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#1 sketchbo0k

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:44 PM

I recently started practicing Baguazhang. My Sifu is no joke, he's the real deal he demonstrated Baguazhang on 5 of his best students and none could even touch him, but there is a language barrier so it is very hard for him to explain everything in detail.

 

He started me off with circle walking, which I found a but weird because I always read about straight line walking as a starting point, but I've seen it happen. I read a few threads on this section and pretty much he pointed out most of what has been said in Trunk's topics. 

 

My only concern is the prerequisites.

 

What do people suggest I do as prerequisites to circle walking? I'm usually there an hour before to do Zhan Zhuang and San Ti. What else should I work on? Should I do straight line walking an hour before?

 


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#2 soaring crane

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:00 AM

I think this is something only your teacher can realistically answer for you, no?
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#3 sketchbo0k

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 05:27 AM

As I said, huge language barrier, even if I explain it to him it might not go through. So I just want some info on what other work some people here are doing/have done.


Edited by sketchbo0k, 11 November 2015 - 05:28 AM.


#4 Taoist Texts

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:16 AM

My only concern is the prerequisites.

 

What do people suggest I do as prerequisites to circle walking? I'm usually there an hour before to do Zhan Zhuang and San Ti. What else should I work on? Should I do straight line walking an hour before?

Its a very good question.

 

The first prereq would be to figure out what is the point of walking? Or ZZ and ST?

 

Second would be to know that internal MA are direct opposite of the external.

 

And third would be to do stretches (very carefully). Strength in IMA is based on stretching.


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#5 Michael Sternbach

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 07:55 AM

Its a very good question.

 

The first prereq would be to figure out what is the point of walking? Or ZZ and ST?

 

Second would be to know that internal MA are direct opposite of the external.

 

Not necessarily. So called "internal" and "external" martial arts have a lot in common. I know because I am a practitioner of both. The further I progress, the more I feel the distinction to be an artificial and unnecessary one. But it depends on one's school or individual practice.

 

And third would be to do stretches (very carefully). Strength in IMA is based on stretching.

 

Stretches are useful, but to say that strength in IMA is based on it is an exaggeration, imo. It is based on many things at once. Key elements are muscle relaxation and smooth connectivity between muscle groups, and stretching can go a long way to enhance those factors.

 

As a preparation for a training session, some warm up and stretching is very recommendable, to be sure.


Edited by Michael Sternbach, 11 November 2015 - 07:57 AM.

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#6 soaring crane

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 08:16 AM

As I said, huge language barrier, even if I explain it to him it might not go through. So I just want some info on what other work some people here are doing/have done.

 

But then I have to question the value of any instruction you may be getting from him. I don't quite understand your situation.

 

Basically, the place to start is correct straight-line walking. Maybe look into Tom Bisio's books on the subject?


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#7 idquest

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 09:56 AM

If your muscles are frozen in legs, hips, and waist, the prerequisite will be to first unfreeze the muscles before even attempting circle walking. Because you can seriously damage your body otherwise.

 

IME, the problem with the best teachers is that they usually start their own training early in life, as children or teenagers. This results in their not understanding whatsoever what problems 'normal' western students will have because of inflexibility. THis could be the reason why your teacher started your training  with the circle walking.

 

What are unfrozen muscles? If during a turn you feel like your tissue in legs, hips, back, and waist sort of 'rolls over' the bones, you should be fine. Otherwise - think hard.


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#8 sketchbo0k

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:52 PM

But then I have to question the value of any instruction you may be getting from him. I don't quite understand your situation.
 
Basically, the place to start is correct straight-line walking. Maybe look into Tom Bisio's books on the subject?

 
Most of my theory are from B.K Frantzis and books (Yang Jwing-Ming, etc.) and the practical things my Sifu is teaching me. He corrects my posture, placements and generally all my errors but he doesn't tell me 'Why'. That's why I'm getting my theory from somewhere where there isn't a language barrier. So when he shows me something I'll be like "Ahhhhh I know why"
 

Thanks everybody for your efforts and answers. 


