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What are your favorite books on practical Alchemy?


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#17 Asmo

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 07:29 AM

I am happy to see that my thread finally got some momentum. :)

 

I collected and read many books on Alchemy written from different perspectives, including secondary as well as primary literature. However, it is very difficult to arrive at a coherent picture, especially as far as the practical art is concerned, safe for some introductory works into 'Vegetable Alchemy'. Of course, Alchemy has always been notorious for its obscurity and lack of a terminology and symbolism common to most practitioners. Some scholarly efforts have been made by contemporary academics like Lawrence M. Principe and William R. Newman to figure out what the Alchemists of yore were actually doing in their laboratories. While some of their conclusions are illuminating, they still provide only a rather fragmented view, at best. Even how and with what material to start the Great Work is far from unambiguous.

 

However, as far as I figured out so far, there are two major methods employed by a substantial number of advanced practitioners:

 

The Wet Path

 

This starts with manufacturing a somewhat elusive Spirit of Wine and a preparation of lead acetate. The principal text is Johann Seger Weidenfeld's "The Secret of the Adepts". In modern times, it was attempted by Alexander von Bernus.

 

The Dry Path

 

This starts with manufacturing a star regulus of metallic Antimony. It is also called the Flamel way and was followed by such famous Alchemists as Eirenaeus Philalethes and Sir Isaac Newton.

 

The details of the practice of either path still elude me, however. If you have anything to share on them, I invite your comments. Alternatively, feel free to PM me.

 

Thanks.

 

Michael

 

Hi!

 

Sooo, you've read many books but couldn't grasp it.

You also read books, written by guys who themselve where no Alchemists. Sorta like "Alchemy for Dummies by Dummies" ?

 

"However, as far as I figured out so far, there are two major methods employed by a substantial number of advanced practitioners:"

 

You are neither! It looks like you're looking for a recipe on how to make the stone in simple terms.

Doesn't work that way, you have to do practical fundamental training and not advanced (metallic) work.

 

If you take the available literature you can categorize them roughly:

 

Philosophical and Theoretic - Full of Allegories and Symbols, if you are an Adept everything will be clear, as a beginner reading them is like sowing seeds. Do it long and often and maybe something will grow. If you think you understood something you need to test it, only Knowledge + Experience will show you the way.

 

Old Practical Books: These are often simple recipebooks, but if you don't know ho to cook how would you prepare a meal ? and what makes you think you can cook a 5 Star 4 course menu ?

 

New Practical Books: These are mostly about Spagyrics and enough Theory is embedded to give you everything you need.

 

Doing metallic work without sound knowledge is like giving an untrained person a Desert Eagle .50 Cal.

 

I hope you understand what i tried to tell you.

Best wishes

Chris


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#18 BaguaKicksAss

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    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:59 AM

HI!

 

If the temperature can be controlled  it should be fine, iirc you need to stay under 800°C for organic salts.

 

The initial burning should imho not be attempted inhouse or in your furnace.

Do it outside and after that you can take the ashes and work indoor.

 

Long/Short Calcination: Depends what you're trying to do and the material you start with.

Purification through separation of finely ground ashes doesn't take too long.

 

Rose quarz is not a plant therefore you need other temperatures for calcining.

 

Chris

 

Definitely doing it outside, as my roomate just isn't up for the smell and smoke of roasting plants into ash over many hours ;)

 

So I'm guessing my kiln is out too?  Darn.  OK perhaps a cauldron in the backyard?  Under 800 definitely gives me a lot of leeway.  I was going to do some salts of oak wood. 

 

Making the sulfur and mercury of plants was much more doable indoors ;)

 

Fortunately for rose quartz there are specific instructions including temperature.  Now that I have a kiln (for my metalsmithing), I want to try that one out. 

 

Cause I don't already have enough jars around here full of herbs, incenses and tinctures lol. 


"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#19 Michael Sternbach

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:21 AM

Hi!

 

Sooo, you've read many books but couldn't grasp it.

