dear A.A.Khokhlov,

 

I cant asnwer because this is the biggest secret of Nei Dan and topic under oath as you know.

 

I am kiding a little, I hope you understand.

 

You are Master not me,I am simple  seeker and know nothing.You as authority is to better explain this topic.

 

Ormus

 

Thank you Ormus. It shows us that it would be really hard to find a symbolism in time span as it is one of things which are pretty definite.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

[Ormus]

Dear A.A.Khokhlov,

 

you are welcome.

 

I find your reply sirious,but whant to ask is this your official and final statement regarding times and symbolism how WLP define them?

 

Ormus

[SeekerOfHealing]

Time is not real because it's relative. 

[SeekerOfHealing]

Are relative and conventional things are essentially not real as you will not find them anywhere while investigating. Your idea of time do not make it real. 

[Ormus]

There is one more thing regarding time,simbolism and work.Which I think it is neglected here and this is sudden realisation with people of High Virtue who employ Wu Wei working on Xing Gong and in second realise Xing and Ming.Now how about time?

 

Ormus

Edited January 5, 2017 by Ormus

[Ormus]

There is only now,present.

 

Ormus

[effilang]

The cultivation of jing is said to bring a practitioner to a state where there are no more dreams.

 

***No more bad dreams or nightmares as the Yin aspects have been refined completely, but still nice dreams : )

You can sense it as practice progresses. The dreams become more and more pleasant and more and more lucid.

Edited January 5, 2017 by effilang

[Brian]

***No more bad dreams or nightmares as the Yin aspects have been refined completely, but still nice dreams : )

You can sense it as practice progresses. The dreams become more and more pleasant and more and more lucid.

This has been my experience.

[effilang]

Are yin and yang real?

 

Only when we think about it : )

Edited January 6, 2017 by effilang

[Jeff]

I have experienced that too and it makes sense since any type of cultivation should decrease yin in the organs and increase yang.

 

But I did read a few first hand accounts regarding the specific cultivation of jing taking place without any dreams at all. I think that I have experienced this too, intermittently.

 

It might be my zen bias taking hold, but I am reluctant to shift the emphasis away from emptiness and yin-yang dynamics. They seem to be both more important and more influential than the things you can encounter on the way.

I am with you on this debate. Dreams are really just local mind translations of the underlying energies. With increased mental clarity, dreams drop.

[awaken]

I don't have dreams since I opened the emptiness many years ago.

 

If I receive too much bad chi, I will have a lot of noise in my sleep, but still no dream.

 

Before I opened the emptiness, I had a lot of dreams. These dreams were getting more clear when I was opening the emptiness. They were very strange, very similar to illusion, just like I was there, very real. These dreams were not long, only a short moment and disappeared very soon.

[Brian]

My dreams now are almost entirely what I consider to be "dreamwork" -- lucid dreams in which I am learning or observing, or I am helping someone, or (occasionally) I am teaching. I say "almost entirely" because I sometimes have dreams I am aware I had but can't remember. I used to have lucid flying dreams pretty often that were a lot of fun but they've stopped now, although it occurs to me as I'm typing this that I still fly occasionally in the "dreamwork" dreams.

[awaken]

100 days Foundation: have chi

If One who know how to deal with Shen and chi

We can call him have the foundation

 

3 years lactation: stillness, chi go inside the 玄關

 

If one who know how to deal with 玄關竅

We can call him now how to lactation

 

9 years facing the wall: starting opening the emptiness

 

When one start the process of opening the emptiness

He won't have dream.

His middle Mai is open.

He start the evolution process of golden Dan

 

We can say his is in the process of 9 years facing the wall

 

 

 

 

There is still one more

 

10 months conceive

 

The first stage of 玄關

 

The first stage of light

 

When one can see the first stage of light

 

Look like tai jii

 

We can say he is in 10 months conceive

Edited January 6, 2017 by awaken

[awaken]

I've been asking elsewhere and not hearing many responses that were sympathetic to the details of this process.

 

Is this process actually growing something or could it be considered a realization that there is an energy body that always existed?

 

(I tend toward the former, but most people I've heard from indicate the latter).

Both

[Kar3n]

My dreams now are almost entirely what I consider to be "dreamwork" -- lucid dreams in which I am learning or observing, or I am helping someone, or (occasionally) I am teaching. I say "almost entirely" because I sometimes have dreams I am aware I had but can't remember. I used to have lucid flying dreams pretty often that were a lot of fun but they've stopped now, although it occurs to me as I'm typing this that I still fly occasionally in the "dreamwork" dreams.

 

Yes, dreamwork is a great way to describe it!

 

I used to have some great lucid dreams, and dreams of events that actually happened within hours of me waking up, not so much anymore.

 

Nowadays, it is more like someone is talking to me or I am talking to others, I can't hear or see them, but I know they are there and we are communicating, because I wake up with random words or phrases on the brain.