Edited by sketchbo0k, 11 November 2015 - 06:53 PM.


#9 Taoist Texts

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:58 PM

 But it depends on one's school or individual practice.

hehe;) genau.

 

 

Stretches are useful, but to say that strength in IMA is based on it is an exaggeration

劲由于筋

 

Power (chin 勁) comes from the tendons


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#10 GreytoWhite

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:50 PM

 
Most of my theory are from B.K Frantzis and books (Yang Jwing-Ming, etc.) and the practical things my Sifu is teaching me. He corrects my posture, placements and generally all my errors but he doesn't tell me 'Why'. That's why I'm getting my theory from somewhere where there isn't a language barrier. So when he shows me something I'll be like "Ahhhhh I know why"
 

Thanks everybody for your efforts and answers. 

 

Don't get the theory and the practice overly conflated. For now keep practicing and let your teacher guide your progress. The words aren't as important as the feeling. B.K. Frantzis' bagua system is Cheng based his system is completely different than the Cheng descended xingyibagua I am currently learning from one of Kenny Gong's students. Some aspects are focused on more than others dependent on lineage and experience of your teacher.


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#11 Wu Ming Jen

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:06 PM

I wouldn't worry about the language barrier most of my training is wordless being a physical thing being taught and all. If your Sifu needs to give you words besides using the international language he will find the way to do so.

 

I think it is great you found an awesome teacher and want to do well.Knowing is doing and doing is knowing keep up the Gung Fu!!!!


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#12 Michael Sternbach

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:30 PM

It is typical for Asian teachers to teach silently even where there are no language barriers, simply by showing things which the students imitate to the best of their ability.

 

The Western mind always seeks background information to set things in perspective, so the traditional Eastern way can be frustrating for it at times.

 

Neither way is good or bad per say, they are just different ways of learning.

 

I think it's a good idea for you to supplement your practice with books written by masters, the way you do. I see no problem in this, as long as you don't let variations due to different styles confuse you.


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#13 steve

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 02:37 PM

I recently started practicing Baguazhang. My Sifu is no joke, he's the real deal he demonstrated Baguazhang on 5 of his best students and none could even touch him, but there is a language barrier so it is very hard for him to explain everything in detail.

 

He started me off with circle walking, which I found a but weird because I always read about straight line walking as a starting point, but I've seen it happen. I read a few threads on this section and pretty much he pointed out most of what has been said in Trunk's topics. 

 

My only concern is the prerequisites.

 

What do people suggest I do as prerequisites to circle walking? I'm usually there an hour before to do Zhan Zhuang and San Ti. What else should I work on? Should I do straight line walking an hour before?

 

If your teacher is the real deal why ask some anonymous keyboard jockeys?

Seriously, have some trust and confidence that your teacher is doing his best to teach you the best way as he understands it.

Don't second guess him!

Rather than spend an extra hour standing or walking in a straight line before you walk circles, spend the extra hour walking the circle.

Just my $.02 - it's a rare blessing to find an excellent teacher - follow what he teaches!

Good luck.


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#14 sketchbo0k

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 06:53 PM

 
 
The Western mind always seeks background information to set things in perspective, so the traditional Eastern way can be frustrating for it at times.

 

Except I'm not western at all :P today he taught me the single palm change. At first it was a bit hard to follow but then he explained why to do it and showed the practical use of it and it suddenly became easier. 


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#15 soaring crane

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 10:33 PM

Except I'm not western at all :P today he taught me the single palm change. At first it was a bit hard to follow but then he explained why to do it and showed the practical use of it and it suddenly became easier. 

 

That sounds good!


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#16 Michael Sternbach

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 11:32 PM

Except I'm not western at all :P today he taught me the single palm change. At first it was a bit hard to follow but then he explained why to do it and showed the practical use of it and it suddenly became easier. 


I didn't say that you are Western, I only highlighted differences between teaching methods that seem to pertain to your topic. :P
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