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#33 Bodhicitta

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 03:15 PM

For an unsensational, even boring look at present-day theosophists, here are videos of the Adyar TS convention going on for a few more days of January 2016:

 

https://www.youtube....IjNqk39aC1A6hjA

 

 

Here is the program:

 

http://www.ts-adyar....gramme 2015.pdf


Edited by Bodhicitta, 02 January 2016 - 03:16 PM.

Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#34 Jadespear

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 10:17 PM

Theosophy was all well and good until they fell into the swoop that all philosophical sects and religions do.  They tried to spread " the truth".   No one cares Blavatsky.  Because even though all this esoteric philosophy is so fun to think about and to know, it has no practical significance of being able to be used in our lives.  

 

"Truth is a pathless land." - Krishnamurti.  

 

The only purpose of any knowledge is to be used for the betterment of mankind.  Theosophy fell to it's own ego...

 

" spiritual " knowledge that is talked about here on this website, is the way the universe behaves... even the knowledge of all knowledge is dead unless it is used for something, something good that creates, organizes, or restores harmony to life.  And there does not need to be anyone espousing it to the masses.



#35 Nungali

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:25 PM

" esoteric philosophy is so fun to think about and to know, it has no practical significance of being able to be used in our lives.  "

 

:blink:

 

 

Maybe that 'our' should have been a  ' my '  ? 

 

I apply mine daily ... all the time.  It has reaped great benefits , both , internally and externally . 

 

If no one had 'espoused'  it  ,  it would not exist .     Maybe your lack of results / significance to your life is because you did not espouse it ? 

 

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/espoused


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#36 Bodhicitta

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:29 AM

This Voice of Theosophy site with many theosophical texts was down for a time, now it is back up.  

 

And just as quickly went down.


Edited by Bodhicitta, 29 January 2016 - 10:41 AM.

Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#37 Bodhicitta

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 06:50 AM

The power to know does not come from book-study nor from mere philosophy, but mostly from the actual practice of altruism in deed, word, and thought; for that practice purifies the covers of the soul and permits that light to shine down into the brain-mind. As the brain-mind is the receiver in the waking state, it has to be purified from sense-perception, and the truest way to do this is by combining philosophy with the highest outward and inward virtue.

HP Blavatsky in her Collected Writings, vol. 9:400G


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Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#38 Nungali

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 02:47 PM

Actual practice ?  

 

Seems something Blavatski was short of issuing advice about .    And that led to many members leaving and seeking it elsewhere.  They tried to remedy it later ... but it  didnt take off and collapsed. 

 

I think they tried to fill the void there later by introducing the Liberal Catholic Church and 'Co-masonry'  as a means of offering some type of practical work, ceremony and ritual .  I have a friend who is a 3rd generation Theosophist, she was taken to Liberal Catholic Church every week . 

 

They were pretty big here at one time . They had a 'commune manor ' ; 

 

" ... over thirty rooms, most of which were lined with beaten copper. It became known locally as Bakewell's Folly.[2] In 1922, the Theosophical Society rented The Manor for a community of some fifty people, headed by Charles Leadbeater, a claimed clairvoyant, and a major figure in the Society. The Manor became an important centre for the Society and was regarded as a great "occult forcing-house".[3]

The English writer Mary Lutyens stayed at The Manor in the 1920s and described it as "a huge and hideous villa".[4] The young Indian Jiddu Krishnamurti, who was presented as the new "World Teacher", stayed in nearby David Street with his brother Nitya while Lutyens—his eventual biographer—stayed at The Manor.[5]

The Theosophical Society bought the house in 1925, holding it under a trust deed. In 1926 they started the radio station 2GB; the initials stood for Giordano Bruno, a saint. The station operated from The Manor for a few years.[6] In 1951, they set up The Manor Foundation Ltd to own and run the house. The Society still uses The Manor as of 2013."

 

https://en.wikipedia...e_Manor,_Mosman

 

 

Star Amphitheatre , built for the reception of the 'New World Teacher'   - he would sail through Sydney heads ( in background) and take his place on the podium.  Unfortunately some newspaper put it out that he would walk over the water to the podium. Many turned out to watch ' the miracle' ... but were disappointed . 

