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Discussing Reincarnation


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#1 noonespecial

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 08:30 PM

Discussing reincarnation with Christians I have found their view of the concept entirely skewed, it is not an easy ticket out of 'sin' quite the opposite, because the burden and responsibility of life is thrust fully upon the shoulders of the individual, likewise it is not my personality that gets another chance, my government name and memories more or less return to dust...

 

And this seems to be the most difficult bit... its hard for them to understand that it is not your personality that gets another chance, you might as well die and return to void because it is the same thing, it is a suffering of grandest sorts - in fact i would much prefer their worldview of being born, being lucky enough to be born into a Christian family, or accepting Jesus as savior and going straight to heaven, it doesn't get any easier than that in escaping the suffrage of this life.

 

I am not an ardent supporter of reincarnation either, because it really seems like a great way to keep a caste system in place...a bit more in tune with Hermetic philosophy is the following; if this is all in the imagination of the One thing, and one were to go through a past life regression, one could potentially tune into all lives ever lived out in the past (and future) then falsely believe they were exclusive to their particular 'higher self' just as silly as the rest of the options. -End rant.  :D


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#2 wilfred

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 09:23 PM

from what i understand when the mind is clear enough you can see dependant origination for yourself and track back into past lives through direct knowing of all the casual links in your energetic/karmic history. i'm inclined to believe that it's possible and past lives are a thing that are knowable.

 

things like regressions might hit some spots, but it might just be random or images generated by the subconscious, not the same process as knowing via the casual chain.


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#3 noonespecial

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:38 AM

What is a 'life' or what constitutes our definition of life beyond a matrix of memory patterns based on sensory impressions? If all is from One Thing, it follows there is only One Life, making any personality, past, present or future distinct from that Life an illusion. Likewise, what would be the point of a redemptive Christ figure, a stone or elixir if not to break away from that One Thing, it all gets very Faustian very quickly :blink:


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#4 FraterUFA

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 07:15 AM

I have conscious experience of four past life memories. The significance of them lies not in their historical accuracy but rather in what they convey about the "operating system" one is working from... and moreover, new options become available to one when they are consciously integrated.

 

That said, one of these was later proven to be historically accurate and utterly outside the bounds of any prior book learning. As for the rest, I have no idea. My memories include nobody of note: a Sumerian priest, a broken-hearted drunk, a peasant killed for his wife's crime (stealing food), and a soldier... Roman, I believe, and a damn mean one at that. 

 

In the final analysis, it doesn't really matter if these are one's own memories or another's... I'm not sure if it that is anything but a semantic difference anyway. What matters is that I identify with all of these individuals (or stories) and that they have shed a great deal of light on the shadows of my present life.

 

UFA


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#5 centertime

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 10:34 AM

I have conscious experience of four past life memories. The significance of them lies not in their historical accuracy but rather in what they convey about the "operating system" one is working from... and moreover, new options become available to one when they are consciously integrated.

 

That said, one of these was later proven to be historically accurate and utterly outside the bounds of any prior book learning. As for the rest, I have no idea. My memories include nobody of note: a Sumerian priest, a broken-hearted drunk, a peasant killed for his wife's crime (stealing food), and a soldier... Roman, I believe, and a damn mean one at that. 

 

In the final analysis, it doesn't really matter if these are one's own memories or another's... I'm not sure if it that is anything but a semantic difference anyway. What matters is that I identify with all of these individuals (or stories) and that they have shed a great deal of light on the shadows of my present life.

 

UFA

Hi,

Let me ask something.  How did you make them conscious?  Did you notice any inheritance of your personality from one life to another?  I guess they influence your life now.. Do they influence each other? E.g. was broken drunk influence by Sumerian priest?  Do you remember the between life area by any chance?

And what do you mean they integrated?  What difference does that make?


Edited by centertime, 05 December 2015 - 07:16 AM.


#6 thelerner

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 05:45 AM

Good questions above.  It'd be interesting to see a comparison of different reincarnation 'systems'.   How many include other levels of afterlife in there grand picture?  Whether sorting out is done by deity or cosmic weighing scale. 


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#7 Nungali

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 12:18 PM

Ahhh the cosmic weighing scales !

 

 

meskhenet-weighing%20of%20the%20heart.jp

 

 

... watch out for that crocolepapotamus on the right ! 


The serpent which came forth from the earth has risen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen.