 

Hi!

 

Your somewhat smugly remarks to me (throughout your post) actually tell more about yourself than about me. I'm in good company as it has always been common for aspiring Alchemists to dig around for some time. One of the greatest, Nicolas Flamel, was trying to decipher the Alchemical book he had received for 21 years in vain before he met Abraham the Jew who helped him to finally make some progress. Whether this is historically accurate or not, it's quite a typical story.

 

You also read books, written by guys who themselve where no Alchemists. Sorta like "Alchemy for Dummies by Dummies" ?

 

No, written by people who intelligently and intuitively approached this multi-faceted topic from a number of valid angles. Even though they are not all practical alchemists. Which doesn't mean that they have nothing to say on Alchemy's philosophical, psychological and historical aspects. I think before delving into the practical art, it's useful to have a sound understanding of its context.

 

"However, as far as I figured out so far, there are two major methods employed by a substantial number of advanced practitioners:"

 

You are neither!

 

Did I say I am? Would I have started this thread if I were?

 

It looks like you're looking for a recipe on how to make the stone in simple terms.

 

Nope. I am hoping that at best somebody who knows something valuable about the topic would be kind enough to share it with me.

 

Doesn't work that way, you have to do practical fundamental training and not advanced (metallic) work.

 

Well, I have quite a lot of experience with Spagyrics (even though I don't manufacture them myself). I also have training in laboratory techniques. The advice to start out by making herbal remedies I have heard before, and it's probably generally a good suggestion. Even though historically speaking, by no means all supposedly successful adepts went about their endeavour this way.

 

If you take the available literature you can categorize them roughly:

 

Philosophical and Theoretic - Full of Allegories and Symbols, if you are an Adept everything will be clear, as a beginner reading them is like sowing seeds. Do it long and often and maybe something will grow. If you think you understood something you need to test it, only Knowledge + Experience will show you the way.

 

I think I have in fact been "sowing the seeds" so far. Translating my ideas to a testable laboratory format, however, seems difficult in light of the gaps. Nevertheless, thanks - I consider this encouragement to be the most useful part of your post.

 

Old Practical Books: These are often simple recipebooks, but if you don't know ho to cook how would you prepare a meal ? and what makes you think you can cook a 5 Star 4 course menu ?

 

I guess you could call some of the works by Libavius, Tancke and Becher "recipe books". Most of the books, while treating practical Alchemy, at best contain "recipes" encoded in allegorical language. What's wrong with studying master cooks even if you are a beginner?

 

New Practical Books: These are mostly about Spagyrics and enough Theory is embedded to give you everything you need.

 

That's is what I'm already quite familiar with as I said. Thus this query.

 

Doing metallic work without sound knowledge is like giving an untrained person a Desert Eagle .50 Cal.

 

Thanks - no danger that I would hurt myself by your "advice". :P

 

I hope you understand what i tried to tell you.

 

I hope the same.

 

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts.

 

Michael



#20 BaguaKicksAss

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    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:26 AM

I am happy to see that my thread finally got some momentum. :)

 

I collected and read many books on Alchemy written from different perspectives, including secondary as well as primary literature. However, it is very difficult to arrive at a coherent picture, especially as far as the practical art is concerned, safe for some introductory works into 'Vegetable Alchemy'. Of course, Alchemy has always been notorious for its obscurity and lack of a terminology and symbolism common to most practitioners. Some scholarly efforts have been made by contemporary academics like Lawrence M. Principe and William R. Newman to figure out what the Alchemists of yore were actually doing in their laboratories. While some of their conclusions are illuminating, they still provide only a rather fragmented view, at best. Even how and with what material to start the Great Work is far from unambiguous.

 

However, as far as I figured out so far, there are two major methods employed by a substantial number of advanced practitioners:

 

The Wet Path

 

This starts with manufacturing a somewhat elusive Spirit of Wine and a preparation of lead acetate. The principal text is Johann Seger Weidenfeld's "The Secret of the Adepts". In modern times, it was attempted by Alexander von Bernus.