 

Stancl14.jpg

 

https://en.wikipedia...ar_Amphitheatre

 

Built by 'The Order of the Star '   ... now Theosophists were not only looking for practical magic to practice, a system of initiation, a religious expression (all previously lacking ... and the drop in numbers reflecting the need) .. now they claiming  a specific religious and overall revelation !   The coming of the 'new world teacher' ! 

 

Fortunately , the 'new world teacher'  himself  donged that one with  hammer !  ;

 

" Krishnamurti dissolved the Order during the annual Star Camp at Ommen, the Netherlands, on 3 August 1929.[63] He stated that he had made his decision after "careful consideration" during the previous two years, and that:

I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along a particular path. ... This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. "

https://en.wikipedia...k_with_the_past

 

 

giphy.gif


Edited by Nungali, 31 January 2016 - 02:55 PM.

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#39 Bodhicitta

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 03:27 PM

HPB suggested all sorts of practical altruism, but altruism requires one to care more for others (or at least as much) than self.  So it is not popular with we self-cherishing folk.  So all sorts of flapdoodle were devised to entertain us and give the illusion of 'spirituality'.


Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#40 Nungali

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 03:38 PM

No ...  what I mean is she did mention stuff  ( like  ;   be altruistic)  ... but Theosophists themselves wanted to know the practical applications of much of their teachings ... that were missing . 

 

This has nothing to do with trying to pass off 'methods of practical application' and exercises and practice as some type of selfish flapdoodle  that is entertainment  and 'illusory spirituality' . 

 

That comment sounds like a defensive position  for a system that had a lot lacking .    The western traditions, Buddhism  and Vedanta  (all sources for the 'Theosophical blend' ) offer such practicalities, ritual and meditations .... to dismiss them with a wave of the Theosophical hand doesnt really cut it . 


The serpent which came forth from the earth has risen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen.


#41 Bodhicitta

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 03:54 PM

Blavatsky was not founding a religion at all.  She encouraged theosophists to stay with the spiritual paths they knew and just bring to bear whatever leavening influence they gained from the teachings of herself and her gurus.  

 

Therefore, all the meditations, rituals etc. were already there, just use them for the benefit of all beings in a non-sectarian, theosophical manner.


Edited by Bodhicitta, 31 January 2016 - 04:17 PM.

Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#42 Nungali

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 05:57 PM

Blavatsky was not founding a religion at all.  She encouraged theosophists to stay with the spiritual paths they knew and just bring to bear whatever leavening influence they gained from the teachings of herself and her gurus.  

 

Therefore, all the meditations, rituals etc. were already there, just use them for the benefit of all beings in a non-sectarian, theosophical manner.

 

so then they are not  " all sorts of flapdoodle were devised to entertain us and give the illusion of 'spirituality'.  "   ?  

 

Or do you mean the one's established before Theosophy  were OK but not after it ?    

 

I would contend that theosophical men and  women wanted access to a system of  initiation and liturgy  ....  and that the G C C  and the Co-masons were exactly what you recommend ;   ...   using them ( ritual and meditations ) in a theosophical manner . 

 

That is the only valid definition of 'in a theosophical manner' that I can come up with .  otherwise I have no idea what 'in a theosophical manner ' means ?     

 

You do realise the other systems also have a code of ethics, responsibility and  consideration for others .... including 'practical altruism'  ?  

 

But you consider it is ' flapdoodle  that is entertainment  and 'illusory spirituality' .  "  ?   


The serpent which came forth from the earth has risen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen.


#43 Bodhicitta

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 07:18 PM

Guess I will have to 'sigh' write some more.  

 

'Stay with' means if you are a Xtian or Buddhist or Jew etc. you make use of whatever that path provides in the way of practices & service.  The main factor theosophy contributes is the theosophical = non-sectartian, universal brotherhood attitude.

 

But many people wanted something special and different, so they would drop their native religion and try to make theosophy into a new one.  That would require some new flapdoodle unique to their wrong-headed notion of Theosophy.

 

Kapish?


Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#44 Nungali

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 07:45 PM

  " Wrong headed notion  "  ...    ? !   :blink:

 

 

 

W"ell then  < sigh >  ....   I guess I will go back to what I originally was going to detail , the movement started to implement this at the beginning  of the establishment of the TS when this problem arose .    It was supposedly shut down but still exists. 