#8 noonespecial

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 04:58 PM

Ahhh the cosmic weighing scales !

 

 

meskhenet-weighing%20of%20the%20heart.jp

 

 

... watch out for that crocolepapotamus on the right ! 

 

One wants to weigh your deeds, one wants to weigh your heart.  :D


"Notes to self - 'do not mistake seriousness for sincerity, complexity for truth, variety for freedom"


#9 noonespecial

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 05:02 PM

from what i understand when the mind is clear enough you can see dependant origination for yourself and track back into past lives through direct knowing of all the casual links in your energetic/karmic history. i'm inclined to believe that it's possible and past lives are a thing that are knowable.

 

things like regressions might hit some spots, but it might just be random or images generated by the subconscious, not the same process as knowing via the casual chain.

 

My life is all lives. Yours too.  


"Notes to self - 'do not mistake seriousness for sincerity, complexity for truth, variety for freedom"


#10 Apeiron&Peiron

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 06:46 PM

When discussing reincarnation, why is it that a lot of arguments for or against it do not detail the mechanics of it but, instead, the cultural components that emerged in places that held to one belief or the other? My main reason for stating this is that not all Christians hold the same salvific views; only a few hold to the belief that you're saved just by being in the religion.


"The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order"
 
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#11 niki

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 09:13 PM

I believe every living thing is reincarnated... or recycled energy. The higher level of consciousness we reach on Earth plane the higher level of spiritual energy we are when we die. Once we reach the highest level or highest vibration or frequency on Earth plane we eventually cease incarnation and become part of the Dao or Logos or God or whatever it is you believe. Heaven or Nirvana is a state of consciousness we reach while on Earth plane. It's the last level of consciousness we can reach on earth. As for Christian's... I wouldn't try having this discussion with most of them. There's a few open minded ones out there who will listen and not become offended, but I don't like trying to convince anyone of anything. They will come to it on their own if they're fortunate enough.
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#12 Apeiron&Peiron

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 04:28 PM

hmm.....


Edited by Apeiron&Peiron, 06 April 2016 - 05:12 PM.

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#13 FraterUFA

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:21 PM

It is not that difficult or complex. There is another world which is the counterpart to this one, what some western cultures symbolized by "night". We visit there when we sleep and we live there when we die. We eventually manifest here again to repeat the cycle.

 

I believe that our personalities don't really survive this transition intact, though some of the deeper, more permanent traits we have acquired certainly do.

 

The alchemist finds a way to consciously experience both worlds and by doing so, his personal evolution is greatly accelerated.

 

By day and night, form returns to light.

 

UFA


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#14 Desmonddf

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 10:31 PM

Through regression i have been able to see a little bit of 2 or 3 of my past lives.

 

Here are my impressions on the subject:

 

I know it was me. I recognize my own "existence" there. However, i do not see that person as the "me" i am today. I had different values. I behaved totally differently. If you put those two man in the same room as me you would say there are three completely different people there.


Even though i could feel... well... my "essence" ? My "sparkle" ? My.... something... there. Not my values, my morals, my sense of who i am... just a "something" which goes from life to life and can serve as a bridge between all of them.

 

Now, some say that isn't "you". That "you" is the Ego, the morals and values, the religion and whatnot you have built for yourself in your life.

 

I don't think this way. I say this "thing" is "me", and the rest is just the many personalities i had in times past, due to how i was raised and lived on different times. Just how i will have a new personality in five years, or ten years from. Just how i will live things in the future which will change me to a point were i'm not the same person i'm today anymore.

 

And it doesn't has much to do with sin. It's just that the person "there" is related to me on the same degree the person i was when i was 5 years old is related to me today.

 

Which means, the same way the things i did when i was 5 affect my present life by means of my unconscious mind, so do those things from those times. Plain psychology, that's one of the facets of karma in my view.

 

The hermetic, buddistic and taoist visions on the theme - which bring the idea of the returning spirit without mind or souls, is, on my opinion, a way of focusing on the change instead of focusing on the connections between one life and the other. 

 

For me, the connection is what i am. The change is just on things i had.

 

And that is why i'm not more affraid of reincarnation than i am of just keep living. It's mainly the same thing in my view.

 

That and a little bit of other stuff related to channeling and spirits which didn't scatte after death, but, well, that's a point to be discussed latter :P


Edited by Desmonddf, 21 May 2016 - 10:33 PM.