 

The Dry Path

 

This starts with manufacturing a star regulus of metallic Antimony. It is also called the Flamel way and was followed by such famous Alchemists as Eirenaeus Philalethes and Sir Isaac Newton.

 

The details of the practice of either path still elude me, however. If you have anything to share on them, I invite your comments. Alternatively, feel free to PM me.

 

Thanks.

 

Michael

 

Bartlett teaches about working with antimony a lot in his class apparently: https://www.spagyric...h-november-10th

 

So what is spirit of wine and lead acetate good for?  In other words what is the goal for making such things?  Same question for the antimony ;)

 

All I have learned so far was what a sulfur, mercury and salt was, and how to make them (if you don't have a roomate lol).  Also how to make a stone with salt.... as for prep for stones with a "salt".  Also was told about various advanced stones concepts. 


  • Michael Sternbach said thanks for this
"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#21 BaguaKicksAss

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    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:28 AM

Sooooo I have a setup to keep the tinctures and etc. at body temperature for however many days or weeks.... but always wondered about that whole bury the various preparations under manure bit.  Is there some reason for this aside from just keeping them at the right temp?  I also noticed that most of the time you also bury them in the ground, under the manure. 

 

Did most old alchemists have cows too? ;)


  • Ocean Form said thanks for this
"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#22 BaguaKicksAss

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  • Interests:"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:37 AM

So what is "mercury" as outlined in most medicinal alchemical recipes pertaining to medicines? ;)  Does this change from country of origin of the writings/recipes?  Some folks claim there is a process by which they are able to make the mercury (and cinnabar for that matter) non-toxic (I don't understand alchemy enough to understand how they go about this), while other folks state that those terms mean other substances entirely...


"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#23 Asmo

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 12:09 PM

@Michael

"Did I say I am? Would I have started this thread if I were?"

 

Actually Michael, your first post implied that you're a beginner, paraphrased by your question "Where do I start? :wacko: "

 

I gave you the information how to start and enough material for the next few years.

 

In your next post you tell us that you already have knowledge and only need a few details on the most advanced work in Alchemy.

 

I sincerly believe that my first post was nicely formulated and helpful for a beginner in this art.

My second post aka. 'my smudgy remarks' were simply brutal honesty.

 

From "Where do i start" to questions about aquiring the red stone ? if you are honest with yourself you can't really blame me for my honesty :P you digged your own grave.

 

Concerning the books and your experience with Spagyrics.

Let me tell you a story about Bob. Bob is a very intelligent guy. He read a lot of books about driving he also loves the experience as co-driver. So he concludes he must be ready for HighSpeed Racing ...

 

I hope you got a driving license and understand this allegory. You are trying to learn an art here, so please go to driving school first.

 

If you have any question ask, i will do my best to give you an helpful answer.

 

But let me give you a last warning, if you're proceeding with metallic work the chances that you will create something are very slim, if you actually manage to create something the chances that it is either toxic or will get you in to serious trouble are very high.

 

Chris

 

 

 



#24 Asmo

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 12:30 PM

@BKA

 

I was going to do some salts of oak wood. 

 

Making the sulfur and mercury of plants was much more doable indoors ;)

 

Keep it simple, get an iron bbq put the wood in it and let it burn. You can use the time and meditate on the fire element. :D

 

All I have learned so far was what a sulfur, mercury and salt was, and how to make them (if you don't have a roomate lol).  Also how to make a stone with salt.... as for prep for stones with a "salt".  Also was told about various advanced stones concepts. 

 

You don't "make" the salt, salt is one of the three principles. You seperate and purify them in Spagyrics in Alchemy you also help them in their evolution. You can have a finished product that is wholly composed of distilled water and there is still "salt".

.

Sooooo I have a setup to keep the tinctures and etc. at body temperature for however many days or weeks.... but always wondered about that whole bury the various preparations under manure bit.  Is there some reason for this aside from just keeping them at the right temp?  I also noticed that most of the time you also bury them in the ground, under the manure. 