 

It's crazy, and I am happy to know I am not the only one.

[awaken]

Cool.

 

Are there an infinite number of ways of getting to it, then? Or why is there so much mention of fake dan dao?

In the 100 days foundation, there are an infinite number of ways.

 

In the last stage , 9 years facing the wall, there is only one way.

 

The chi can be used or cultivated in many ways.

 

The using of chi will attract people very easily.

 

There are many branch roads in this way.

 

People are attracted by the magic power of chi.

[awaken]

I have heard that someone spent 200,000 NT dollars to ask his teacher to start the chi for him.

 

But all my friends and my students started the chi by themselves. They didn't need to pay any money.

 

It is not easy to explain how the way of starting influence the way of the last stage. There are many branch roads. Every mistake will waste many years until you find out it.

 

Yes, we can have many ways to build Foundation.

 

There is only one way to the emptiness.

 

But some schools have the different definitions about the emptiness. So....it is not easy to use words to tell you what is the emptiness.

 

I am glad to answer your questions because I can feel you are friendly and these questions may be important to you.

Edited January 6, 2017 by awaken

[awaken]

Also, you speak about the allure of magical applications of chi. Some schools advocate exploring applications (which could be considered magical) as a way of growing into the experience of "oneness" with the universe or understanding the energy body. Other schools say that exercising such abilities is a side path, some even say that it wastes cultivated energy and detracts from the late stages of alchemy. Do you have a perspective on the matter?

 

 

-------》

 

I agree.

 

I heard it many years ago.

 

I didn't know the reason when I was a beginner.

 

Recently, I begin to know why.

 

But it is not easy to let people know.

 

Chi and Shen are the material of golden dan.

 

After mixing chi and Shen, it still need a process, 溫養, 封爐。

 

Many daoist classics talked about 溫養，they say 恍惚，渺冥，昏久則昭明, Hun dun

 

Why we need 恍惚？

 

That is the process of hiding shi-Shen 識神隱

 

There are two process of 恍惚

 

Anyway, Shen and chi need to be 溫養 for a long time.

 

But some people don't do it.

 

They keep the chi and train the chi to let the chi more and more powerful.

 

So this is the branch road.

 

You decide the direction of chi.

 

Mixing with Shen and 溫養？

 

Or train it and stronger?

 

The two different ways lead different results.

[Arkady Shadursky]

I have heard that someone spent 200,000 NT dollars to ask his teacher to start the chi for him.

 

But all my friends and my students started the chi by themselves. They didn't need to pay any money.

 

It is not easy to explain how the way of starting influence the way of the last stage. There are many branch roads. Every mistake will waste many years until you find out it.

 

Yes, we can have many ways to build Foundation.

 

There is only one way to the emptiness.

 

But some schools have the different definitions about the emptiness. So....it is not easy to use words to tell you what is the emptiness.

 

I am glad to answer your questions because I can feel you are friendly and these questions may be important to you.

Awaken, you are talking about really high level practices.

However, you keep ignoring the question about Bagua and alchemy relationship. Actually the answer for this question is obvious for every true alchemist.

 

In alchemy there is no way to skip any stage, and alchemist should pass them all gradually.

 

So if you can't answer such a simple question I afraid you probably didn't complete even a first initial stage.

 

UPD: if you don't know the answer, then it's OK. We all still have a lot to learn and there is no shame to ask if you don't know.

---

Arkady

Edited January 6, 2017 by Arkady Shadursky

[Spotless]

Cultivating in traditional Daoism is a sequential process with stages need to passed one by one.

 

One of the first stages is repleneshing yuanqi. The time required to finish this stage depends (among other factors) on student's age. Stages names, like

 

• "100 days laying the foundation"
• "3 years of breastfeeding"
• "9 years facing the wall"

all show us the required time. And what if deviations appear? What if student faces some difficulty or even danger in the cultivation process? The Teacher helps him/her. Same in Yuxianpai and WuLiupai Schools.

 

So the process of studying / teaching requires Time.

 

==========================

 

Some forum members using the fact that only few of fellow members know Chinese, post parts of text in hieroglyphs as an "evidence" to their fantasies. As other members are not able to check what is the meaning of these words it becomes possible to fool fellow members.

 

One of the examples has some relation to this topic. "Taoist Texts" claimed in one of previous threads that "Liu Huayang was studying only 3 days from Wu Chongxu", bringing this fragment

 

“我以四十余年究竟之力而悟，后圣不终三日，彻见而彻知，并解悟二经之法旨，不大便宜耶？”

（《伍柳天仙法脉》，宗教文化出版社，第 13页， 2007版）

 

as an "evidence". Probably it has fooled some fellow members. But what do we actually see in the book mentioned? See the attach - no such words on 13th page.

 

Hope it will help fellow members in distinguishing between truth and lies.

