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Zhan zhuang breathing


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#1 Manaus

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 06:40 AM

Hello,

Lam Kam Chuen, in his book The Way of Energy, chapter 2 Breathing and Relaxing, writes

 

Quietly and slowly breathe out through your nose. As you exhale, draw your belly in so that you feel you are squeezing the air out of your torso from the bottom up. Breathe out smoothly and soundlessly, until you feel you have emptied your lungs.

 

Emptying the lungs needs quite a lot of energy. How much do you squeeze?

 



#2 GreytoWhite

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 08:47 AM

Don't force the squeezing feeling, don't try to force the emptiness of your lungs. Rather the smooth and soundless part will bring you more gain if you work at this slowly.


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#3 Manaus

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:06 AM

Thanks GreytoWhite,

my question, is it not a 'do', rather than a 'be'?

I mean, practice should lead to a effortless flow. if I work on my breathing, no matter how subtly, it is still a job-for-a-result.



#4 Miffymog

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:31 PM

In time the breath will be silent, smooth and gentle. Lam Kam does not put too much emphasis on what to do with the breath in that book as, in time, it will settle down by itself. From the questions you ask, I'd suggest worrying about it a little less. But, what should you focus your mind on? You want to get better and have good technique, and improving the breath is part of this, so what should you do? There are various suggestions, try to relax, imagine the balloons you are resting on, put your awareness on the LDT. Ultimately, just persevere with the practice and your breath will sort it self out, when it does, you'll know. 


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#5 joeblast

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 07:49 AM

In time the breath will be silent, smooth and gentle. Lam Kam does not put too much emphasis on what to do with the breath in that book as, in time, it will settle down by itself. From the questions you ask, I'd suggest worrying about it a little less. But, what should you focus your mind on? You want to get better and have good technique, and improving the breath is part of this, so what should you do? There are various suggestions, try to relax, imagine the balloons you are resting on, put your awareness on the LDT. Ultimately, just persevere with the practice and your breath will sort it self out, when it does, you'll know. 

the breath should be focused on, and refined.

 

not doing that....

 

 

 otherwise one is simply not taking the process anywhere near as deeply as one could be.

 

beginning a reverse breath description with the front of the abdomen is ass backwards.

 

more important is what the perineum is doing - get that dynamic with the diaphragm down first before worrying about the piece of it that is the least important of the 3.  if the internal movements are not correct, then simply put it will not be as effective.  get the timing of the internal motions down correctly and then worry about adding in the front of the abdomen.   using the lungs, chest, throat, sinuses, or nose to breathe only takes emphasis off the diaphragm and makes the practice less effective.  air still uses the same nose-route to travel - you're just not locally changing the air pressure across the olfactory nerves and then having to deal with the resultant extra neural cascades. 

 

quiet breath = quiet mind.  the brain has many logical loopings about the midbrain area, and sensate input causes neural resonances into higher brain areas.  the biggest one you have control over is the breath and its the first one to tackle.

 

it seems like people just dont want to say "do it the rote way," because it seems longer, and people dont want to go the rote route.  but it is more thorough.   this is "doing something" and has the mind focused on something, instead of just standing there and waiting for the thought-stream-energy to perk up because the awareness is not focused on something.  drop the flow of air beneath the threshold of turbulence in the air passages, and keep working towards that while maintaining the stance-posture, repeat ad infinitum until you've trained your tendons properly to the extent that the breath pattern has been emblazoned onto the medulla.  (this happens.)

 

this especially applies in 90 degree horse stance, it is every bit the breathing exercise as it is a stance exercise.  breathing properly in horse stance  is what will allow you to hold it exponentially longer than one otherwise would.


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#6 Jox

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:17 PM

Hello joblast ...  

Your posts ... very good and informative as always ... tnx for posting ...

 

Best, Jox ...  :)   


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#7 Sudhamma

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 08:37 PM

This is missing in the various contributions, that is, the Chinese phrase, han siong ba bei, meaning, stretch the back forward, hunching the back, empty the lungs, thus curving the chest inwards. What the quoted text of author master Lam is instructing is the beginning movement of the micro-cosmic-orbit with reverse abdominal breathing. Just the beginning stage of mco. Quite correct is the breathing is only through the nose, and done silently like what is commonly said, 'like that of a rabbit'. Trust this helps.



#8 Papayapple

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:52 PM

Never thought of it that way, my gosh Joeblast you're the Bum!


Always keen on having a skype conversation in English with you about absolutely everything.


#9 YiYinYiYang

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 11:40 PM

A cool story:

 

Guo Guizhi (born 1933) was sent by his work unit to Beidaihe's hospital in 1957 because of health issue, he was vomiting blood due to a nasty stomach ulcer who was about to kill him then.

At the hospital he met Yu Yongnian who was working there and decided to begin Zhanzhuang under his supervision.

During the first lesson Yu Yongnian told him: "A disease is like a bitterness inside the body, to take it out your training has to be more bitter than the disease."

 

It's only after 14 years under his guidance that i could hear detailed explainations about breathing from him.

 

Personnally i see this as a difference between traditional ways of teaching and modern ones in which most of the time too many ideas are mixed up together, making the practice and the thinking complex where in fact they shoud be kept simple. 

 

 

Here's a video of him teaching in France in 2012.

 

https://youtu.be/YtbMRIvZiBo

 

Not looking bad for a 84 years old man isn't it? ^_^


Edited by YiYinYiYang, 11 January 2017 - 11:46 PM.

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