 

Did most old alchemists have cows too? ;)

 

Using manure is a cheap and easy way to a constant heat source.

 

So what is "mercury" as outlined in most medicinal alchemical recipes pertaining to medicines? ;) 

The 2nd principle :) There are determined Mercury and undetermined. You can make the determined Mercury from the specific plant you like to use.

 

 

Chris


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#25 FraterUFA

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:59 PM

Would making plant or oak salts, using my metalsmithing metal melting furnace (not yet used) or my kiln, still work? 

 

Too hot. You need to keep it under 1000C, 750-850C is best. 


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#26 FraterUFA

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 02:06 PM

I gave you the information how to start and enough material for the next few years.

 

Knowing full well that without the key, he'd be spinning his wheels for years... 

 

But he didn't ask the right question now, did he? :-)

 

Fr. UFA


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#27 BaguaKicksAss

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    老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
    - from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

Posted 10 November 2014 - 02:31 PM

Too hot. You need to keep it under 1000C, 750-850C is best. 

 

I can set my melting furnace or my kiln at any temperature I like.  Well I think 350 might be the lowest. 


"Lao Zi said: Great people are peaceful and have no longings; they are calm and have no worries. They make the sky their canopy and the earth their car; they make the four seasons their horses and make dark & light their drives. They travel where there is no road, roam where there is no weariness, depart through no gate".
老子曰:大丈夫恬然無思,澹然無慮,以天為蓋,以地為車,以四時為馬,以陰陽為禦,行乎無路,遊乎無怠,出乎無門。
- from Wen Zi (Tongxuan Zhenjing) 《通玄真经》, 5th century BC

#28 FraterUFA

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 03:26 PM

Hi Chris,

 

Hi!

 

You criticized the information and the man who wrote it, but you don't reveal what's wrong :)

 

I provided a level of detail appropriate to the question that was asked. But seeing as you are asking for further detail...

 

What exactly do you think is misleading in his material ?

 

Like many alchemists (including Albertus), Dubuis put some blinds in his work. He gave enough to satisfy the arm chair alchemists and writes convincingly. But after a bit of hands on experimentation using his methods, one quickly hits roadblocks. I believe that those hurdles were intentional, designed for the purpose of encouraging true seekers to get in contact with his school (which is a pretty wise approach, if you ask me).

 

The ineffectiveness of maceration extraction, use of Soxhlet extractors, and incomplete advice given with the solve et coagula method are three areas of technical misinformation that come to mind for starters.

 

My favorite though is the part in the spagyrics lessons where he goes into why you shouldn't use store bought materials (I think he was referring to potassium carbonate, I don't have the lessons in front of me right now to confirm) and then 1-2 pages later instructs the student to go to the store and buy it. 

 

He also advises that dead plants can be used as the subject for the elixirs. And technically, he's right... the dead plants won't give any better results than using live ones! Someone reading with a critical eye will question this based on his discussion in S7 about cut herbs having lost their signature. And any gardener/farmer/enologist with a few years experience should instantly recognize the truth about the life force present in dried vs. live plants.

 

 

Why are the 7 planetary elixirs/tinctures a sledgehammer approach ?

 

Because it's a crude extraction that Albertus apparently invented for the purpose of teaching basic lab skills (and it is valuable in that regard). The theory behind it is nonsensical however. Take Mercury, for instance. How is ethanol the universal mercury of the plant kingdom when ethanol does not naturally occur in the plant kingdom, and furthermore, it is an animal by-product?

 

Ethanol has its uses but it is not the universal mercury of the plant kingdom.

 

Our stone is one thing, to which we add nothing, nor take anything away, only removing that which is superfluous.

 

There are easier, faster, better approaches to producing plant quintessences. 

 

 

Which of his theories did he not test? 

