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[HHC Study] Hua Hu Ching Chapter 24


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#1 Mal

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:06 PM

Subtle awareness of the truth of the universe should not be regarded as an achievement. To think in terms of achieving it is to place it outside your own nature. This is erroneous and misleading. Your nature and the integral nature of the universe are one and the same: indescribable, but eternally present. Simply open yourself to this.
 
Walker's HHC 24
http://brianbrownewa...m/hua-hu-ching/
 

 
 

 The prince addressed the master once again. “Venerable Teacher, according to the Universal Way, when one attains subtle universal awareness he should not label it an achievement. Is that correct?”
  The master kindly answered, “Yes, this is very true, dear prince. I have received nothing from the attainment of unconditional awareness. Awareness of the integral nature of the universe is indescribable; it can not be contained by any word or name. If a person thinks in terms of attaining something, that means he believes there is something to obtain or achieve external to his own nature. It means that he fails to realize that his own true nature is the integral nature of the universe itself.”
 
Ni's HHC 24
http://www.bookdepos...i/9780937064009


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#2 dawei

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:07 PM

 Subtle awareness of the truth of the universe should not be regarded as an achievement. To think in terms of achieving it is to place it outside your own nature. This is erroneous and misleading. Your nature and the integral nature of the universe are one and the same: indescribable, but eternally present. Simply open yourself to this.

 

Over and over... breaking the 'notions of the mind'...   

 

But here we get greater insight into 'integral nature' as eternally present in us; is us...   but not if one holds to having achieved or understood or accomplished or reached some place...  

 

How to reconcile one is there yet not if they can describe its accomplishment?

 

The awareness may seem to us to happen in 'time' but if we have truly dropped all distinctions and duality then there is no time... no time of the achievement... thus no achievement exists.  Only the mind's idea of it does.

 

"Your nature and the integral nature of the universe are one and the same"



#3 3bob

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:37 PM

I see the saying of "no time" as having some possible problems...

 

not unlike the problems I see with the Buddhist saying of "no-self". 

 

thus one might ask is there ever an eternal moment that exists without Mystery?



#4 3bob

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:54 PM

hmmm, ok no bites.



#5 Marblehead

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:07 PM

hmmm, ok no bites.

No self, no time, no bites.  Life gets that way sometimes.

 

Yes, saying "no time" has just as many problems as does "no self".

 

No bites means you are using the wrong bait.

 

Time is linear dispite its cyclical nature.  Self exists as long as one thinks for themself.

 

There was a time when I was unaware,  At some point in time I became aware.  Now I practice being aware (except most times when I am watching TV).


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YIN-YANG.jpg I reserve the right to change my mind. Anarchy4.jpg



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#6 3bob

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:06 PM

No self, no time, no bites.  Life gets that way sometimes.

 

Yes, saying "no time" has just as many problems as does "no self".

 

No bites means you are using the wrong bait.

 

Time is linear dispite its cyclical nature.  Self exists as long as one thinks for themself.

 

There was a time when I was unaware,  At some point in time I became aware.  Now I practice being aware (except most times when I am watching TV).

 

thanks for the bytes, and those telepathic videos (or TV) make for a hell of a download ;)



#7 Marblehead

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:37 AM

Okay.

 

(What more is there to say after everything has been said?)


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#8 3bob

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:06 PM

perhaps, "behold I make all things new"



#9 Marblehead

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:31 PM

perhaps, "behold I make all things new"

That would be quite a challenge (unless you were Tao).

 

Interesting concept in this chapter though, that we are an integral part of the universe, subject to the same processes as is all of the universe.

 

We are born, we live, then we die.

 

Being born and dying is beyond our control.  But what we do between these two ... shit!  I just ruined my thoughts with concepts that I do not hold.

 

Maybe later my awareness will feel better.


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#10 3bob

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 09:07 AM

That would be quite a challenge (unless you were Tao).

 

Interesting concept in this chapter though, that we are an integral part of the universe, subject to the same processes as is all of the universe.

 

We are born, we live, then we die.

 

Being born and dying is beyond our control.  But what we do between these two ... shit!  I just ruined my thoughts with concepts that I do not hold.

 

Maybe later my awareness will feel better.

 

"We are born, we live, then we die"  How many times is this interpretation as the only reality refuted in the Tao Teh Ching?

(for instance chapter 16)



#11 Marblehead

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:15 PM

No, we don't live forever.  What we are made of (energy) lives forever.  Continuous transmutation.  Can I call it "me" if some of what I become ends up being a worm?

 

I don't go that far.

 

I know, there are those who wish for immortality.  I'm not one of them.


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#12 dawei

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:39 PM

I see the saying of "no time" as having some possible problems...

 

not unlike the problems I see with the Buddhist saying of "no-self". 

 

thus one might ask is there ever an eternal moment that exists without Mystery?

 

Sorry... I missed this...

 

I think it is a matter of perspective; one of time or not of time.  Mountains are mountains and then not mountains, yet again mountains.  Some speak of the before, during or after stage but this is but a 'time' construct itself.

 

I can agree to time if you can agree to no time... and then let's reverse positions...

 

I can disagree to no time if  you can disagree to time



#13 3bob

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:42 PM

I don't know about that Dwaei, concepts are constructs but there is that which is not a construct.



#14 dawei

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:44 PM

Not sure I follow...

 

Can we have 'no construct' yet have time?

 

Or you mean my point is simply not constructive?



#15 3bob

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:52 PM

All I meant was something like linear time takes time, while the eternal moment is not linear.


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#16 3bob

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:14 PM

No, we don't live forever.  What we are made of (energy) lives forever.  Continuous transmutation.  Can I call it "me" if some of what I become ends up being a worm?

 

I don't go that far.

 

I know, there are those who wish for immortality.  I'm not one of them.

 

Since the TTC. obviously points otherwise you are contradicting it. Thus until you have irrefutable proof one way or another   (say on chapter 16)  then an absolute statement from you or anyone else is no different or more true than an absolute statement made by anyone else about anything else along these lines...  thus imo and in such cases an 'agnostic type' position about absolutes or "immortality" is all one can really and honestly claim.  (yes, I know you are not an agnostic per se but what the heck science is agnostic like until it proves otherwise in relation to various subjects).

 

p.s. and even if one has proof it comes down to themselves because certain things beyond the so called normal can not be proven with or to the so called normal.


Edited by 3bob, 24 February 2014 - 06:35 AM.





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