 

I guess I will have to ask you why you 'Theosophically deny' such a movement in Theosophy, yet the Theosophical movement itself seems to support it .  

 

In other words  I am asking you about  the ES of the TS .    Is not this exactly what I was describing ?   Is the ES flapdoodle ? 

 

 

 

 

" In the early 1880s, two disgruntled employees at the international headquarters of the TS in India accused HPB of faking the phenomena and forging the com­munications coming from the Masters. Richard Hodg­son, a young and inexperienced member of the newly formed Society for Psychical Research (SPR) in Britain, went to India to investigate the charges. In a report published in 1885, he pronounced her a fraud. This, of course, became worldwide news, making Hodgson and the SPR famous.

 

As was shown in later studies, Hodgson systemati­cally disregarded the evidence in favor of HPB. In 1986, over a hundred years later, Vernon Harrison, a long­standing member of the SPR and an expert on forgery, published a study of the Hodgson report in the SPR Journal. Harrison concluded that HPB was unjustly condemned. (For an online version of Harrison's study,

 

visit www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-spr/hpbspr-h.htm.)

 

Nevertheless, when it first appeared, the Hodgson report was almost a deathblow to the TS, and even HPB feared that this would destroy it.

 

In an attempt to save the Society, Olcott proposed to redi­rect its activity and publications, dropping all mention of phenomena, the occult, and the Masters, to work on the less controversial field of comparative religion, phi­losophy, and science.

 

One of the Masters, Koot Hoomi, said that although this move was well-calculated to save the physical integrity of the Society, it would kill its soul.

 

The Society has liberated itself from our grasp and influ­ence and we have let it go—we make no unwilling slaves. He [Olcott] says he has saved it? He saved its body, but he allowed through sheer fear, to its soul to escape, and it is now a soulless corpse, a machine run so far well enough, but which will fall to pieces when he is gone. Out of the three objects the second alone is attended to, but it is no longer either a brotherhood, nor a body over the face of which broods the Spirit from beyond the Great Range. (Jinarajadasa, 125-26)

 

" By denying its "occult" dimension the TS had become an exoteric organization with lofty aims, but empty of its occult life, and the influence of the Masters was seriously restricted. But even if the TS could suc­cessfully limit itself to the exoteric field, it would still be doomed to fail. Why? Probably because the foundation stones of the TS were not laid with the exoteric work in view. No organization that deals with subjects such as the Lemurian and Atlantean civilizations, psychic phenomena, unseen Masters and their disciples, and occult initiations is fit to be a "respectable" member of the academic world.

 

 

Mme. Blavatsky, aware of this situation, was seeking a way of retaining the link between the TS and its occult source of inspiration. The formation of the ES afforded this opportunity, as the existence of the Masters was naturally and openly accepted by those members eager to lead a spiritual life based on Theosophical teachings. "

 

 

more at ;     https://www.theosoph...agazine?id=2951


Edited by Nungali, 31 January 2016 - 07:50 PM.

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#45 Bodhicitta

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 12:27 PM

Nungali,

 

Interesting theory you have.

According to HPB's own explanation the founding of the ES (see CW 12) had to do with the TS being a failure in its main purpose to form a nucleus of Universal Brotherhood.  The ES group was supposed to be full of brotherliness and no bickering, based on their altruistic vows to each ones Higher Self, not HPB, nor any Master.  This attitude was supposed to permeate the TS and thus slowly redeem it.  Worship of the Masters was not part of the ES, but dedication to working for Universal Brotherhood.

 

Of course she was dead a little more than three years later and the TS never regained even a formal unity, but split into several branches.


Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#46 Nungali

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:07 PM

Nungali,

 

Interesting theory you have.

 

Theory ?    The above is a quote, not mine, The bit that is mine is mostly a bunch of questions you didnt answer. 


The serpent which came forth from the earth has risen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen.


#47 Bodhicitta

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:30 PM

Not able to follow your non sequitur-like posts, sorry.


Buddhas proclaim the Dharma with one sound, each living being understands according to it kind.

Vimalakirti Sutra


#48 Nungali

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:55 PM

Oh !   Its me is it  ?  

 

Okay ,   I will retire then and take my  question marks and quotation marks with me  .... since I am so quantumly-disjointed ,  time travelling, all over the place .  

 

 

eiKvrbj.gif


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