 

Best Regards,

A.A.Khokhlov

The very first sentence is patently untrue:

 

"Cultivating in traditional Daoism is a sequential process with stages need to passed one by one"

 

This is a statement of the mind - the conceptual mind - the one that loves engineering ones way to Enlightenment. It is as humorous as it is sad. Nothing could be further from the truth and this will stunt your growth, hold you back and pour you into unnecessary minutiae like nothing else.

 

It is like stating that in order to live the very best life you have to understand and control each movement of a swallow and each actual beat of the heart.

 

This is religion - the religion of the control freak in each of us - the one that loves the sleep because that is where he/she holds the reins over us.

---

 

This is candy in the candy store - "Sir, I would like to buy the big golden map behind you that comes with a book that has step by step instructions for becoming a rabbit because I want to enter a race with a turtle and have decided that as a rabbit it would be impossible to lose the race. This will provide me with the starting point and the finish line and is so perfect neat and tidy! How much is it? I would surely like to buy it."

 

If you wish to proceed far in cultivation all you need is a good foundation and live it. You have all the answers and they will all reveal themselves. The frequencies of karma that you are held in by yourself are always working you toward this and if you strive through cultivation - it is to move beyond the bonds you hold yourself with.

 

As the bonds are released cultivation brings with it an attraction to the very pages you are reading here. It brings an attraction to knowing yourself once again. Now that you are here - it is not something that you sign up for like at a gym. You arrive here and wish to grasp cultivation wherein you apply yourself to it - this is done precisely in releasing the control and grasping you have done in the forgetting of yourself.

 

Don't resist one type of religion only to join another - move toward your Self - intentional suffering is actually giving up your positions, your story, your pride and your willfulness - this is true cultivation.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Spotless

[dawei]

The very first sentence is patently untrue:

 

"Cultivating in traditional Daoism is a sequential process with stages need to passed one by one"

 

This is a statement of the mind - the conceptual mind - the one that loves engineering ones way to Enlightenment. It is as humorous as it is sad. Nothing could be further from the truth and this will stunt your growth, hold you back and pour you into unnecessary minutiae like nothing else.

 

I completely agree and suspect many others would too.

 

but to be fair to the OP... he said the below at post #25 but it should be in the opening post to clarify the point of view spoken... it seems many posts would do good to state their teaching/tradition point of view before making what appears to be blanket statements.

 

he said:

 

Lets be more precise here. I am talking about Dao of WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools. Which corresponds to teaching of many ancient Masters of Daozang. We call it Traditional Daoism. For me it seems that to practice Traditional Daoism you need to be a part of Tradition and cultivate according to it.

 

If the topic is really just about transmission within WLP and YXP... the even a title change would be helpful too...   I'll let the topic starter clarify as needed.

 

Lets be more precise here. I am talking about Dao of WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools. Which corresponds to teaching of many ancient Masters of Daozang. We call it Traditional Daoism. For me it seems that to practice Traditional Daoism you need to be a part of Tradition and cultivate according to it.

[Brian]

I completely agree and suspect many others would too.

 

but to be fair to the OP... he said the below at post #25 but it should be in the opening post to clarify the point of view spoken... it seems many posts would do good to state their teaching/tradition point of view before making what appears to be blanket statements.

 

he said:

 

 

If the topic is really just about transmission within WLP and YXP... the even a title change would be helpful too...   I'll the topic starter clarify as needed.

It almost feels like the phrase "Traditional Daoism" in this context should be in quotes or followed by a or ® symbol to indicate that it is referring specifically to "Dao of WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools."

[damdao]

I think sudden enlightenment is a xing experience. But even admiting sudden enlightenmet after that comes gradual cultivation, as zen says.

Besides there is a wide variety, levels and focuses of enlightenments, not all mutually compatible.

Neidan (in its broader sense) try to cultivate at the same time xing and ming, and in the Wuliu and Yuxian Pais the first step is about ming practice and it shoul follow the heaven pattern, the cycles, growing and waning of yin and yang, etc. 

[damdao]

It almost feels like the phrase "Traditional Daoism" in this context should be in quotes or followed by a or ® symbol to indicate that it is referring specifically to "Dao of WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools."

This paper by Russel Kirkland is worth of reading:

 

THE TAOISM OF THE WESTERN IMAGINATION

https://faculty.franklin.uga.edu/kirkland/sites/faculty.franklin.uga.edu.kirkland/files/TENN97.pdf

[Spotless]

It is unfortunate that so many have fallen into the Fox "News" habit of baiting the headline with actual completely misleading grabbers and then starting with completely false button pushers.

 

It is such a small minded ploy and sets the stage for discordant interplay. And it has become what is no longer a "ploy" but a habit.

As a complete robotic habit of baiting conversation and discourse.

 

Then later becoming an apologist for the very thing one does again and again.