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#15 WisteriaWinds

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 03:46 AM

ALL religions sell perfectionism.

Discussing reincarnation with Christians I have found their view of the concept entirely skewed, it is not an easy ticket out of 'sin' quite the opposite, because the burden and responsibility of life is thrust fully upon the shoulders of the individual, likewise it is not my personality that gets another chance, my government name and memories more or less return to dust...

And this seems to be the most difficult bit... its hard for them to understand that it is not your personality that gets another chance, you might as well die and return to void because it is the same thing, it is a suffering of grandest sorts - in fact i would much prefer their worldview of being born, being lucky enough to be born into a Christian family, or accepting Jesus as savior and going straight to heaven, it doesn't get any easier than that in escaping the suffrage of this life.

I am not an ardent supporter of reincarnation either, because it really seems like a great way to keep a caste system in place...a bit more in tune with Hermetic philosophy is the following; if this is all in the imagination of the One thing, and one were to go through a past life regression, one could potentially tune into all lives ever lived out in the past (and future) then falsely believe they were exclusive to their particular 'higher self' just as silly as the rest of the options. -End rant. :D



#16 Michael Sternbach

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 07:14 AM

Through regression i have been able to see a little bit of 2 or 3 of my past lives.

 

Here are my impressions on the subject:

 

I know it was me. I recognize my own "existence" there. However, i do not see that person as the "me" i am today. I had different values. I behaved totally differently. If you put those two man in the same room as me you would say there are three completely different people there.


Even though i could feel... well... my "essence" ? My "sparkle" ? My.... something... there. Not my values, my morals, my sense of who i am... just a "something" which goes from life to life and can serve as a bridge between all of them.

 

Now, some say that isn't "you". That "you" is the Ego, the morals and values, the religion and whatnot you have built for yourself in your life.

 

I don't think this way. I say this "thing" is "me", and the rest is just the many personalities i had in times past, due to how i was raised and lived on different times. Just how i will have a new personality in five years, or ten years from. Just how i will live things in the future which will change me to a point were i'm not the same person i'm today anymore.

 

And it doesn't has much to do with sin. It's just that the person "there" is related to me on the same degree the person i was when i was 5 years old is related to me today.

 

Which means, the same way the things i did when i was 5 affect my present life by means of my unconscious mind, so do those things from those times. Plain psychology, that's one of the facets of karma in my view.

 

The hermetic, buddistic and taoist visions on the theme - which bring the idea of the returning spirit without mind or souls, is, on my opinion, a way of focusing on the change instead of focusing on the connections between one life and the other. 

 

For me, the connection is what i am. The change is just on things i had.

 

And that is why i'm not more affraid of reincarnation than i am of just keep living. It's mainly the same thing in my view.

 

That and a little bit of other stuff related to channeling and spirits which didn't scatte after death, but, well, that's a point to be discussed latter :P

 

This is in great accordance with the picture that I pieced together, based on personal insights, astrological research, Hermetic writings, and quantum physics. Not that it would answer all my questions, but this is, in outline, what I concluded so far:

 

After physical death, the subtle body ascends through what was called the "planetary spheres" in the Hermetic/neo-Platonic cosmology of the ancients - we might speak of subtle planes or other-dimensional levels of reality today. During its "ascent", the subtle body gradually sheds its various layers, which correspond with the individual's intellect, emotions etc. For each of these layers is made of a different kind of subtle matter, and each is eventually left on its corresponding sphere or plane: The intellectual faculties on the plane of Mercury, the emotions on the planes of Venus and Mars etc.

 

What remains is the soul essence or monad, which is the individual's innermost identity beyond thinking and feeling. It will naturally gravitate toward realms beyond the Solar System, ultimately joining the Infinity of space and time. The Judeo-Christian tradition reflects this by stating that the soul returns to God.

 

Yet that spark of the Divine in most cases once again descends through the various planes, gradually dressing itself with new subtle body and, eventually, with a physical body. They will reflect the earlier experiences of this entity. Its make up is represented by its natal chart. There are indeed no two exactly identical individuals regarding their thinking, feeling, and physicality, as there are no two exactly identical natal charts. However, there will be considerable parallels between its earlier and the later "versions". Often, there will also be differences due to evolutionary integrations that have occurred during the previous incarnation.


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