 

His theories about the correspondences (and subsequent practices) of the seven tinctures to the days, planets, and sephiroth. Are we really only going to have "water experiences" on Mondays? Martial experiences on Tuesdays? Hmmm... 

 

I mean, that is an interesting theory... but the Tree of Life is ultimately a model of the inner world. Like many occultists, Dubuis mistakes it for outer reality. This hasn't to my knowledge been satisfactorily proven by anyone (yet... though I know of at least one person investigating it). 

 

He takes it a step farther and claims a correspondence between dreams which occur on the same days of the week. Perform this exercise regularly for an extended period of time and ask yourself honestly if your experience confirms it. This is more of the typical French cultural tendency to take systems thinking to a absurd extreme and it is a reach.

 

We could go into his advice on astrology as well, though I suspect people will start throwing tomatoes at me if I go into this one.

 

An alternative to his model is the Paracelsian concept of the plant kingdom existing in a type of hierarchy, with certain plants being more evolved and having superior properties to others. This does have experimental support.

 

 

Can't really see the disorganization, care to explain further ?

 

The lessons are disorganized to an extreme.  This is pretty much self-evident and it makes me question if you've actually read them seriously. 

 

An example: the first experiment is detailed in the early lessons (2-4, if memory serves). But Dubuis doesn't get into a discussion on this until lesson 26.

 

Descriptions and variations of equipment are scattered throughout multiple lessons, often separate from information on the practical use of same.

 

The various methods discussing the plant stone are shotgunned throughout many different lessons (24, 26, 29...)

 

Lessons on the vegetable mercury are scattered throughout... 29, 31, and Minerals 7 just to name a few.

 

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of good info here. But the lessons seem to be constructed almost as if he transcribed them over time through someone else.

 

A little editing and re-organization turns what is a mediocre effort into something truly magnificent. Seeing this ends all argument.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that your elixirs don't do much, but you don't want to blame that fact on anybody but yourself do you ? ;)

 

This is a possibility I addressed elsewhere. Having recreated the elixirs under the eye of someone more experienced, it is far more likely that either:

 

A) my vibration is already too high and so these elixirs don't have an effect on me, or...

B) The Albertus/Dubuis basic elixir approach does not have an alchemical effect

 

Again, I do recommend the PON lessons as a reference but my most blunt, honest assessment is that these lessons are not going to turn anyone into a genuine alchemist.

 

Best,

Fr. UFA


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#29 Gemstone

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 12:27 AM

"Israel Regardie & The Philosophers Stone" by Lisiewski is a great book.

It gives the history of Albertus and his school. The book also explores the relationship between Albertus, Regardie and Lisiewski and the advanced work they delved into. For example the creation of The Homunculus.

It contains practical instructions in lab work, especially the plant stone.

Overall a great read!

 

http://www.amazon.co...losophers stone


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#30 Asmo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 02:58 AM

Hi FraterUFA,

 

 

Knowing full well that without the key, he'd be spinning his wheels for years... 

 

But he didn't ask the right question now, did he? :-)

 

:D

 

Hi Chris,

 

 

I provided a level of detail appropriate to the question that was asked. But seeing as you are asking for further detail...

 

 

Like many alchemists (including Albertus), Dubuis put some blinds in his work. He gave enough to satisfy the arm chair alchemists and writes convincingly. But after a bit of hands on experimentation using his methods, one quickly hits roadblocks. I believe that those hurdles were intentional, designed for the purpose of encouraging true seekers to get in contact with his school (which is a pretty wise approach, if you ask me).

 

The blinds he put in there are deliberately and he wrote about that iirc in vol 2 of spagyrics.

Originally these whole scripts where a distance study course for LPN members. You could see who is doing the work because they would hit roadblocks and ask or they would find a solution depending on their depth of understanding. There was a kind of master student relationship embedded in this way. If it would have been a book, i wouldn't I like his approach :)

 

My favorite though is the part in the spagyrics lessons where he goes into why you shouldn't use store bought materials (I think he was referring to potassium carbonate, I don't have the lessons in front of me right now to confirm) and then 1-2 pages later instructs the student to go to the store and buy it. 

 

Can't remember what he wrote exactly either. Those who do the work all by themselves will gain better knowledge and understanding. It's a little bit like seperating the wheat from the chaff.

 

 

He also advises that dead plants can be used as the subject for the elixirs. And technically, he's right... the dead plants won't give any better results than using live ones! Someone reading with a critical eye will question this based on his discussion in S7 about cut herbs having lost their signature. And any gardener/farmer/enologist with a few years experience should instantly recognize the truth about the life force present in dried vs. live plants.

 

Imho , they don't lose their signature, the difference lies in a living plant radiating it's signature outward and a dead plant retaining it. 

 

Take Mercury, for instance. How is ethanol the universal mercury of the plant kingdom when ethanol does not naturally occur in the plant kingdom, and furthermore, it is an animal by-product?

 

It seams that this is a simple question when actually it is not :D

Ethanol is the carrier of the principle of mercury never the mercury in itself.

It doesn't have to occur naturally, nature takes a less pure way to do the work.

The art takes a shortcut in seperating and purifying the principles.

We have (to stay at the current example of the universal mercury of the plant kingdom) the volatizing and the fixing mercury in every plant. But only the mercury of grapes is universally usable.

 

 

His theories about the correspondences (and subsequent practices) of the seven tinctures to the days, planets, and sephiroth. Are we really only going to have "water experiences" on Mondays? Martial experiences on Tuesdays? Hmmm... 

 

I mean, that is an interesting theory... but the Tree of Life is ultimately a model of the inner world. Like many occultists, Dubuis mistakes it for outer reality. This hasn't to my knowledge been satisfactorily proven by anyone (yet... though I know of at least one person investigating it).

 

No we don't only have water experiences on Mondays :) The Etz Chiim is the simplest Glyph but its everexpanding. It may be correct to say that on a Sunday morning in the first hour the influence of the sun is at it's peak and it maybe a good idea to take a tincture/elixir at this hour because it may be easier to get an awareness of this energy. But it's only a dominating factor for a short amount of time.

 

We could go into his advice on astrology as well, though I suspect people will start throwing tomatoes at me if I go into this one.

I won't throw anything at you :D

 

 

An alternative to his model is the Paracelsian concept of the plant kingdom existing in a type of hierarchy, with certain plants being more evolved and having superior properties to others. This does have experimental support.

 

More evolved should mean more in balance. Grapes should be the most in balance therefore you can take the mercury from grapes and use it on the whole plant kingdom.

 

 

The lessons are disorganized to an extreme.  This is pretty much self-evident and it makes me question if you've actually read them seriously. 

 

An example: the first experiment is detailed in the early lessons (2-4, if memory serves). But Dubuis doesn't get into a discussion on this until lesson 26.

 

That serves a purpose imho. I'm looking for the right Allegory here but i don't know a good one -.-

 

Let say you want to purify and strenghten Tiphareth. Lets look at a few availablve alchemical options.

 

Veg. Tincture

Veg. Elixir

Cirrculatum Minor

Vegetable Stone

Metallic. Tincture

etc etc etc.

 

If you take a veg. tincture the effect is minimal but it's there. You proceed through the ranks and everything gets more purified and strengthend. If you don't do it that way you can seriously hurt yourself in the process.

 

 

Descriptions and variations of equipment are scattered throughout multiple lessons, often separate from information on the practical use of same.

 

The various methods discussing the plant stone are shotgunned throughout many different lessons (24, 26, 29...)

 

Lessons on the vegetable mercury are scattered throughout... 29, 31, and Minerals 7 just to name a few.

 

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of good info here. But the lessons seem to be constructed almost as if he transcribed them over time through someone else.

 

A little editing and re-organization turns what is a mediocre effort into something truly magnificent. Seeing this ends all argument.

 

I know what you are meaning, think of it that way. If i would write a book where i state everything no secrets. (Obviously i'm not able to do that.) How many would work their way through it and how many would skip to the last chapter ? The information maybe not in a neat order but in a way that sows the seeds and let them mature before new information is added to it.

 

A reorganized version would be great for someone who actually did the work. For students in a distance learning course not so. Btw if you have a reorganized version i'd really like to have it :D :D :D

 

This is a possibility I addressed elsewhere. Having recreated the elixirs under the eye of someone more experienced, it is far more likely that either:

 

A) my vibration is already too high and so these elixirs don't have an effect on me, or...

B) The Albertus/Dubuis basic elixir approach does not have an alchemical effect

 

Again, I do recommend the PON lessons as a reference but my most blunt, honest assessment is that these lessons are not going to turn anyone into a genuine alchemist.

 

Best,

Fr. UFA

 

Actually very possible that you are purified enough for the next step :D

As everything we take in has an alchemical effect (not necessarily a purifying) i can assure you they work :D but not in the most efficient way possible and that's for good!

 

 

Best whishes

Chris

 

 

 


  • FraterUFA said thanks for this

#31 rex

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:01 AM

 
Knowing full well that without the key, he'd be spinning his wheels for years... 
 
But he didn't ask the right question now, did he? :-)
 
Fr. UFA


Anything to do with the secret fire without which nothing can be accomplished? : )

#32 Zhongyongdaoist

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:55 AM

Anything to do with the secret fire without which nothing can be accomplished? : )


Nothing whatsoever to do with that and don't mention it again.
 

It seams that this is a simple question when actually it is not :D
Ethanol is the carrier of the principle of mercury never the mercury in itself.


This is why I wrote this:
 

The purpose of the above is to stimulate questions, not to provide answers and speaking of questions, here's one, why is Brandy called a distilled spirit? And yes, I do know why.


and also why this is applicable:
 

Again a return to the plant analogy can be useful. When you plant an acorn it grows into an oak. In the process it develops many aspects which change as it realizes its potential. If you plant an acorn and a lime tree grows, that would be a transformation. If you plant an acorn and horses sprout from the ground, well now that would be a real transformation!

It is also interesting to think about the complement to transformation, which is transubstantiation. In the Roman Catholic interpretation of the sacrament of communion, the form of wine and a bread wafer remain the same, but the substance underlying them supposedly changes from ordinary "corruptible" hyle into the incorruptible body of Christ. Whether this actually happens in a Roman Catholic Mass or not is an interesting question, but whether it does or not, the idea of transubstantiation is quite an interesting one to add to your list of things to contemplate.

 
In a plant sunlight becomes sugar, sugar transubstantiates to wine, wine transubstatiates to vinegar. Same form different substance. Same function different "menstrum", put some sugar on your strawberries out comes the lovely juice, it also serves as a "conserve", and old name for jam or jelly, put some alcohol on an herb and out comes the "sulphur" of the plant, it also serves as a preservative, put some vinegar on a plant and out comes its "soul", vinegar also serves as a preservative. One hates to point out the relevance of Aristotle and the Roman Catholic Church to all of this, but it is there.

Reference to the context from which my quotes are taken is recommended.
Donald
aka Zhongyongdaoist


'It is better for us that there should be difference of judgment, if we keep charity: but it is most unmanly to quarrel because we differ'

'Nothing spoils human Nature more, than false Zeal ... because I may be Mistaken, I must not be dogmatical and confident, peremptory and imperious. I will not break the certain Laws of Charity, for a doubtful Doctrine or of uncertain Truth'

'... I oppose not rational to spiritual; for spiritual is most rational: But I contradistinquish rational to conceited, impotent , affected CANTING ...'

All by Benjamin Whichcote, 17th Century English Theologian, quoted from Ernst Cassirer's The Platonic Renaissance in England, a much neglected book of Wisdom.

All of that said it remains true that:

Only the man of virtue knows whom to love and whom to hate. Confucius, Analects 4.3




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